Well Don...I'm not going to lose a friend over an Audya or Motif XF...I guess I am just disgusted with Ketrons way of doing business & their laxadaisy tactics in regards to supporting their customers....that's why I haven't bought another Ketron product since I got rid of my SD1....the Audya is a fine arranger KB, and as you know i was there with you in LA when it was pre demoed for us to see and and & it was impressive, but is it the best one?....not in my opinion for my needs.
The New Motif XF is really amazing although I guess it wasn't fair to compare the two also, sorry about that, they are TWO DIFFERENT INSTRUMENTS...as far as the Italian statement, then I'm really embarrassed if I had to rely on Ketron to represent my American Italian heritage..I hope they get their act together. Meanwhile I'm happy with Yamaha products to make a living.

take care

D.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-10-2010).]

Don, the Motif is NO match at all for the Audya...I wouldn't want a Motif even below dealer cost..the Audya, I would consider..

No Yamaha keyboard can match the sounds of the Audya....

I have not yet heard any keyboard that equals the sound and styles of the Audya..

.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-10-2010).]

no, actually no one answered any questions and no, the problem is not solved. I want an instrument that has the arranger section of the PSR line and the sequencing capabilities, keybed, and sampling features of the Motif.

I have never understood this 'separation' between an arranger workstation like the Tyros and a synth workstation like the Motif or the Korg Triton. There are people who want an arranger only, then there are people who mistakenly think that an arranger is an 'hobbyst instrument with Polka styles on it'
(as if working with styles makes you a bad musician and working with a boring black canvas makes you a good musician)
and they buy a synth workstation (and they strangely feel more professional, go figure).

Then there are the ones like me who don't see things as black and white: a music workstation should have all of it: the arranger section, the sampling , etc.
And there isn't such an instrument. Do you really believe that building a keyboard with both the features of the Tyros and the Motif , would cost as much as a Motif plus a Tyros? I don't think so. They would be sharing the same hardware, for a start, which would keep costs down.
Do you think Yamaha would not sell such a keyboard ?

I would be interested in knowing how many people here would buy such a keyboard, instead of that overpriced Ketron stuff....

Buy both the Tyros and the Motif , problem solved, you say? I don't think so....it's like trying to race two cars at the same time.

I still prefer an instrument like the Tyros to the Motif. The way I see it, a synth-workstation doesn't fit my needs.

For my needs, the Yamaha arrangers are almost perfect, beside the keybed and the slightly underpowered sequencer.



[This message has been edited by arranger_yes_pc_no (edited 08-10-2010).]

DNJ, Oh no, I hope I didn't say anything that might make you think I was angry at you. I can't help it when you're wrong and I have to straighten you out a little.
I am far from happy with Ketron's support, but I suppose that's part of the package.
They seem to be finally catching up.
DonM

I was saying a few years ago that arrangers and workstations would "meld" into one beast and in fact we see this happening to a "small" degree with some workstations currently on the market. For instance, the Motif ES/XS/XF utilizes "arpeggio's" that follow chord'ing so in effect you have a "rhythm" based accompaniment on a Workstation keyboard, albeit, not fully functional like you would experience on a middle or top of the line arranger keyboard of course.

The main problem and hindrance to this "melding", in my opinion, is the fact that traditional workstation keyboardists aren't really thrilled when you talk about "arranger" functions because in the past arranger keyboards denoted "toys" and NOT for serious musicians - nor their features of auto-accompaniment, etc., and also because of their "lack" of professional features.

Changing the mindset of traditional workstation keyboardists is like pulling teeth, in my opinion, and it may be many more years before we see a complete "melding" of the two, if indeed we see it at all. Another reason is the fact that keyboard manufacturers see two distinct keyboard markets with two distinct type of players i.e. professional and home hobbyists and because of these differences keyboard manufacturers e.g. Yamaha, Roland, Korg, etc., profit financially to a greater degree by serving both groups separately as opposed to selling a workstation/arranger keyboard to everybody, where one group may not want arranger functions on a workstation keyboard, or vice versa, and because of it overall sales could suffer on the manufacturer's end if everything was melded into one keyboard.

If the personal discrepancies between the two groups were ever reconciled and resolved then perhaps Yammie and the others might see an economic benefit in making a fully blown professional "workstation arranger" in every sense of the word. But as long as the two distinct market groups remain 'divided' Yammie and others will continue to market to those two groups separately, in my opinion, and with different keyboards according to their individual (group) needs i.e. arranger functions for arranger players and workstation functions for professional players. Even though there are many many arranger keyboardists who do indeed play in a professional capacity. Although that doesn't seem to sway Yamaha and the others very much apparently.

The Big Three still charge much more money for top of the line arrangers vs. workstations even though many professional workstation features are, in many cases, absent from the top of the line arrangers. In my opinion, they literally sucker retirees into spending more for "less" and laugh all the way to the bank - knowing full well they are getting away with highway robbery, in my opinion, even at the expense of older people's gullibility. Not all older people of course. With age comes wisdom (or so goes the theory anyway), albeit, with more excess 'money' comes a tendency to spend it in a more leisurely and bountiful manner - just what Yamaha, Korg, and Roland, hope too. Retiree's and older people, in many cases, have scads more money to throw around indiscriminately so "easy come, easy go" might be the guideline, with many of them not seeming to mind that much, if at all. You know... people like Fran and DonM (who are filthy rich) and don't have a problem tipping waitresses with hundred dollar bills... even when the service is bad. Now THAT'S rich! lol ha ha ha.

All the best,
Mike

PS: Just kidding you two.

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 08-10-2010).]

Don you know "I love ya man"!! maybe I was a little out of line ...but I'm so very passionate about music I hate to see any musicians get screwed over...I just hope Ketron improves their work ethics, support,service and availability in the market place...and who knows? I myself would like to tryout the new Audya 61 also somewhere or maybe I have to go up North to CT to see Frankieve with my body guard Fran, and get Steve M & Tony M to go out for ITALIAN FOOD also.. when he gets them in the store soon, or shoot over to AJ's lab again in Philly ....anyway enjoy what you play!!

My take on this is that it's up to the manufacturers to re educate the synth players on what they would be missing out on if they produced a synth that had both arranger and full snth qualities. Lets face it instead of having to make 2 or a number of models it makes perfect sence to make one that does it all.

I mean I dont use every function on my arrangers or synths, but that's not to say I dont like the fact that they have got those extra options if I want to use them at a later date.

As I said synth players need to grow up, and accept that companies and all factions stand to benefit from such a board, lets hope Roland G has an Arranger component in the background!!! you never know, looks as Tyros is the same old lets suck em in to a few more extra's type release, so the balls in Roland and Korgs corner now to step up to the mark.

Roland is SO close. I'm hoping they will regain some interest in the top-end arranger market.
Meanwhile, somebody make an offer on my E80. It's on ebay.
I'll negotiate. Trade for a new Lincoln or food stamps.
I love it, but I ain't gonna lug it around much.
DonM