I love this sound and capability....
Listen to it all the way through....
I'm setting here thinking..how do I get an arranger setup to be able to do this and sound like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16oaGSltUPE&feature=related

Amny ideas?

Thanks,
Lee S.

Get two keyboards, a set of pedals, a MIDI processor to allow more complex setups that arrangers typically allow, then practice night and day for, let's say twenty years or so to be able to play that well...

Simple enough, really (except for maybe that last part!)

Well, maybe...I have 2 keyboards and a pedal board and a PC with lots of MIDI pgms...but I don't think the voicing and sound that is there is on any of our arrangers. I have done some work with that stup and some things are OK...but not that sound. The Stagea uses FM2, AWM2 and voice modeling..no SA or SA2 of course.
Sounds pretty good to me! it's 2004 technology.But you talk about an instrument BORN to play live!!!!

Oh, I think I want to marry her too!

Lee S.

There are a handful of incredible Yamaha style files that are set up just for movie songs. If anyone wants to try them out, let me know and I'll be more than happy to send them to you via Email. Sorry guys and gals, they'll only play on Yamaha boards.

Cheers,

Gary

It's possible to do the same with a Tyros2/3 or even an S910 if you have a lower keyboard, like a Yamaha NP-30 and a decent set of MIDI pedals (at least more than an octave).

I grew up playing Electones (last one was an HX-1), but I prefer having the single keyboard...auto-accompaniment bass lines are so much better than years ago, and you can program your own.

The player featured has obviously spent a lot of time on the instrument.

Ian

There exists a professional quality MIDI file with the exact arrangement heard in the video. We are talking early 90's Roland in-house league.

Maybe she is using it to do the patch changes for her?

It is this probably, play it on a GS or GM/GM2 compatible thing....

http://www.angelfire.com/ak/skatermidi/images/fox.mid

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 09-03-2010).]

The patch changes are done with foot switch. The Stagea has two on one the left and one on the right of the expresssion pedals..totally programmable for lots of functions. And there is a programmable knee lever as well.

I think this instrument is in a different league to any aranger with one 61 note kbd. If you have a decent set of speakers on your PC...listen again to the orchetrial instuments come alive. This is only 2004 technology...can you imagine what they could do now with Sa & SA2 technology included in this same package. She is very talented, and that instrument is very capable.

I guess the sound really gets to me...it is so clear, distinct and you can hear the quality...did you hear that French Horn come alive? And everything. I get a feeling the sound designers spend more $$ and time to do the sampling & programming.

She is using pre-programmed series of reigistration changes triggered by foot switch or knee lever. This we of curse can do on our arrangers.

This keyboard even has horzontal touch...meaning you wiggle your fingers sideways for effects as well as aftertouch which we all know about.

There ae many more performances by her and others on you-tube on the Stagea. (Wersi Abacus Duo deluxe also)

I don't think the organ as we see it here is an old peoples toy as the MFG's thought everyoe felt was the case when they killed the importing of such neat instruments in the US & elsewhere. It still fly's in Japan and other countries. They take their music pretty seriuosly in Japan. Different country, diferent interest and society. Lack of Mfg promotion here?

Ian...I don't think so...but, if someone would come up with something even close to this...I would be impressed. If you listen to Martin demo the T3...he's pretty good and it's one hell of an instrument...but nothing like this...not even close.

I sure would like to find someone here in US to visit that has one...to really check it out. Wander if Steve Deming knows anyone?

Lee S.

Lee,

I play the arranger differently than I did the organ.

I play in a smaller arrangement style, instead of imitating a big orchestra, so the single keyboard is perfect for my needs and the way I like to play.

Also, I have to think of portability and keeping the weight down to 25 lbs is important to me.

For home use, the Stagea would be nice. I play on a friend's D-85 triple manual Electone quite often, and it's lots of fun.

Ian

Donnie,
Thanks, Claudia is superb...and I have a couple of her CD's..BUT this type of organ music is what killed the organ in the USA.

This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaMw63ueoVw&feature=related

is the trype of thing that keeps it alive AND for young people too in Japan and I think other places.

Just listen to the instruments.
Lee S.

Ian,
Yep, I understand and you play very, very well...Your arrangments are super. I always enjoy it when you post one or send me one.

But, this is for my home only, no travel, no got to make a living at it..just for fun.
I don't are how much it weighs...I do care how big it is (No Thomas Palace 3's).

If I could find a Stagea used, at a decent price I would just get it. Sell everything else, PA2XPRO, T2, Kurzweil K2600X, EMU soft synthes, etc.

I have been dissappointed with arrangers...and keep hoping one will be announced to satisfy me...not happening.

Lee S.

oh for goodness sake ! Its not the keyboard that fails to impress. If you had this ladies traing and skills you would create astonishing music yourself on any arranger, any organ, any workstation. Period. if you had an instrumnment like this and could not play it like her it would still sound like a bog standard organ.

Hi Leeboy
A number have been imported into the US as well as Europe (Before the downturn in the economy, there was a dealer in Germany that would import them for you) here are a couple of sites which may be able to put you in touch with an owner in your area.
http://www.electone.com/
http://www.electonesociety.com/index.php?ca=home

The main reason that caused the Electronic Organ decline was the organ manufactures themselves, as when they added all the easy play features, users asked why do I need to learn to play an organ when I can just press a button and play along to it, thus the Arranger (Although the name arranger name didn�t come in till later) came about as the Japanese identified a hole in the market. (You can get more T3 in a container then you can Stagea)

The best upgrade for any arranger is a pedal board and expression pedal, as you can then really go to town. (Most pros add a pedal board and Expression pedal at some stage,or at least they do in Europe and the Far East)

Example:
One of the biggest bugbears of arrangers is that you have to be careful what inversions of chords you use otherwise it plays the wrong chords, this means it is very difficult to get a true flow of chords in the left hand, (And if you try playing counter melody with inversions, even the best fall apart) On Bass helps, but it is still a compromise. With pedals connected (Even if you don�t play bass (Worth learning though) you can use the pedals to control where the arranger goes without having to keep adapting your chords to what the arranger wants. (You�re in control, not the arranger)
The other alternative is to sequence everything, but if you want to vary the backing on the fly (For variation) you�re stumped, as the sequence is fixed.

One thing you can�t deny though is that for the home hobby player who just wants to enjoy playing his favourite songs quickly, the easy play of an arranger is the best thing since sliced bread.

Bill


[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 09-04-2010).]

Spalding1968,
Yes, of course to an extent...

How could you play this on a Hammand B3?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9n4DJmj_SQ

Lee S.

Bill,
I see you talk my lauguage with all this.
Don't get me wrong I love the arranger and what you can do with it.

But, I think one of my compplaints is the sound on arangers...it just does not have it in some ways. They try to build them as cheap as possible, so thy skimp on the samples and programming.

IF you play all pretty fast music you will never hear it...but, like me if ballads, movie, orchestral stuff is what you enjoy then you hear all the bad stuff.

Seems like he organ buyers won't put up with that (from history) so they have better sounds.

I have only played Yamaha & Korg arrangers...so don't know of the others...all of the ones I had...have lots of issues with voice quality. Just play and HOLD each note you will hear lots of variation in vibrato, imbre etc at certainspots in the instrumets range. That is just poor workmanship to save money.

I would like to audition a Wersi Pegasus...to see if I like it. Do you know...can you add a lower kbd & pedals (MIDI is ok it does not have to be Wersi)??

Lee S.

Just wondering. Is it worth spending around Us$16,000 plus import taxes for an instrument with 2004 technology that no one here will ever be able to play like the woman in those YouTube videos?(at least never proven yet).

Watch the Stagea official demo video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpxtlCLwWvA&feature=related

Not enviable at all, specially that awful sax at minute 3:42. Nothing your advanced arrangers can't do.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have one at home if I were rich.

Victor

Diki, Donny and several others here have said over and over again, the "new" instrument is not going to magically turn us into much better players.

I pretty well have to have the latest arranger because of my job, but I'd be perfectly happy with a Tyros2, or an S900/S910 for quite some time...years probably.

Playing a Stagea is an abject lesson in discipline, practise, arranging and creativity, and would require quite an investment in time as well as money.

And as stated above, you're getting 2004 technology...alright if you plan on doing the things I stated above, but not so good if you think it will be the magic bullet, and suddenly blow away all arrangers.

Spalding's posts on another thread that show players using the Tyros2, and G-70 to another level, make it clear, at least to me, that it is the talent, creativity and dedication of the player that makes these instruments speak so well.

Ian

You should keep in mind that what you're actually hearing is the arrangement. The voices (registrations) are merely the enhancement. An EZ-play arrangement of the same song with the same voices won't sound as pleasing. That's something many buyers of organs and keyboards don't seem to understand. They wonder why they're not able to get the same sound as the demonstrator or the demo even though they're using identical styles and voices.

Taike

------------------
Bo pen nyang.

Well...very interesting comments ..all valid.
One thing however to remember...2004 technology is not neccessarly a bad thing OFTEN Mfg's change technology to CUT COSTS not to impove the instrument! A great example is tube amps...they went away...and now there back. nHave ou listened to a old tube radio in a while..so warm, beautiful to listen to, they even put good speakers in back then.

The thing I like about Stagea (Maybe Wersi too) is it is a complete package...no MIDI interfacig, no lets see how to attach the lower so it looks good and works correctly, spending days & days setting up registrations etc.

I have had high end organs in the late 80's...I'm here to tell you they are much better to play than you might think. (Ian you know for one).

I would have to buy a used one.

The fact that it is more $$ is a plus too...people won't put up wih quality issues when they spend that kind of $$.
This kind of instrument is not somethng you trade every time Yamaha, Korg, Roland etc. has a new slightly enhanced model ((emmm, maybe that's why they don't import to USA, anymore)

The arranger and an organ are...two different animals for sure. Just not sure I can be satisfied with the PSR type playing anymore.

If T4 is absolutle wonderful, maybe I'll just add my lower and pedals and decide to be satisfied with it.

I appreciate all the insight from all the different points of view.

Thanks,
Lee S.

Hi Leeboy
Yes you can connect any Midi Keyboard/pedal board to the Pegasus wing, and it also has a dedicated section for pedals so that you don�t have jump through hoops to set it up. (Wersi (Music store) may also re-introduce dedicated pedals in the future, but this is pure speculation at present)
You can download the English brochure here http://www.wersidirect.com/www.wersidirect.com/Pegasus_Wing.html
Hope this helps

Bill

lee.....very enjoyable...would love to see her head too ....but the instrumentation is superb. I am sure she has been playing since a child to be at that caliber. What needs tio be done if at all possible is to educate today's children so that they can learn to appreciate this kind of music because in all actuality if they dont start to love it and want to learn how to enjoy it and play it no matter what instrument it is I'm afraid all of this will die out in years to come and all that will remain are small audiences that will appreciate it. It's sad but it is what it is.It's really amazing to listen to these people play as they are arranging and orchestrating on many levels with 2 hands & 2 feet to create a full Symphony Orchestra effect...brilliant!!!

Does a hammond have pianos, strings, horns, drums ???? No !!! Does it even have the capacity to program these things ????? No !!!so you are asking a question that you already know the answer to. But you can make incredible music on a hammond. Well i dont know for a fact that you can but i know other musicians can.

It doesnt matter what you buy lee. Because if you cant make incredible music with the current line of arrangers out there to satisfy your ear then you might want to take up the Kazoo ! I have been reliably informed that you can do amazing things with a kazoo :-) ( i am playing with you Lee)

Best of luck whatever you buy or dont buy.



[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 09-04-2010).]

This video really impressed me. That�s what I call a true one-man-band, or�..one-woman-band��or�..one-person-music. Not the players who do runs up and down the board. They�re technicians, not music makers. This lady is a �music-maker.�

Anyhow, I have some questions if some of you can answer them.

1) who is the lady��I did a Google search and couldn�t find anything for maru (is that her name?). And�..I�m assuming she�s Japanese?

2) Is this her own arrangement, or is it the actual score from the movie?

3) Is she using a Roland Star Wars �style/pattern?� Is she playing on top of a MIDI file? If so, did she make it herself?

4) I hear lead (right hand), background (left hand), bass notes, individual drum beats, and fill-ins (where I don�t see her fingers move). What�s playing what? I�m watching her left foot but I can�t quite make out what she�s doing with it (my guess is she�s playing �accompanying� drum beats).

5) She did the �gliss� with her left hand. I�m assuming she�s left handed and that would account for a lot of her left hand dexterity?

6) Anyone know where I can read about her?

I really like what she does!!! That�s something to shoot for.

Lucky

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpxtlCLwWvA&feature=related

I still believe that a MIDI file (the one i pointed in my previous post) is doing the "background" work. Of course left hand right hand, feet etc are all hers. In another tune that donny posted she stops playing the music, turns a page on her book and the background still plays. Probably a style or MIDI of some sort that provides the backbone.

I would have to agree with you about the MIDI file. At one point in her Star Wars I heard a repeating snare drum and her fingers weren't moving with it.

So I view her as an ordinary mortal now. But still, I'd like to know what she was doing with her left foot? My guess is since the MIDI file was playing the bass line, she was playing the rhythm section making all those background drum beats for each note. Not an easy task I might add.

I'm not that familiar with the Star Wars theme. Did she add a lot to it with her playing or was most of it done automatically?

Anyone?

P.S. I thought that was a Roland. I've since learned it's a Yamaha keyboard.

Lucky

Lucky, see my previous post where I posted the Star Wars midi, play it, and then hear her performance again.

I think she actually plays A LOT of it, but that the registrations change from a file or are preprogrammed

That said, i wish I could play half as good as she.

Ahh and guys, in some videos on You Tube, she answers questions iand seems to have a good command of English language. Why don't you ask her how she does it? Hell I will do it.

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 09-06-2010).]

OK, I got it now.

If you can read Japanese, go to www.ymm.co.jp or view it through an on line translator.

They publish a lot of things for the electone series, including registration disks, song disks and books like this:
http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/463682317 6/r...76&linkCode=asn

It is probably a kind of arrangement written especially for the Electone and then played back with the aid of regisrtations and background song data.


[This message has been edited by trident (edited 09-06-2010).]

Most Electone players play from Electone books that come with registration disks. They're very popular and come in several levels (grades).

As with many things in Japan, they even can be found in vending machines. How cool is that?

Most of Yamaha's Electone demonstrators were finalists in the Yamaha Electone Competition.

Taike

------------------
Bo pen nyang.

Yes, of course she is using styles...controlled and changed by the registrations buttons. 16 are available. The Electones play Yamaha style files. Also you can setup your own sequences to change the registrations as you play...or you can use a knee bar or one of two switched mounted on sides the expression pedals, or just push the button.
There is some autoaccompanyment...but she is doing most of the playing.

I had next to the highest model Electone in 1987...most of these things were there then...this baby is designed for live play.

I sold mine because the MIDI implementation at that time was weak, AWM1 and FM were the sounds, and they were good but better was available, I wanted to add external tone generators and it just wasn't designed for it, and I kind of lost interst as I was looking for a new wife :-).

The thing is this is 2 manuals, pedals and all setup ready to go (If you don't want to play peadals it will do it for you just like an arranger) But the pedals are great for big bass, timpanys, and other percussion.

Sequence disks with music books are available, and they can play the whole song (just NIDI) , but watching her I think she is using sequenced styles and changes.

So, this is 2010, that came out in 2004..it would be very difficult for anyone to replicate that performance on any arranger with one 61 note keyboard. IMHO...I could be wrong, it happens a lot :-)

I have been pretty excited by it..as I had lost contact with the Electones since about 1990....Probably the only way I will get one is:
Get a divorce, move to Japan, seek out Stagea female owners, find a hot one, marry her and then...I can play the Stagea.

Lee S.

So, this is 2010, that came out in 2004..it would be very difficult for anyone to replicate that performance on any arranger with one 61 note keyboard. IMHO...I could be wrong, it happens a lot :-)

Lee, too bad you don't have a Yamaha. If you did I could provide the styles to do this on your 61 key keyboard. Lots of folks have--I'm just not one of them. I don't have that kind of talent in my aging fingers.

Cheers,

Gary

Gary,
Thanks for the offer anyhow :-)

Lee S.

Guys.....thanks for the additional info. It takes more of the mystery out of her performance for me.

No one's answered......what's she doing with all that action in her left foot?

Lucky

Playing the Bass Lines

Bill

Bass AND percussion.

I use the 13 note Roland pedals with T2 and/or {PA2XPRO to play all kind of stuff especialy timpany and other percs. And you can use it for arranger functions as well (vars, breaks, fills, endings, next registration etc)
Unbeleivable power to have that 3rd keboard (up to 32 notes or more on some orgns)

Lee S.

The trick is, once you decide to play along with an SMF, all KINDS of things become possible, even on your one keyboard arranger. Yes, having a 76 is a bit of a plus, but I am sure that, as long as changing one sound on a Part doesn't cut off the previous one (love that about my Roland's), the sequence itself can do some VERY complex things to fairly basic playing. Add to that the ability to easily change Registrations (again, without cutting off played notes) or OTS settings with foot controls can eke amazing things out of your playing.

For instance, my G70 (hardly state of the art!) can stack up to SIX different Tones all on one note, all in different velocity ranges (if you want), has an extensive set of single Tones that are actually four-way splits (woodwinds, brass, strings, etc.), does seamless registration changes, without any sound glitches (if you are careful).

The thing is to get creative with HOW you play... For instance, drop the sustain pedal, and use sostenuto instead. Now you can hold pedal notes, high 'floaters' partial chords, open voicings, whatever, and then play 'normally' while they hold, and it doesn't turn to mush. Get VERY good at keeping your playing tightly inside a velocity range, and you can easily double or triple up what sounds you can play without touching anything at all...

A long time ago, I got my trusty K2500S and the Orchestral Board for it. There are a LOT of very well programmed setups that can make you into a virtual orchestra (Kurzweil's were pretty much the industry standard in orchestral mockups until VSTi's took over) by creatively switching sounds depending on touch or pedals. Most arrangers can get VERY close to the K's capabilities, and this, combined with the SMF adding in a few things you can't quite get to, or changing your sounds and setups while you keep playing, stuff like this is possible, IMO.

Trick is, though, getting the touch, the voicings, the approach to this full orchestral style down. Obviously, it's a lifetime's study to even begin to understand the orchestra, but select songs like this should be achievable if you have the technical chops.

Personally, I would have preferred to hear this organist perform an improvised piece on it rather than this VERY carefully crafted and worked out piece. After all, it's all well and good to pull this blockbuster out of your trick bag, but far more satisfying to be able to improvise in this style without pre-programmed registration changes and slavish following of an SMF.

Just don't put your arranger down... With work, you could achieve this, with more work, you can achieve even more. Add a MIDI keyboard to your arranger, double the possibilities. Add pedals, even more. Sky's the limit.

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-08-2010).]