its not that simple Genesys. There are some features that the market is more sensitive to than others. Size and weight are very critical features in these products. Even the mere perception of more weight or less manouverability can put large numbers of potential customers off.

Anyway i am looking forward to some real live demos of the T4. Then will look for a cheap S910 that is bound to come on the market in the next few months.

[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 09-12-2010).]

Its all in marketing. And you know Yamaha is the King when it comes to good arranger marketing.
The T2 and T3 is heavyer than the PSR 3000 but did Yamaha stop making arrangers? Yamaha's thinking is that if your sounds ans styles are great, even if you do not have all the features that people want they would still buy the keyboard. That is why they could get away with small upgrades from one Tyros to the next.

Originally posted by travlin'easy:

"What's really neat is if you don't like what you see or hear, or the price, [b]YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY IT."


I agree Gary. Some of these posts are Tyros2 and 3 all over again...........and by the same cast of characters. All I can say is "This place sure is consistant"!! -charley

I've owned all of the Tyros series right up to T3, but I wont be going to T4, the Audya is the perfect Live Pro keyboard in my stable now.

I understand that Yamaha see the T series as a home player, but at the price, and one asumes it will be no different to the previous models, if Yamaha said to all of those 61 key buyers would you like a 76, you can't tell me they wouldn't jump at it. They have the MOtif shell its a lame argument to say it couldn't be done at a reasonable sell.

Also Price wise the piano (haven't heard it yet, but the CLP is pretty good, but why oh why cant they give you the same as in the Motif XF, seems very judgemental on Yamaha's part, and this is why you need a 76 piano on a 61 it's never gonna be the same.

So whilst I think the T series has been a great board, at this stage I think it's reasonable to be disappointed with what to expect from the T4, dont sell those T3's too cheap, the T4 may not be the answer a lot are looking for.

I've also owned the Tyros series up to the T3 (starting from the PSR 8000), and I WILL be getting the T4. I am assuming (yes I know what ASS-U-ME stands for), that the drums are going to be killer. I'd like the drums of the Audya better, but IMO the Tyros has a better combination of sound and performance features.

I'm going to get a T4...try it for 30 days..then I will see if it's for me. If not...back it goes at no cost to me whatsoever.

No, and I mean no, rumor of a PA3XPRO.

No updates, new sounds new styles NOTTA, from Korg for my PA2XPRO...probably means a new board is comming (it's been long enough too) so...I'll see what happens.

Meanwhile...I WILL get the T4 and I will give it a fair shot...that's the only way to tell if it's for you...get it and try it for yourself.

PS..my friend has my T2 now and seems happy.

Lee S.

quote"

chony
Member posted 09-12-2010 06:39 PM
I've also owned the Tyros series up to the T3 (starting from the PSR 8000), and I WILL be getting the T4. I am assuming (yes I know what ASS-U-ME stands for), that the drums are going to be killer. I'd like the drums of the Audya better, but IMO the Tyros has a better combination of sound and performance features.

IP
____________________________________________
yeah i know what ASS U ME stands for but I still believe Yamaha for them, see the Tyros as a winning formulae, and as much as we may kick and scream for features for pro sets they only change enough to get us to buy the next version, this is not a dramatic departure from previous models that I have seen so far, but I hope i'm wrong when the whole picture is revealed, lets face it, more competition is better outcomes for us all. As far as the drums, well if they haven't done the right thing at least there, heaven forbid.

BINGO!! Lee hit the nail on the head! Yamaha is NOT interested in the PRO market and therefore they won't make 76 key (or 88 key) totl arrangers! The only thing I would amend in Lee's statement is that roughly 50% of Home and/or Studio players actually would really prefer 76 KEYS! over 61 keys. The Polls don't lie - 50% of the arranger market would prefer 76 keys (or 88 keys). But Yamaha has such a huge following (just look around and you'll see the vastness of "Yamatron's" bowing to their master i.e. - they would buy a T4 if it only had 25 keys no doubt and because Yamaha's huge following the roughly 50% of the home market (who prefer 61 keys) Yamaha would still make buckets of money anyway i.e. on that roughly 50% alone apparently. They'll sell roughly a hundred Tyros4's to every 10 or so of Roland arrangers and/or Korg arrangers because Yamaha has this much bigger following and they end up selling tons more product than their competitors, needless to say. They're number one in size and sales by a long shot but they apparently don't have a need (or desire) to cater to the PRO, Home, and/or Studio market who prefer 76 or even 88 keys? Which is roughly HALF of the total arranger market as we know and as the Polls indicate. Yamaha is "kissing off" roughly 50% of their potential revenue because they're apparently raking in enough "loot" selling 61 key arrangers to the "other" half of the market - i.e. grandma and grandpa in the home - and they're too lazy??? or uninspired?? to reach the other half of the PRO, Home and Studio market. Which is their prerogative of course but it reeks of impropriety in my opinion.

So what it boils down to is Yamaha is quite "content" to overlook the PRO, Home, and/or Studio market who would prefer 76 keys (or 88 keys) and apparently their bottom line is not overtly affected because of it because of their already huge market share. So in other words, they will continue to make their 61 key totl arrangers - and to hell with everybody else. That's a harsh way to put it but it seems to be correct in its observation and thereby hits the mark in intended use; but which I regret having to use that particular word to get my point across.

But will my, or others, continual haranguing of Yamaha to change their business model help at all in the end? Well, we've been harping on Yamaha to make a 76 key totl arranger for pert near a decade and obviously to no avail as we see even the Tyros4 is 61 key only - much to the chagrin of 50% of the arranger market. Fifty percent of PRO, Home, and/or Studio players will simply have to look elsewhere for their PRO, Home, and/or Studio needs. Yamaha seems oblivious to our concerns and I recommend we start being 'oblivious' to Yamaha products and indeed look elsewhere for our keyboard, and our other musical needs. DO we really have any other choice?? Obviously not - thanks to Yamaha. Yet they seem unfazed - and destined to mediocrity because of it. At least in their arranger line anyway. At least that's how I feel. But as we've come to find out Yamaha doesn't seem to really care about how you or I feel. Sad... very sad. >> Unfortunately it seems it's ALL about the MONEY to them. Again... sad, very sad... yet apparently... true, very true.

All the best,
Mike

Michael, you aren't using Yamaha anyway...you seem content with your Roland keyboard, so one might say, you are already "oblivious".

There are a number of great 76 note arrangers available on the market...how come you didn't buy a Korg PA2XPro or a Roland G-70? The users of these products seem very pleased with what they have.

The Audya appears to be another alternative.

Why not stop wasting your time complaining about what is not being made for you by Yamaha, and spend the energy in investigating other lines and manufactures that are making a product that will suit your needs?

Obviously Roland sees no more need to make 76 note arrangers,....are they as guilty as Yamaha?

What if Korg dropped the PA2XPro...would you whine about them as well?

If you think you are beating a dead horse, why do you continue to beat it?

It is dead isn't it?

Why not buy an Audya module and MIDI it to your Roland?

If you waste your time complaining about the things that obviously aren't going to change, then you are also wasting the time you could use to make your own situation more bearable.

All the best to you, too,

Ian

Tyros 5 with 61 keys is in R&D....as we speak...if you want 76 keys get a good controller and MIDI up to a TYROS 4 !