Is it just me or does the Audya Rock'n roll style sound way better then the other 4.. Or is it because the whole performance is more ballanced then the other 4

Audya : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhWQDtrUTGc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA6MgIzgUj0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suqXPHokCPM&p=DBA27120E7BEA4FE&playnext=1&index=27
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Npksd6eeZs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X683gAKlI6Y

I thought the four other clips were far better balanced than the Audya recording, which was, for the most part, bass and drums that dominated the mix.

In my opinion, a "live" band sound is not working right if the bass player and the drummer are overpowering the rest of the instruments.

Ian

Ian thats why I love the "balanced sound" of Yamaha arrangers!

I thought the Wersi sounded the least authentic, but it was still balanced better than the Audya.

Ian

of course my opinion is

AUDYA Hands Down...
really no comparison,
forget the bass being loud, ye, so? it can be easily lowered.
but the drums, overall sound, WAY BETTER

Ian, Dnj, you guys should form a duo with your Yammies

Yes, they can be turned down Lee, but why does every Audya demo have them boosted so much?

Playing the Audya would feel like playing in the Buddy Rich band (with all the temperamentality).

Fine, if that makes you happy.

Give me that nice balanced Yamaha (or Korg) sound any day.

I wish you all the best in the enjoyment of your new Audya.

Ian

My main instrument is the drum set, and I listened to the original records and played those things myself in the late fifties. No doubt that the Audya has the most authentic drum sounds and the most authentic basic rock beat of that time. Tyros is also very good. The rest is pretty bad. There is one thing wrong with the Audya and with almost all arranger keyboards. The eight notes before 2 and 4 comes just a bit too late, and throws the basic beat out of balance. In jazz, blues, rock and latin, the drummer must know where to push and where to hang the notes to get a good beat. I think Tyros is better on this point.
casaet

Addition to my last post. The whole style (except the eight notes) and mix of Audya is perfect compared to the original, and so is Tyros.
casaet

How on earth you can tell the difference between those recordings, they are of poor quality. The Audya is the best out of a bad bunch but that's only because of the recording. It's not really a fair comparison, stereo mp3 quality please!

As I've said elsewhere, only those that haven't been on a stage with a good drummer lately are likely to accuse Ketron's sound of being too drum heavy...

Wise up, guys... THAT is what 'live' music sounds like!

You need to get out more often and try to find ANY live band where the drums are as buried as most arranger players have them... Best of luck!

Yep, and that's why most "live" music doesn't sell well.

If you hear a well put together group, Mr. Drummer doesn't be so loud as to drown out Mr. Guitar, and Mr. Piano...but that's how Audya sees it.

They may go the same way as those poorly put together "live" bands, and be replaced with someone with a Tyros, Roland or Korg, or perhaps, more likely, a DJ.

I make it a point to go hear live bands, and the good ones are balanced and are neither top or bottom heavy (unless the sound man is stoned/drunk/deaf, or all three.

There are those who like dominant bass and drums...they can buy the Audya, and go to hear bass and drums dominated bands...the rest of us kinda like a more balanced approach to both.

Ian

Leezone,

I have to agree with you the Audya is way ahead and I'm deaf. Found anymore BUUUUUUUUUGS yet!

Tony...you must be the possessor of an Audya.

Great comment...I'd reply the same if I was stuck with...er...owned one.

Ian

{Just kidding Old Bean)

It seems one is overlooking an important point here. These styles are not supposed to be contemporary rock styles, or eighties styles or whatever. It is supposed to be late fifties and early sixties styles. So the drum sounds and mix on Audya and Tyros are authentic. The Korg has a very modern snare sound. The Roland an eighties sound, and Wersi, the wrong bass drum sound, too loud in the mix, just to pick on some details.
I think I should mention that the Tyros player is the one that really masters this old style. One of the best I ever heard.
Concerning sound quality, the sound in the fifties was not awesomely good either, but we manages to get the message.
casaet

It's no secret I am an Audya fan but the bass on that Audya demo, first song anyway, seems too loud.

AUDYA Hands down!!

(Oh! Happy Yamaha PSR S900 and Korg PA800 ownwer/player).

Thank you,

FA

Live music seems to sell quite well at LIVE venues!

If you WANT to sound like a CD on a gig, go ahead and knock yourselves out... but if you want to sound like a live band (like all the artists from CD's do when they go out and play live ) don't choke the life out of the drummer. When you are trying to make asses move (rather than trying not to offend some diners in a restaurant), that drummer is the best friend you've got!

Honestly, guys... go back and listen to MOST arranger user demos. All you can hear is the RH solo, and some vague ticky noise in the background one can only assume MIGHT be a drummer... who knows?! Drowning out the guitarist might not be the worst thing you can do to a style - but drowning out the drummer certainly IS

Got to agree with Diki on this one.
To me, the point of an arranger is to sound like a live band and not a CD recording.

I don't care for most 'Live' bands of today.
All Bass & Drums, and my god...those screeming distortion guitars drown everything out.
The poor keyboad pl;ayer may as well just turn off the power and act like he is playing.

Listen to the Bee Gees if you like balance, and want to hear the keboard player too(Superb Kurzweils).

Oh, I forgot to say...IMHO, one reason they do all that with the band is because the singers SUCK CANAL WATER!
It's all show...and very little quality music.

Lee S.

The last live group I saw had the drummer inside a Lexan enclosure, which I can only guess that was so he didn't drown out the sax player, guitar player, keyboard guy and fiddle player.

After listening to the recordings, IMO they were crap. I would never have bother to post them--they were that bad.

Now, having heard Don Mason playing his Audya, and playing it myself for a few songs, it's a neat keyboard and Don really makes it sound great. Of course, Don can make any keyboard sound great.

OK Diki. Where's the link to that damned kazoo player?

Gary

Yes perhaps it does, but any decent "live" band is going to have balance.

Hearing the Audya demos just exposes the poor mix...fix the mix, and perhaps it might sound a little more like a "good" recording of a band...as of now, it sounds like a recorded band with a drummer for a soundman.

Duos using an arranger, including your own, do not sound like a "live" band...nobody's being fooled, Diki...get a live drummer and bass player...then you'll sound "live"...not until.

Otherwise you sound just like every other arranger based single or duo.

Ian

One is talking about music and the other about keyboards. Not quite the same in my book. Yet, it should be about music and not keyboards. JMHO

Taike



------------------
Bo pen nyang.

But none of them, including the Audya, actually do sound like a "live" band...they sound like a recording of a band (and in Audya's case, a poorly mixed recording)...they are still playing samples, which are recordings of instruments.

So, you are essentially playing a recording.

Ian

Ian,
Yes as you say a decent live band...but decent to me and I think maybe you too...is NOT what some of todays bands are about.

Balence are you kidding...go play some stuff on the radio.
You will definelty hear drums and screeming guitars, some vocals, doubt if you recognise any keyboards (at least not often).

But I'm with you, I like a pretty balenced sound except certain styles...and orchestral stuff.

BUT, I like to hear individual instruments stand out, sometimes drums or perc., maybe french horns building in the distance, maybe a quiet carinet solo...but very clear.
And strings that just sound real. A violin that has just the right vibrato, and brilliance.

What I don't like is when a bunch of intruments just muddy together.

Also, Live play to some is not the same to others. If you play at a club for dinner then dancing...that's different than playing a series of beautiful songs for listening plasure for a group of you friends you have over. That's what I do.

That's why I want my arranger to sound like an orchestra, not a band.

An arranger with kick ass drums (especially for Latin) is OK,but sure is not my only requirement.

Lee S.

Well Lee, I like a "balanced" sound for all styles...I play all styles, and I know what I want to hear.

I don't like when a bunch of instruments just "muddy together" either...that's why I like the Yamaha sound so much...it is polished and still has great detail/separation.

I don't have to play Yamaha...I want to play Yamaha.

That's why I work for/with them...I love the sound.

Tastes differ...you like different than I...neither is wrong.

Ian

To be honest, I can't make any reasonable comparison from those demos. If you took a bowl of corn flakes, added milk to one, water to another, gasoline to another, and Varsol to another, would that be fair? Of course not.

Let's hear four demos of four keyboards with the same player, same recording set up, and then give an opinon. Anything else is futile.

I�m a bit curious as to how many in here has even heard the AUDYA live? I mean in person.
I don�t think its fair to compare these instruments on a couple of bad-recorded demos. The key word here is the LIVE sound, which obviously cannot be experienced through a set of PC speakers.
However I do think that Yamaha sounds exactly the same in live situations as in recordings. This is NOT the case with the AUDYA. In recordings the AUDYA sounds just as bad as the Yamaha keyboards, but LIVE it�s a whole different story � the Yamaha simply does not have a chance in terms of realism and live feeling.

That being said I still prefer Yamaha keyboards since the AUDYA has got the following drawbacks:
A) It is filled with bugs.
B) It cannot play ALL chord progressions.
C) The OS was created by people whom do not give a s� about usability.

These instruments were build for LIVE performances so please don�t compare audio recordings.

Well said Morten. Audya's trying to sound so much like a real band (and failing, in my opinion) that it even has the idiosyncratic flaws of a new band just starting out.

Filled with bugs...not the vermin type, but they make lots of mistakes.

Can't play all chords...need lessons.

Don't give a sh*t as long as they are on stage and playing, and fans are gullible enough to buy into them, but are usually sorry they paid the price of admission.

In my opinion, Ketron can't afford to screw this up, but, so far, their track record on these (relatively innovative)new products has been rather dismal, and fraught with complaints...and they don't have any doting parents to bail them out.

Ian

I have the results of a very scientific poll

Kidding of course but, I had my wife listen without telling her which instrument was which. She did not care for the G70 or the Korg.

It came down to the Audya and the Tyros2, her comments, it's a tough call both Auday and Tyros2 sounded good to her non-musician ears. As a listener who is a listener and doesn't care about brands she liked both. In her words she added " the Tyros had clarity with the instruments." I interpet that to mean it's more balanced. Nevertheless her final comments was from a listener standpoint one wasn't better than the other.

Steve,

Keep in mind that our spouses can hear things we never hear. I'm thoroughly convinced my wife can hear a mouse peeing on cotton at the other end of a football field. They also know what they like and don't like musically and they are not afraid to voice their opinion--at least that's been my experience over the past half century. Kinda' like the old Popeye The Sailorman saying "I likes what I likes when I likes it!" Hopefully, we'll be able to provide some unbiased samples of different keyboards at the Mid-Atlantic Jam. It would be neat to make those comparisons of the same song being played through the same sound system using the same style, with different keyboards.

Cheers,

Gary

Ian,
Sorry I maybe wasn't clear..I like the Yamaha sound in general...always have...I've had 6 Yamaha keyboards over the years so I must like them :-)

My fav was the HS8T so far.
I would love to have a Stagea, but don't know how to do that one. Still have a T2...but seem to play th Korg PA2XPRO more.

I have decided to get a T4 when they are available here. I will get it with the understanding I may return it within 30 days if I don't want it at no chrge no questions asked. I will A/B test it using a lower kbd and pedals that I have...with my PA2XPRO.

Whichever one I like the best in general I keep. 30 days should give me plenty of time to decide. A friend wants the T2 so that's gone.

If I could get a Stagea I would not get the T4 and I would sell the Korg. I would most likely add a external sound module to the Stagea to get some better special sounds...probably a Kurzweil , maybe a Ketron SD2. If a T4 MODULE was available...wow...would that be super with a Stagea!!
If you ever hear of a used one...please let me know

Lee S.

There's a huge difference between a live band, listened to live, and the exact same performance recorded, and mixed and mastered, and listened to afterwards. I guarantee, you take even any modern concert by a kick ass band you LIKE (no point comparing to sh*t you hate in the first place, is there? ), the drums will be hugely forward in the mix live compared to a recording of the gig.

And, dig away all you want, Ian, but right now, virtually ALL of my playing is with a live band. I think I'm in a pretty good position to judge whether an arranger mix sounds live or not. And, once again, my job is to move butts, to create excitement, not to provide inaudible background music for diners. I've LONG said, should I ever get a gig playing solo for that kind of crowd, I'd be SERIOUSLY interested in a Yamaha! It would be quite a challenge to make a Roland sound that anemic (or 'polished' if you want to spin it better!)..

But rather than dig out an old CD of a live performance, and base your impression of a mix on that, go out and hear a GOOD live band, live... Bet your ass you don't EVER have to struggle to hear the drummer!

Actually Diki, I do play with a terrific "live" band several times a month. We're on our third drummer...the first two had no conception of "dynamics"...#3 is "there" but not overpowering...the way it should be.

I'm playing a B-3 and Leslie 122 with a Yamaha CP-300 on top....all R&B music...love it dearly!

The gear is set up permanently, so no hassles with lugging or setting up/tearing down.

Yes, you are qualified to voice your opinion, but, so am I, my friend.

Vive la diff�rence!

Ian

Well, first of all, sounds like a fun gig on a fun rig...

And secondly, I bet you anything that, simply recorded (but not mastered), even your THIRD drummer is louder in the mix than any arranger piece you've ever played!

That's the thing about drums... even if they are squeezed a little bit out front, onstage (and close to it from the audience's POV), those drum transients are going to CUT. And even the best of modern arrangers struggles to have that degree of impact. Our samples, even Roland and Korg, even Ketron (those drum loops are mastered), let alone Yamaha's are compressed during recording. The 'snap' is gone...

If I'm TRYING to make an arranger sound like a live band, it's got to be drums and bass front and center, just to get back what was lost recording the samples, let alone the loss in dynamics form the limited 128 step MIDI system... It's just strange that the same people that will happily play in a live band with drums pretty much where they should be want to turn them down WAY past that point when they use an arranger to generate them. Ideally, you shouldn't be able to hear a difference (if you WANT to sound 'live').

Yes, it sure is a lot of fun, and I find a lot of my old chops coming back, and some wind up in my arranger playing.

It's also very easy to turn the drums up on my S910 (or T3), change that channel's EQ, and achieve a more dominant drum beat, and a sound not that far away from Audya's audio drums, yet still retaining the detail and smoothness I like to hear.

I have a totally different set of registrations/styles for restaurant and "live" gigging, and with the convenience of flash drive storage, I'm able to have everything I need at every gig.

Both sets work exceptionally well. I know what I want to hear, and also, what works best...I've been in the business a very long time.

The Yamaha arranger is very versatile and covers every situation quite well...that's why I love using the product.

I suppose Audya would be a nice part of a kit, but, it's got too many issues and bugs, and in any steady gigging situation, you must have reliability and a great sound.

Ian