A question for those of you that are familiar with the Technics Kn7000/Kn6500 Sequencer and the Style Composer.

I was able to do so much with every part of a style making just what I wanted, I can not, to my knowledge do this to my Tyros3. There was even a Piano Roll for editing page for the tracks of the Sequencer in Technics. It seems that I can not change the bass lines or edit the drum track or rewrite the accompaniment parts in my Tyros3.

My question – What main stream keyboard can give me the option to work on all parts of a style and sequencer?

Any help will be appreciated, John C.

john give us an example of the sorts of things you would do on the technics step by step and i can tell you if it can be done on the Korg. The korg Pa arrangers are generally recognised as the most flexible fully editable arrangers on the market.

Hi John
If you go along to the support sections of the various manufactures sites, you can usually download the operating manuals, thus you will then be able to see which manufactures keyboard comes closest to the Technics.

Another alternative is to do it externally via a computer, as there are a number of programs out there especially for Yamaha Arrangers, which means you would not need to change from your Tyros 3

Bill

Until now, the ONLY arranger manufacturer that gives the user FULL access to ALL the parameters to make styles without the need of special "software" is Korg, I recently develop with my business partner Juan Miguel Zarate some styles for them, soon to be released.
I did use only a regular SMF sequencer and the keyboard itself.

ALL the others, give you "some" VERY limited Access to parameters like if you want to make a Intro3 in Mayor then another Intro3 in minor tonality, and that goes for the "virtual CV1, CV1b, CV1c, etc" for every variation, fills, Endings, etc, so, until those manufacturers do what APPLE is doing, giving access to programmers all over the world to develop apps, you can guess "who" benefits?, as everybody have seen the Apple adds, they even use that as a tool for marketing....more apps for their products to make them even more appealing.....for some reason, Apple is successful.


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mdorantes

Roland G70

Shows just how uninformed people are..especially products they know nothing about...

Roland arranger keyboards.....going back to the E series ..example E-600...also the VA series and all the G series too...were all sophisticated enough...to make styles from scratch (why you would want to..is another matter.. )...

If one was to understand Korg , Roland etc....you would know Roland detail control of style making exceeds Korg....As an example..Roland's micro edit is still the most detailed edit tool of all the arrangers...

John, I would be very surprised..if you could not originate styles in a similar way on the Tyros....Maybe someone that has "know how" about the Yamaha method will chime in...and not just the misleading comments as above..

On my Kn7000 Technics I was able to edit every part of a style.
1-Change instruments – Ty3 can do.
2-Change volumes of each Accompaniment part. –Ty3 can do.
3-Delete an accompaniment and record my own. –Ty3 can not.
4-Record my own bass line. Ty3 can not
5-Change a drum set – Ty3 can do but very limited.
6-Change the instruments in the drum set and their volumes – Ty3 can not.
And there is no user set of drums.

I was fairly satisfied when I was doing jobs with the Yamaha, I accepted the styles pretty much as is – having so many available styles made the task acceptable. Now in partial retirement I would like to enjoy my keyboard by creating or editing styles and sequencing. Gotta have something to leave my kids. (smile)

I do have the Cakewalk/Sonar sequencing program but I was hoping to do it all with my keyboard as I did with the Kn7000.
Will a Yamaha Tyros3 keyboard allow the changes I make in the Cakewalk/Sonar sequencing program. This is where I run short.

Again, any help is much appreciated, John C.

John Fran is right Roland shines in this department above all.

all of that can be done on the Korg PA products

I have found KORG a bit more tedius vs the ROLAND's makeup tools to edit.....imo.

John, on page 56 of the Tyros3 manual....it states that you can do realtime style recording in the "Style Creator".....the manual is very vague about this..Have you tried using the Style creator?....or is it just more "hype" than service...

John there is a lot of misinformation here.

First I am not a "brand loyalist"- I have recent MOTL boards from Korg, Roland, and Yamaha. And I have created custom styles on all three. I also have the old RA-800 (which has the features of the G-800 in a module), and a Yamaha QY-100 stand-alone sequencer. I rarely find the need to use either.

Roland does have a "piano roll editor" and has some handy functions to substitute drum sets, etc. But by and large the style composer is NOT as sophisticated as Korg's or Yamaha's. For example, you cannot specify whether the arranger should retrigger a sustained note on the accompaniment track if the chord is released and played again later in the measure. K and Y both allow you to specify this. Just look at the number of pages in the manual devoted to style creation and you will see that Korg and Yamaha have put a lot more thought into it (Look up NTT, NTR, RTR, etc. Roland has the "Alteration" parameter but that's about it.)

The Korg is very flexible but it took me a while to get my head into their operating system. For example, Korg allows you to have different style patterns for six different types of chords. However it is not required to make the pattern different for each type of chord. Generally the Korgs (beginning with the addition of the "fixed" interval type on the PA-800) matches or exceeds the Yamaha feature for feature in style creation.

On the Tyros, you can definitely delete an accompaniment and re-record it from scratch. You can also modify the bass line. However you cannot do this and re-save it as a FACTORY style. What you can do, is copy the factory style to a user style. Then you can to whatever you want. You can even "morph" styles-- build a custom user style by taking the rhythm from one factory style and combining it with the bass line from another, etc. Then you can still edit the resulting product.

There are certain functions the Yamaha sequencer lacks, and it is true that some special style features (such as a different intro for a minor chord) are only accessible by using a 3rd party "CASM" editor on your PC. But I have done this and it's not difficult.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but just because something is posted on the Internet doesn't mean it's true! When in doubt, download the manuals, or go to a nearby store and see for yourself what can be done. Most of these boards are so deep, it's not a question of "whether" it does something, but "how".
Hope this helps,
Ted

Edit: Although I have not used one, based on the manual, it appears that the Ketron SD5 is also quite flexible in creating and customizing styles. -Ted

[This message has been edited by TedS (edited 06-18-2010).]

Ted I don't understand why an accompaniment sound needs to re trigger or not the sustain..

Are you referring to a real time sustained tone in the arranger chord area?

Give me an example of what you would need this for..

That said, if there is a command or an advent..Roland G70 will allow you to turn on or off at any interval of a style in any division...(microscope)..
Also the G70 uses an "auto" hold , besides the standard on/off for each real time parts..
Help me understand your point...

Ted are you aware..Roland top models allow you to program 54 different patterns per style....How sophisticated is that?..

Your last statement is very true..it is how it does it....and maybe since it took a long time for you to get the handle of a Korg....maybe you are selling the Roland short...

Don't worry pretty soon Diki will straighten all this out for sure just wait and see!

Fran, Diki agrees with me (and what higher authority is there?) On Rolands, anyway.
http://roland-arranger.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=38&topic=433.0
http://roland-arranger.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=38&topic=1165.0
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/019994.html

This comes up with orchestral music, film scores, traditional liturgical music, etc. where there are a lot of sustained pad-type sounds, changes in the time signature, or when you just need to play rubato.

The T3 style "Ethereal Movie" that everyone was talking about a few months ago would be an example of this. When I first got my E-50 I tried very hard to make a style like this. I succeeded (sort-of), but the results were dependent on which voice I used. (See my original post on roland-arranger.com)

Please look at the manuals. Yamaha's Style File Format (SFF) going all the way back to the 1997 PSR-730, has a lot more parameters in the style creation section to determine what the machine will do to your original source pattern. Most of the time you will not need all of them (and some of them I will probably NEVER use!) Korg added some new options in this area starting with the PA-800, and might be the best as of now.

Yamaha can give you more than the obvious 15 patterns per style. But if you want different patterns for major and minor chords for example, you have to use a 3rd party tool (CASM editor) to access that part of the style file.

O/T- Fran will you be playing anywhere near the Jersey Shore in July?
Thanks,
Ted

Ted here is the band website with our schedule...We are always at the Jersey shore..year around..
www.justintimeband.com

Fran, I am talking CURRENT models...no Jurassic models.....The G70 is discontinued, so is the E 80.

So, do not live in the PASS.
Inform yourself on the current models..

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mdorantes

Without the "past"..there is no future...

The G70 still to today does things many other "NEWER UNITS" cannot .......for starters the Makeup/Micro tools for editing are far above anything out there....being able to edit EVERY piece of kit in a drumset down to the little nuances and timbers is great to create that special sound you want.. and a great sequencer with so many features also......the Voc Harmonizer is in many ways superior to anything Yamaha has produced. as a Yamaha player I really hope they up the game on their KB Harmonizers in the future....

Jurassic models?......newest is NOt always the best

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-19-2010).]

Thank you Donny

Some of you people need to check your statements and knowledge of certain machines...
some statements in here are laughable, if you are a good player it doesnt make you
a know it all recording engineer, good luck.

Your very welcome Bernie enjoy your G70 its a super arranger.. don't let the egotists get you down ....