I don't want one keyboard for everything.

A 61-note light action arranger that weighs 25 lbs (PSR-S910) suits my arranger needs.

An 88 note weighted action piano, like the 25 lb Yamaha P-85, suits my piano playing needs.

A 76-note semi-weighted keyboard is total crap for playing piano on, and is needlessly too long for my arranger needs.

I might be happy with a very light (30 lb) 88/76 note arranger as long as the keys are weighted hammer action.

88/76 weighted keys on an arranger (if the weight is under 30 lbs) is far less of a compromise to me, than a 76-note semi-weighted keybed.

I never have an arranger gig that requires me to play solo piano, and neither do I have a piano gig that requires arranger background.

On the very rare chance of needing both, the P-85 and the S910 aren't a big deal to take with me...both are light and compact, and set-up/tear down time, for me, is never an issue.

Ian

Ian,
Yes...I see your points. One difference is I don't care if it weighs 100 lbs..I don't take it out of the house...ever, unless I move. I think there is more like me than those that take them out all the time.

Actually if Yamaha would build a Clavinova with T4 in it instead of always using a lower model...That might be pretty sweet.
Korg did the same thing with the PA588.

But, Once again no dice..why do they dumb down the Clavinova?

Lee S.

actually the high-end CVP is not as dumbed down as you might think, other than having no aftertouch or pitch/mod wheels.

The new CVP will have more piano-orientated features, but will have the same sounds as the Tyros4, and a few that the latter does not have.

People buying a CVP are interested in "piano" first.

Roland does the same with it's KR-series.

Korg's PA-588 is too heavy for a "portable"...it is 51 lbs., even heavier that the portly G-70...add the weight of a necessary flight case, and your looking at a lot to lug.

I'm cutting back a lot on my personal gigging this year, so weight won't be an issue any more.

I'm very tempted by the Tyros4...I have a nice digital piano, so I might buy the T4 for recording purposes, and when I want 88 weighted touch, I'll just midi the piano to the Tyros.

Time will tell...I'm in no hurry.

Ian

Ian,
Sounds like you have a good plan.

I am going to get the T4..and put it on top of my MIDI kbd. add the pedals.

I will keep it for about 3 weeks at least. I will give it the best shot I can. If I like the way it works as an organ and of course all the sounds, styles etc. I will keep it. If not back it goes at no cost to me at all for the 3 weeks.

I would really like to be able to draw from all the Yamaha styles out there. If I do select the T4 I will keep it for many years...and just play. It's hard to explain...but I am looking for a certain level of instrument...sound wise. The T2 wasn't it, and the PA2 is closer..but not it either. You know the kind of music I play...very different then many here. An organ would be best..but only a Yamaha...I don't care for Roland, or Lowry at all. Stagea would be sweet, but I can't get one. Wersi is too expensive and I don't care for the lack of support here in US.

Hope I can get my T4 sometime in October?
I'll wait to see price & avaiability.
OH, one last question...when do you think the new Clavinova is out? Approximately.

Lee S.

Yep, there sure are a lot of terrific styles out there for Yamaha arrangers....just join one of the style clubs and the world is your oyster.

Too bad about the Stagea...they are pretty hard to get; even we Yamaha employees don't see 'em.

I suspect the new CVP-6** series will be a year after the Tyros4...generally the new mid-range PSR will arrive at the same time.

The T4 is to the T3 as the S910 was to the S900...no real cosmetic changes, but quite a bit under the hood goin' on.

Ian

Don’t forget that a 76 key keyboard is not just for piano players and it does not have to have weighted keys. I will give just one example of how a 76 key keyboard can be used other than piano. You can use it to get an additional split point.

An if 76 keys were just for piano players, then the Motif and M3 76 key offerings would have been weighted. They are not.
I just don’t see why would a person who likes just 61 keys in their PSR 910 and T3 have a problem with 76 keys if it does not affect size and weight. It makes no sense other than just being difficult to those who would like 76 keys.
As discussed in other threads, the real issues is not persons preferring 61 keys to 76 keys but persons preferring a lightweight and compact keyboard.

The first manufacturer who makes a 76 lightweight, compact and mobile arranger will solve a lot of the world’s problems.

Bottom line is that Yamaha is not going to make a 76 note top line arranger...despite the bitchin' and whinin' of several people since the first Tyros came out, the fact that every other Tyros afterwards still had 5 octaves should make it quite obvious, even to the most casual observer, that Yamaha do not feel that making a 76 note arranger is in their best interest.

All the whinin' and cryin' hasn't worked these past several years...what makes you think it will work now?

What part of "NO" can you not understand?

Perhaps you might consider Yamaha actually knows something you do not?

If, in the next few years between the Tyros4 and Tyros5, Yamaha decides a 76 note T-series is in their best interest they'll make one.


For now, those needing a 76 can easily buy a Korg PA2Xpro (or Audya) and be happy as a clam with it, as many here say they are...what is the problem?

How many keys on your Genesys keyboard?

How long have you had it?

Ian

The genesys module which I have I can get 61 76 or 88 keys.

As discussed in other threads, the issue is not just having 76 keys but also having something that is compact and mobile of which the Korg, Roland and Ketron are not.

Plus we want the great styles and sounds of Yamaha.
It amazes me that Yamaha and its representative are just ignoring a significant part of its potential market.

Not everyone crowing here for a 76 note Tyros will actually buy one...a lot want the sound to be more to what they think it should be, as on a Roland or Audya for example, so no matter how many keys it will have, they won't buy it.

It amazes me that you can assume Yamaha is ignoring the "significant market" because, you really don't know what the actual "market" is, unless you have done surveys yourself, and, somehow, I don't think you have.

If you have done so, please share it with us.

What amazes me even more, is that you can't understand the word "NO".

Ian

Yamaha have ALWAYS been 'not going to make something' until they actually DO. Whereupon, all the fanboys that said such a thing promptly found some other bandwagon to jump on, and conveniently forgot Yamaha doing exactly what they said they never would!

And, one more time (as if this is going to stop this idiotic gushing) YAMAHA DO MAKE 76 NOTE ARRANGERS.

But they SUCK...

That's all we are asking for... not for Yamaha to start doing something they aren't already doing. But to merely START to do a decent job at something they obviously haven't managed yet. Would it KILL them to add THIS YEAR'S arranger technology to THIS YEAR'S CVP? Would it kill them to add this year's arranger technology to all the 76 arrangers they DO make?

But their business model seems to say 'if you play anything bigger than a 61 by choice, you don't NEED our best arranger technology'. And I, for one, can't come up with a single reason why a person playing a 76 or an 88 needs anything different whatsoever to a 61 player.

BTW, there are piano sounds, and we play piano parts (as best we can!) on 61's as well as 76's and 88's. If nothing BUT an 88 will suffice to play a piano part on, despite the obvious fact that you no more need to be an organist to play organ parts, or a sax player to play sax parts, why are they included on a 61 (and I guarantee that Ian plays them)?

Grasping at straws, I'm afraid, Ian... Is an 88 optimal for piano? Of course. Can you play organ parts on an 88? Sure. Optimal? No... but 88 note arrangers and WS's have organ sounds onboard.

A 76 is possibly the BEST keyboard for a KEYBOARD player. Big enough for most piano parts' range. Light weight enough keyboard for most organ parts. Sure, it's not the best for a PIANIST. But I'll bet the majority of us here consider ourselves KEYBOARD players. And we NEED all the sounds, on a keyboard that limits them as little as possible.

The biggest compromise, IMO is a 61 plastic. Not only does the key weight penalize you, but the size penalizes you even MORE. I can easily play piano parts good enough for any producer on a 76 G70. But I am hard pressed to do a good job on a 61.

Let's face it, were Yamaha to actually decide to make a GOOD 76, Ian would be trumpeting its' superiority to everything else at the top of his lungs. Amazing how quiet he gets (to the point of completely ignoring the fact that they DO make 76 arrangers) when they don't make a GOOD one...

To my mind, if a keyboard has an arranger engine in it, it is an arranger. It walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... you get the picture! So Yamaha make 88 arrangers (they don't want to CALL them arrangers, but that is what they are), they make 76 arrangers (but don't want to call them that, but that is what they are) and they make 61 arrangers. Sadly ONLY the 61's are any good...

Is that cause for celebration? Personally, I'd be ashamed if my employer and favorite marque could only dominate in one segment, when all it needs to do to dominate across the board was cobble a different size keyboard onto what is already the best selling 61.

Is that laziness, incompetence, or both?