The Motif is NOT even close to playing with styles as we know it...I had one, I still have a Kurz K2600 same game, patterns, arps etc. Beautiful instrumentfor sure!

There are patterns...yes they are midi patterns...that where it stops. You have to PROGRAM all the stuff you want for a song. Or yuo can use the built in patterns...no intos, no ending no VARS, breaks, filles as we know them. They do have sections so it kind of starts looking like styles...but no real banana.

Yes it is true a very talented WS programmer can make that baby talk.

I rturned it..I don't have the that kind of time to devote to all the programming/setup.
Why in the 'H' would a guy on stage need styles? That's who mostly buy the WS's. Sure songwriter, but sog writers justuse Pianos too. They are creative, and if you want to get away from styles as we know them...go for it.

IMHO, they are not a one man band instrument.

But they have great sounds, great ARPs, KARMA in the case of Korg, and you have more programming and sampling that you could use in a lifetime.

I once tried to MAKE an arranger out of a Kurzweil K2600X and tried various methods to do the styles, Livestyler on PC, Yamaha QY100, Akai something or other, and got very frustrated. The thing is, if you want to spend days and days you can get it to work kind of,,,The integration is not there AND the content is not there.

Lee S.

Actually, the Motif XS does have styles. They have programs where when you press chords, it would follow your chord changes just like a “traditional” arranger.
When you press the SF buttons, you can get variations and fills.

Now, it has its limitations. For example, it only has four (4) tracks and not 8 like “traditional” arrangers.
And, the fills don’t behaves like a “traditional” does in that if a style has four beats per bar, you can not press fill on the second beat and have the fill last for 2 beats. The fill will last for 4 beats.

But all of that is just operational features that can and probably will be corrected by an upgrade.

It is very easy to use the Motif XS as an arranger. For example, some one could use the motif XS to play Misty. The accompany section could have drums, bass and a guitar and the melody could be played with a piano.
If some one did that and put it up as a demo and not tell you what keyboard they were using, you would think it was an arranger played with a very simple style.

I read a lot about the Motif XF espescially on Motifar.

Its sad to see that the XF gets the same accusation as the Tyros line... Its a collection of small improvements which make a much better instrument as a whole, but there is no innovation in the product line.. same concept same options as the orriginal 10 year old Motif.

Why does the company that brought us the DX technollogy and VL synths stop being innovative. It has been proven in any buiseness that as soon as you stop being innovative you'll start loosing your market share...

I am really exited to see if the upcomming Roland and Korg workstations can be inovative enough to take away the lead of the Motif series in the workstation market.

I think Steven Kay prolly stopped working on the Karma implementation for openlabs about a year ago to help design a new KORG product.

Roland should be able to put things like V-synth, V-piano intoo their new workstation range which also should rock in controlliong things on computers to become the ultimate masterkeyboard all in one instrument based on the awesome Fantom interface.


I think Yamaha is up for some heavy competition, espescially from Korg... but also from Roland if they finaly would use their technollogy and innovation in a workstation.

'The Motif is NOT even close to playing with styles as we know it...I had one, I still have a Kurz K2600 same game, patterns, arps etc. Beautiful instrumentfor sure!'

It most certainly is filled with styles but you are right, they are not as you know it. They are not just direct copies of songs a typical OMB musician might play because its not their primary purpose .

This is an instrument aimed at younger and more creative musicians who dont just want to mimic music created 30,40 50 years ago or who cant think outside of what they have been used to doing for years and years.

But the tool is exactly the same as an arranger in terms of musicality however the application of that tool is different and thats the point. Some bright spark at yamaha saw the idea of how styles could be used to flesh out songs in the early stages of song writing. You cant do this on a piano nor can you do this on a traditional workstation because it takes too long. It can only be done in arranger style. Thats why it is a serious selling point in the workstation market place and other manufacturers have had to follow suit.

Genesis,
Yes..but I still call them sequences or patterns not styles...I guess because it is more open. Meaning more for a small backgrond not a full accompanyment.
It makes sense to do it that way as it is designed for a giggng stage musician in a group (primarily).

Maybe it's just terminology..but I know that when playing its a different ball game with a Korg or Yamaha arranger VS a Motif or other WS/PRO Synth.

Lee S.

Having both I can say the Motif is not an Arranger by any stretch as in oder to make it "arranger like" you have to create everything by stringing together different ARPS yourself poking and hoping, experimenting which takes a lot of time all of which is done for you already on the Tyros.

This is easier to do in some cases because of the pattern looping mode. But not by much. In many cases I like to use the Tyros arrangements and port the MIDI information to the Motif sound set as a start and go from there. Since I am in most need of Bass playing skills and cannot create the guitar parts in real time I used to play rhythms for the bars I needed switch the chords and record another few bars and string the results together because I cannot change chording smoothly in one pass. The Motif and Tyros has been a boon for me in that regard. I would buy as many Guitar ARPS as would be available.


ON the Motif many sonic details can be edited in real time. The effects routing is pretty complex as complete as well. I have had it over a over a year and I still have not touched 50% of the features. Very intimidating ubtil you approach it from the standpoint of learn what you need when you need it.

I think they compliment each other but one would never replace the other on many levels. IF one loves programming and wants to create original arrangements that cannot be found in the arranger world, the Motif would be the better choice after a long learning curve. You have to PLAY everything on the Motif. Most of the Tyros plays itself. For cover tunes the Tyros is much easier to get results from. For live play one had better have an IATSE stagehand nearby to load and unload the thing or personal roadie.

The style section on the motif XS (lets be sure that we are talking about the right keyboard) does have styles where you do not have to play anything except the chords and the tracks will follow your chords just like a Tyros.

I suggest those who have an XS and haven’t taken the time to get to know the XS, go to pattern mode, select a pattern, press chords in your left hand and press the fs buttons. Do this first before coming on the forum and giving incorrect information.


Based on the limitations of the arranger section on the XS, I could do a whole gig using the XS as an arranger. It may not be like a Tyros, but it would get the job done of sounding like a band.

That goes back to the topic Spalding had about using an instrument creatively.

Saying the XS is not an arranger is like saying the Korg PA 2 x pro is not a workstation when you can do on the PA 2x pro the same thing you can do on the 01w.

Hi To the Genesis
Does the XS include category’s (Latin, March, Waltz, Swing etc.) that allow you to play the type of music for that category with intros endings, Fill s etc., if so then it most definitely has styles, if it doesn’t (It just has patterns) then it does not have styles. (A pattern following a manual chord sequence is not a style)
As I am not familiar with the XS, I look forward to your answer.
Regards

Bill

What!! Are you serious?
“A pattern following a manual chord sequence is not a style.”

Whether the style is organized in to categories is irrelevant as to it being a style or not.
Whether a style has intro, endings, fills is irrelevant to it being a style or not.

A style is a multi track groove that has auto accompaniment.

Whether they are organized in to categories, has intros, endings, variation or fills are just manufacturer’s specific features.
Soon from now we would be saying Korg pa 80 is not an arranger because it only has two fills per style. Or we may be saying a style that has all audio tracks and can not play a Cm7 flat 5 is not a style because it does not have midi tracks and can not play chord extentions.

The Motif XS does have fills it just has an OS deficiency as to how you can use them.



[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 09-08-2010).]

Hi To the Genesys
A pattern is nothing more than a rhythmic Arpeggio, and a selection of pattern/arpeggios that follow the chords you play, are most definitely not styles.

A style is categorised into a theme/collection, (Swing, Funk. Waltz etc.) and is designed to play within that style of music. (Hence the name styles)

Regards

Bill