Think again !!

Why should kids today learn how to play instruments when they see see this kind of thing every day.......too hard to learn to play......but DJ'ing is easier is what they say....scary at this rate that in the future little by little it will be all gone and DJ'ing will be KING!!!! You dont see crowds like this for someone playing a Arranger Kb!...let's face it Live is pre computer age....and it was the norm and was able to survive admirably....but ever since the advent of High Tech Computers music in every way has taken many paths with no end in sight splintering all genres so much that there can never be one major audience for any type ever again. I'm glad to be the last generation to have experienced both in one life time.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-07-2010).]

I don't know about Jersey, but down here there's a waiting list for the kids trying to find music instruction. Every independent music store here offers music lessons for the instruments they sell and the kids are waiting in line to sign up for them. I know one store that has 25 instructors and the store has 10 rooms dedicated to teaching. Those rooms are packed from 10 a.m. till 9 p.m. six days a week. Most of the DJs here have been slowly but surely replaced by KJs, and a lot of KJs have been pushed aside by OMBs. Guess it depends on where you live.

Cheers,

Gary

Gary i would bet the clubs in downtown Baltimore are fist pumping DJ music and 90% of all weddings are DJ also.....doesn't matter where you go....as for these crooks who run these music schools baiting these poor kids into lessons and leading them on little by little each week just to make money is pathetic....the world musically has changed dramatically no way around it.
These kids are doomed to a world out there that is a mess and getting worse day by day.....so you learn to play a flute, accordion, tuba and then what? 99% of all philharmonic orchestras are Asian you know why...because the take music seriously and study hard to make a career out of it..
look around......OMB's have to find their niche or forget it in a DJ saturated DJ/KJ society out there sorry to say. The sad part people are starting tio accept it as the norm....

Dnj- yes I agree with much of what you are saying. Dj's do pack the clubs that the young people like to go to. But I think a keyboardist (maybe not an arranger player)has the potencial to put on just as good of show as any DJ and can also do all that electonic stuff the kids like too.

I disagree.

I think the reason arranger keyboard performances are not popular is because they are SO boring. The dance section on both the Yamaha T3 and the Korg Pa2x are useless. In addition, most of the OMB performances I have seen live and on youtube are lifeless...

These DJs on the other hand are full of life and energy.

That's the difference.

There is hope. It might be a small segment, but there are still young people out there who understand real music and like it when quality musicians play that music. I was at a birthday party about a month ago for a young guy, twenty-something. Everybody there mostly was 20's and 30's. I had my guitar there upon the request of the guy whose birthday it was. A few hours into the party we started doing Sinatra, Martin, Bobby Darin, Nat King Cole, louis Prima, in addition to a little classic rock stuf. I was totaly amazed how many of the people there knew that music, could sing along with parts of it, requested certain songs. Another guy got out a trumpet, and though he wasn't great, he sort of knew the tunes and didn't suck.

Live music still rules here in Nashville. i'm playing a wedding in September as part of an 8-piece western swing band. And we're actually being paid well to boot. Maybe that's why I moved here; an escape to one of the last outposts where live music still reigns and the DJ is the small minority.

I think it depends a lot on the type of venue and the audience you are playing too. Most of the places my band plays only have live bands and no DJs so we don't even compete with DJs. Not that they aren't out there, but live bands generally arent hired at clubs that use DJs. It's another world completely.

Nigel just the fact that DJ's are out there in clubs, weddings, etc, etc .. creates competition and each takes the place of live music...the ratio is overwhelming now.

"Why should kids today learn how to play instruments when they see these kinds of things everyday ?"

The commercial aspect aside, what a cultural calamity it would be. The pure joy of accomplishing a worthwhile goal and simply making music with your own instrument would be lost.

I certainly hope not.

Bernie

''These DJs on the other hand are full of life and energy''


Of course they're full of life and energy because they dont have to do anything that requires real concentration so they just dance to the music like everybody else !

Then again, there are some, perhaps many, who view the use of Arranger Keyboards as yet another dumbing down as well.

Perhaps the DJ is but another level of the same thing.

As far as real music and real musicians go, it is still the case that the way to get to Carnegie Hall is to Practice, Practice, Practice.

Donny,

Most of the clubs in Baltimore's Fells Point and Little Italy areas use live bands and OMBs. They will, on rare occasions have a DJ or KJ, but it's indeed rare.

For the big wedding outfits, such as Martin's, which are massive complexes that do up to a half-dozen weddings at a time, they give the bridge and groom (and parents) an option of live band or DJ. A significant percentage go for the live band.

As for the DJ being lively, well, I guess it all depends upon the venue. The folks that lease out the halls for weddings, parties, etc.. all tell me that when a DJ or KJ shows up, the first thing he does is usually get out of his tuxedo jacket and tie, then head for the bar--all before he even starts setting up his equipment.

Now, for the music teachers at the independent stores. The only one I have any first hand knowledge of is Music Land in Bel Air, Maryland, which does an outstanding job. They primarily teach middle and high-school kids how to play, and every person that I know that sent their children there to learn was very satisfied with the instructors and what their kids accomplished. My daughter, at age 10, learned to play a clarinet in just a few months, and she can still play it very well.

My son, who for three years had his own rock band, is a self-taught guitarist. His fingers move over that guitar neck at lightning speed and he never hits a bad note. His band played a type of music that I couldn't stand to hear (grunge) and was booked every night in Baltimore's biggest and most popular clubs several nights a week. The only reason he got out of show biz is because he got tired on the crazies and druggies.

Like I said, things must be different in Jersey. The DJs have not cornered the market here, and hopefully, they never will.

Gary

That's been going on for years ...anything that supposedly takes away work for a band by a OMB or so called talented Arranger keyboard artist is frowned upon by the so called "real musicians" in pure jealousy and laziness for them to go with the flow and try to do other things to survive in the music business game versus complaining why they ain't working....nothing new there.

You know this is nothing new. DJs first appeared in discos in the late 70s and also took many jobs away from live bands.

During the 70s the UK Musicians Union tried to block the use of synthesizers in union controlled venues saying that the synthesizer was taking away musicians jobs by imitating other instruments.

Live bands can also point the finger at OMBs as many gigs and weddings etc. can hire a OMB at a lower rate than they would have previously paid for a full live band.

It is simply changing times adapting to new technologies and tastes. It has been that way before and will still be in the future. There really is little to gained by being concerned about it just simply adapt and try to survive. Sorta like a musical version of "Death Of A Salesman" where Willy Loman is a musician

Hip Hop and Electronica are fundamentally digitally contructed forms of music using sequencing and sample loops so can't be performed faithfully live anyway. Even the artists that perform this music live depend on computers provding much of the backing on stage. The wedding reception that chooses to use a hip hop or electronica DJ was never going to hire you to play anyway, your material isn't their taste. So you didn't lose that job to a DJ ... it was never yours to lose. If you see more and more of these jobs being filled by DJs it just means there are more people whose taste isn't something you can satisfy. That simply is life.



[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 08-08-2010).]

A lot of the weddings around these parts are going to DJs too. Many of the folks who are going for DJs are usually looking for a �total entertainment package�, which includes disco/stage lights most of the time, a horrendously loud bass thumping sound system, and a huge variety of song choices. Many of the DJs around here show with a truckload of amps, lights, and many throw in the Karaoke theme as an option for part of the night. Some of the DJs provide �charismatic control� of the event�. Although I attended a wedding recently where the DJ sat at a table w/his laptop and read a book and cruised the �net while working the gig. Yes, times have changed! Like Nigel says�.adapting is the key.

Precisely and my point has been made.

Seems like the DJs are now going to get the same treatment from the Autoaccompaniment Keyboard Players.

And so it goes.


--Mac

Younger crowds want to hear what they hear on teh radio period!! An arranger KB player cannot provide that no way...If you can't provide that somehow you LOST that gig simple as that.....you need to choose your venues wisely & age group, and be good enough and "unique enough" to be IN DEMAND!
They should be looking for you to play not the other way around...if you can do that then your doing it right ....if you have to beg for work there's something wrong.........it's like a good restaurant, if the food is great you always go back and tell your friends to go there too....if the food sux......see ya, no one returns...

Trust me....they are. It's a free-for-all in the tri-state area!

Lucky

Another clipping:

ASBURY PARK, NJ � Brace yourself for the sacrilege: This is no longer Bruce Springsteen�s Asbury Park.

The boardwalk area is no longer the worn boot-heel town of Springsteen�s youth. The Pony has a summer stage, draped in sponsor banners. Wonder Bar is freshly minted in Palace Amusement green, Tilly and all. Fluorescent mood lights illuminate the refurbished Empress Hotel, which for years had mattresses and broken furniture piled on its balconies.

And on this Saturday night, as whispers on the boardwalk said Bruce would make a late-night showing at Wonder Bar, the big draw in town was�.

a Dutch DJ named Tiesto.

�.He was in the electronic cockpit of a sold-out rave at the Paramount, a retinal and tympanic membrane assault of laser lights and synthesized thumps, playing to kids whose parents were teenagers back when Bruce put out "Greetings ..." in 1973.

No, this is not your father�s Asbury Park

Asbury Park & Long Branch are totally renovated with new clubs & restaurants..in fact 2 weeks ago Bruce Springsteen surpisingly dropped by the Stone Pony to jam with a friend on stage for 3 songs WOW!!!
http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_news/new_jersey/bruce-springsteen-stone-pony-20100728-lgf

What I think is so often overlooked here on this forum regarding DJ's is that they're just like any other performer. You have your good ones, and your poor ones. Same can be said for keyboard players.

The problem I notice is that quite a few here have reduced the modern DJ to someone who just essentially presses, START, STOP, PAUSE, and NEXT. That's not the case at all. Many of today's DJ's are actually quite skilled. How many of you guys here can "scratch" and do it well..?? Have you ever tried it? (it's not as easy as it looks). How many of you guys here know how to take ANY song out there..., chop it up.., add your own flavor to it, and turn it into a dance hit? Better yet.., how many here consider themselves skilled enough to even run a modern sampler, turn-table, or groovebox?

Before you guys trash the DJ.., first try and do their job and see if you can keep up. You'd be surprised how many DJ's are REAL musicians too.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 08-09-2010).]

Finally a post that makes sense. Thanks, Squeak.

Always good to hear from you.

Taike

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Bo pen nyang.

Good post Squeak...funny a DJ post brings you out of hiding ....one of my my sons is a very popular "Drums & Bass" style DJ who performs at Mega Raves and Hugh Events in many major cities on the east coast let me tell ya....you better know what your doing when there are thousands of people dancing out there......it takes alot of experience and talent to be successful.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-09-2010).]

There are lots of DJ's here working all the time. In fact, my young son and i have a sound company/DJ operation that concentrates on sound system rentals and DJ work for outside car shows. I only participate by buying equipment and donating the big old stuff I no longer use.

I don't see any competition from DJ's because of the difference in the venues. Mine are upscale restaurants, government agencies, corporate events (an occasional DJ is hired)and horse farm galas.

But, Lexington, Kentucky is a unique market where, lots of times, WHO you know is way more important than how good you are.


Thank goodness for that!


Russ

I'm not a DJ Donny However.., I personally know quite a few DJ's. I've seen DJ skill levels range from the most basic individual who just turns on some lights.., switches CD's and talks in the mic, all the way up to DJ's that could "easily" hang with top keyboard/synth players.

You'd be surprised how many DJ's are actually synth, guitar, and drum players too. If I had a $1.00 for every time I saw a MicroKorg, Moog, R3, Ion, and other well known synths in a DJ's rig.., I'd have retired years ago!

You have to take into consideration the venue as well. How many of you guys here would show up to a Rave.., or "modern" dance crowd with your arrangers to put on a show..?? The arranger keyboard can't cut it for this venue.., and I would even go as far as saying some of the major workstations aren't enough for the job either.

To be a "damn good" DJ you MUST know how to turn a modern sampler "inside out". You have got to be a pro at using one. You also must be extremely familiar with the use of a modern groovebox. You have got to learn how to scratch (and scratch the hell out of a record too). The list just goes on for a good DJ's qualifications.

What I don't understand is why they take so much heat on this forum too. Many here play their gigs with preset keyboard styles or midi files. If you're playing a popular song and have the majority of the song being handled by a style (while also switching from one variation to the next).., aren't you "essentially" DJ'ing to some extent?

Don't forget..., MANY of the DJ's out there (the really good ones) completey chop up a song, remix it.., and manually play solos overtop of the the mix with a synth (WHILE) scratching a record.., triggering various patterns from a groovebox or samples from a sampler.

Like I said.., before you knock what these guys/gals do.., try it for yourself and see if you can keep up. It only "LOOKS" easy.

Sqk

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 08-09-2010).]

Squeak all good points.....there's no getting around the splintered musical world that has evolved in the last 30 years due to the advent of computers and the Internet. Creativeness has flourished big time worldwide, & so has different instruments of all kinds to make Music ...like it or not is not the question. Years ago the whole world listened to the same music...but today with thousands of outlets to be heard by the masses it's a "free for all" of MEGA MAGNITUDES! Turning your nose at what you don't like will not change what has happened, or being an Egotistical Purist as well. I say, try to fit in somewhere, find YOUR Niche, embrace others talents, try to extract and absorb from what you see & hear musically and incorporate it into what YOU do somehow. CREATIVNESS is KING today, love it or leave it, Put it all together for your your own style of multitasking to make todays audiences happy. It's all out there for you to grab......
go for it while you still can



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-09-2010).]

I understand what you are saying but if you look back on the majority of postings in this thread they weren't giving DJs any heat. They were simply talking about losing gigs to DJs. But I totally agree with you about DJ gigs that couldn't be filled by either arranger keyboard players or live bands. We didn't lose those gigs ... we were never a viable candidate for them.



Yep I agree with you but this isn't typical of most suburban DJs. 95% I see in bars don't do much more than talk into a mic and press start on CDs.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 08-10-2010).]

Originally posted by Dnj:
Squeak all good points.....there's no getting around the splintered musical world that has evolved in the last 30 years due to the advent of computers and the Internet. Creativeness has flourished big time worldwide, & so has different instruments of all kinds to make Music ...like it or not is not the question. Years ago the whole world listened to the same music...but today with thousands of outlets to be heard by the masses it's a "free for all" of MEGA MAGNITUDES! Turning your nose at what you don't like will not change what has happened, or being an Egotistical Purist as well. I say, try to fit in somewhere, find YOUR Niche, embrace others talents, try to extract and absorb from what you see & hear musically and incorporate it into what YOU do somehow. CREATIVNESS is KING today, love it or leave it, Put it all together for your your own style of multitasking to make todays audiences happy. It's all out there for you to grab......
go for it while you still can

"Donny.....this was an incredibly insightful observation/commentary. I'm glad you posted it. It started me thinking (where I wasn't thinking before) about how much and how quickly the music has changed around me these past few years. I see that it can be liberating or challenging depending on which road one wants to take. Music, it seems, is like life....constant changes, some slow, some abrupt, but always changing....along with the audiences.

I'm surprised no one else commented on what you wrote here."

Lucky>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Lucky glad you enjoyed the read, just my thoughts......maybe people are a bit busy ...I hope more respond to this topic also...

d.

Up until the early 1990's, there were quite a few wedding reception type bands playing regularly around the central Michigan area. Now, I'd be surprised if there are any - if there's entertainment, it's a DJ. We seldom hang long at such events, if I wanted to listen to CDs at high volumes I'd do it at home.

Great points about finding and maximizing enjoyment and growth in your musical niche. Probably easier for us day-jobbers I suspect. I've moved much more into roots type music these days, your basic blues, honky-tonk, Gospel, and the like. I like it clean, simple, and in the pocket.

I care more about the music itself than how it's made. Anything beyond acapella singing introduces tools to the art, and skill in using those tools is what counts.

Music is like color, there's an endless variety and we all have our likes and dislikes, influenced by individual perception. Keeps things interesting that way.

I think we serve two different masters. There are events where people specifically want a DJ and some where they want an actual musician performing live for their guests.

I know of DJ's in the Dayton area who take their job extremely seriously, attend professional seminars, take outside courses to improve their public speaking and writing skills, etc. These guys pull down a little over 2 grand for the average wedding and they work a lot.

They have tremendous reputations and shouldn't be disrespected by guys like me.

That said, if the client wants someone to actually perform for their guests, a DJ isn't going to merit much consideration.

Like Chas, I'm really happy playing mostly Nursing Homes. I feel the work is important and the other stuff on the calender just pays the bills.

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Bill in Dayton