After re-reading this entire thread, I'm thoroughly convinced that 99.9 percent of those doing all that bitching and moaning about 61 keys on the T4 WOULD NOT buy it if it had 76 keys and sold for $5,000.

And Michael, you make a lot of assumptions about the consumer market in your post above, especially the remark pertaining to the ratio of pro consumers V/S home and studio players. I'm not sure about that ratio where you reside, but in this part of the world the number of professional, arranger keyboard players are only a tiny fraction of the the total number of consumers. I'm fairly confident that Yamaha has done their homework and studies the consumer market a whole lot better than most manufacturers--that's why they're still around.

Now, for those residing in the mid-Atlantic area of the U.S. who must have 76 keys--DO NOT BUY A PSR OR TYROS SERIES YAMAHA KEYBOARD! And, while your at it DON'T BUY A BOSE L1, L1 MODEL II OR L1 COMPACT EITHER. I don't need the competition.

Cheers,

Gary

Seems if it is really true that 50% of the arranger customers would prefer 76 keys that Yamaha is missing a very big boat.

So, either Yamaha has other reasons for not doing 76 (Home division rules?) or 50% is not the right number?

Because I know Yamaha is not that stupid!

Lee S.

Another thing that surprises me is, for those people that think Yamaha is the be all and end all of arrangers, why would you NOT want Yamaha to bring out a 76, and remove the ONE impediment to us ALL being devoted slavish fanboys of Yamaha?

Here's the deal... Korg manage to stay in business offering a 76 and a 60 of the same arranger. Ketron manage to stay in business offering a 76 and a 61 of their arrangers (remember, the 76 Audya is the ONLY arranger in their current lineup that's a 76, isn't it?). Roland, up to the final G series, offered basically a 76 and 61 of the same arranger, and only JUST left the arranger market (for reasons that had NOTHING to do with the G70 being a 76 - after all, if the vast majority of arranger players hate 76's, how come the G1000 was such a huge hit?).

And, let's not kid ourselves. Yamaha DO make 76 arrangers. JUST REALLY BAD ONES. Even the über-expensive, über-heavy CVP's have at LEAST one generation (more like three, in truth!) out of date arranger technology in them. So, once and for all, will you SHUT UP about the fact that Yamaha don't make 76's and 88's.

They do... They just SUCK!

Isn't it about time Yamaha made a GOOD 76 arranger? I mean, what's the point in making BAD ones?

Donny,
MIDI up to a T4...yes, that's a possibility.
I did it wih my T2. Had a problem. If I remember correctly the LH memory function did not work correctly...a critical feature.
I called Yamaha...they said I did not need that feature as it's a home keyboard.

OK Guys & Gals...for those that don't want or don't need 76...so if you want to play a decent piano solo how do you get by with 61 freeking notes?? I'm not a heavy piano solo guy, but one of my friends is and he told me he could get by with 76...but 61 no way in H.

What..carry another keyboard with you for piano? Not!

Lee S.

I love the debate that Yamaha creates here with every new release of a 61 key arranger, it's some of the fuel that gets SZ active. Audya did too recently, but after months of SZ being on the mellow side Yamaha brings out another 61 key arranger and the debate goes full circle again.

Here's my take on it and I'm only speaking for myself. I've longed for 76 keys on a Yamaha arranger, but I'm convinced we won't see one in the class of the S9xx or Tyros series. Why did I want 76 keys? The extra real estate feels better to me who spent more years with piano than arranger. Then the light bulb went on ( duh) 95 % of gigs I play are assisted living facilities, the better ones have a grand piano in the lobby/rotunda where I play, the others have some form of piano, maybe a digital. The other 5% are the occasionaly wedding piano cocktail hour So why do I need 76 keys on an arranger when I have 88 on a grand piano? I really don't and since Yamaha isn't interested in 76 key arrangers I've given up the hoping. So at the gig I usually move to the 88s and play a 10 minute segment on the piano and at a cocktail hour the arranger stays home. Works for me, but everyone's circumstance is different.

Lee, for about 5 gigs going back a few years ago I carried a Casio Privia px410 and used midi to connect to the 3k. After 5 gigs I started leaving the Casio home where it still sits in a keyboard bag. It was way too much work.



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 09-13-2010).]

Don't forget, pianos didn't even get to be 88's until the mid 1800's... Most of Beethoven's repertoire (except the very late pieces) can be played on a 76. ALL of Mozart can be played on a 76, and all but the most stretched out, whacked out jazz and pop piano music can be fit into a 76.

Not to mention, that extra octave makes putting THREE sounds on the keyboard less of an exercise in extremely limited range mitigation.... Finally! A full two octaves to play whatever inversion or voice leading change for the chord recognition, and STILL over four octaves to use for your RH...

Don't forget, the weight issue is simply a diversion. The E60 was a pretty full featured 76, at only four pounds more than an S910 (with a FAR better action). They CAN be made.

Yep...I see. It's nice to have the GP on site...the 76 issue is perplexing. There's something there at Yamaha we don't understand...no matter what anyone says here...somethings up. It may be a simple as when they meet for requirements definition...a couple senior mgs just say 'This is a home keyboard and we are not going to do 76 keys' As long as they sell enough 61's they are not going to change it.
Bachus said that 50% of the arranger players want 76...so there's demand for sure.

With me...I always played organ...so I'm kind of stuck with arrangers because the organs went away (Yamaha) 1 manual 61 notes is TIGHT for me. Forget playing any meaningful piano too (But I didn't have that on the organs either (2- 44 or 61 note manuals). 76 is a nice compromise and I think it was Diki taht said it's the overall size & bulk that's a concern for the 61 lovers not the 76 keys.

I'm here to tell you I could move my PA2XPRO around a lot easier than my T2...the T2 was very wide & thick and no light weight either. The PA is easier to grab hold of & carry. It ssure isn't light either..BUT IT IS A METAL CASE...and meant to last.

In my case I use the 76..if I get a T4 because I want the content..I will have a 76 under it.

Lee S.

The ones calling for a 76 note Tyros or S-series must realize by now, that they are beating a dead horse.

The Tyros came out...the outcry by a few was for a model with 76 keys...no dice.

The Tyros2 came out, and again, the same few cried for a 76 note model...again, it did not happen.

The Tyros3 was introduced, and again, SZ was alive with the same bunch bemoaning it didn't have 76 keys.

Now, the Tyros4 is soon to be launched, again without 76 keys, and again, the same few bawling about it.

How much snow has to be on the roof before you get the drift.

They ain't making one, and they quite likely will not make one when the Tyros5 comes out.

The company obviously knows a lot more than the so called "armchair keyboard marketing gurus" here on SZ...until the company's marketing department decides a 76 note instrument is viable and profitable, it ain't gonna happen.

There are other choices if you need a 76 note arranger; they appear to be well supported...buy one and stop wasting your time complaining.

The horse is dead.

Read back to the old posts about Tyros/Tyros2/3 and see just how much the debate made a difference...do you really think it will now?

Don't like it?

Buy elsewhere.

Those are the cold hard facts, whether you want to believe them or not.

Ian

Regardless of the number of keys, real piano players, whether they be pro or home players, do not want a wimpy semi-weighted keyboard...it compromises their chops and offers very limited dynamics.

Most pro piano players, buy digital pianos, and those requiring more goodies, buy an 88 note weighted action workstation.

If they want an arranger, it more than likely will be a CVP Clavinova, or a KR-series arranger-piano. or if you like, piano based arranger.

It's the key feel that is important to a pianist...check out any piano forum for all the debates on what actions feel most like a "real" piano.

Ian

But..Ian..If you can have one keyboard for everything...why would you want a 61?
76 IS available in weighted hammer action too..even though I would rather compromise on 76 semi. Not perfect for everything...but a good compromise.

I'm not only talking Yamaha here...everyone...who knows the next Korg may only be 61 as well.

It is currently be a dead horse with Yammie...but, if enough customers ask for it...maybe in the future we get it. What do we do...just take what the high & mighty gives us and not try to change things?

Question...How many here on SZ has been asked by Yamaha if they want/need a 76 key Tyros? Who do they ask? Only little old lady's in UK? Only their PRO demo guru's? Who? We fill out those registration cards, how many owners are asked what they want in the future?

Seems like quite a few here have expressed desire for it...and that's only here..a VERY small group.

Lee S.

[This message has been edited by leeboy (edited 09-13-2010).]