instead of using standard midi cable...

can a USB Type B male to USB Type B male cable be used to connect AUDYA4 directly to a controller which does not have the standard 5 pin midi plug (only USB)?

Probably not..

You have 2 types of USB connectors...one type is USB-host and the other is USB device..

You can only connect a USB device to a USB host... I guess that both your connections are USB device...

If you are referring to controllers that ONLY have USB outs, you should beware... most of them, the fancy processing is done by the laptop AFTER it gets the basic USB key and knob/slider information.

Add to that that any information running down the USB cable has to share the data steam with every OTHER USB device on the chain, compared to MIDI being dedicated to JUST the musical data.

If I were you, I'd stick to controllers that have plain old fashioned MIDI. MIDI over USB is still in it's infancy, things like sys-ex and timing critical clock signals are still iffy (if a computer doesn't translate them.

Have you already GOT the controller you are going to use, or are you shopping right now?

Bachus,
Absolutely true...the host port is driven by PC software drivers (r equivelent).

I sure would not buy a controller without MIDI in, out, and even...thru.

The ones without MIDI (5 pins) are designed for PC connection only. You could of course go to the PC...then MIDI ox to the Audya.

Lee S.

I would not buy a controller without MULTIPLE MIDI outs..!

Sooner or later, you are going to want to hook up more than ONE thing to them. And then, without multiple, separately addressable outs, the nightmares start!

Getting many modern arrangers to IGNORE something is pretty iffy, which is what they are going to have to do if you are sharing one port with two modules (or keyboards, etc.).

Diki

I own both the maudio axiom 61
And the akai apc61
Akai is nice as it has tons of pads.
And 3 banks on all sliders buttons knobs. Etc.
Giving me like 72 pads. 25 sliders. 24 buttons. Knobs etc

Problem is these. I believe only send. Program and bank. Note changes which I believe is not enough to
Control audyas. Var. Fill. Intro. Buttons. The sliders volume etc

I think this is all done via system exclusive

Maybe someone can. Help
Maybe something out there that would do what I want ???

Lee,
First check the manual to see what controllers or system exclusive it takes to do all you want. Don't know about the ones you have, but some of the Novation MIDI controller kbds do support sending of Sys. Exclusive.

Why not do it the way I have...mount the controller under the Audya..VERY close with the Audya keys hanging over a bit just like the Organs used to do it. It is cool!
You actually want the Audya to set on the MIDI controller (use rubber pads) and will need to support the rear of Audya somehow.

If you do it right you may love it.
Use the MIDI controller just for lower and maye upper 2 or 3 (I'm speaking Yamaha terms here). Then, the left of split on the MIDI controller is LH voice including chords (probably still have the Audya LH working as well) to the righ of split...you have your second voice sound by just playing the lower keyboard anytime you want.

Use all the normal Audya controls not any of the ones on the MIDI controler (except maybe pitch & Mod wheels).
You could also have a MIDI setup in the Audya & controller for Piano, Vibes set of percussion etc on entire lower.

Just a thought...and I have done it on T2 and PA2...so it does work.

Lee S.

[This message has been edited by leeboy (edited 09-13-2010).]

While getting access to ALL possible addressable parameters probably involves sys-ex, most arrangers allow control of all the major arranger controls by far easier to program PC#'s and CC's.

Rather than making this an 'all or nothing' situation, you MIGHT try to figure out what you absolutely HAVE to have, and what you can do without, live, out of your controller, then see if you can live without sys-ex commands. They can be pretty tricky to set up right, especially if they are sending continuous values (lots of checksum issues), and the sys-ex also tends to choke the MIDI stream, taking massively greater bandwidth than a simple CC value.

Bottom line is, your Audya has most of the controls on it. What do you absolutely HAVE to have on the controller, if the module is close enough to actually manipulate...?

Me, I'd only be worrying about realtime arranger control... Intros selection, Var, Fill, Ending selection, tempo controls, Start, Stop, Bass inversion on/off, things like that. Part volume and effects, style keyboard balance, etc.. I'd be surprised you need sys-ex for THOSE.

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-14-2010).]

i think i do need to use sysex for everything i want

basically i want to trigger the following:
intros
arrang, a, b, c, d
fill 1, 2, 3,4
end 1, 2, 3
break,
tempo
start/stop
volumes of main style parts, drums, bass, accomp, solo

and i do not want to use my audya module for it, as it will be on my top tier of stand,

my M-Audio Axion, and my Akai MPK61 only send CC, Program, Bank change messages

and i am almost sure i need sysex to trigger all above mentioned

i do think however the new Novations send sysex,
but i do not have the sysex codes, and they are not in manual
i have emailed ketron, but i may never get a response

check em out,
they look SWEET http://www.novationmusic.com/products/midi_controllers/sl_mkii



i think i'm asking for something relatively simple, but seems like i have to deal with a lot of red tape...

if anyone can help, i'd appreciate

if i have to sell my m-audio axiom or akai or both,
and get the novation sl mk2, i will

again i wish it was just sending bank, patch, cc messages....but....

[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 09-15-2010).]

[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 09-15-2010).]

[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 09-15-2010).]

pictured above id the 25 key
they also have a 49 and a 61
49 key may be too small as an arranger,
so i'd get 61 key

And then there is the Novation Zero SL mkii, without any keys.. thats the one i use on top of my S90ES to controll my software

yes Bachus,

i have the original Zero XL,

but don't want to have Audya4, Novation, + Akai controller, that's 3 tiers, and harder to reach than having all on keyboard

i want to use just controller + AUDYA4

Bachus,
do you think i can Automap the Novations buttons to AUDYA's buttons?
maybe Automap just works for software/VST's

I hate to say this, Leezone, but don't you think it would have been a good idea to FULLY know what codes need to be sent and received to fully control the Audya module, and whether any current controller keyboard can send them all, BEFORE you went the distance and BOUGHT the darn thing?

At this point, it doesn't seem as if you have even got a clue about what can and can't be either sent or received, what codes you DO need a controller to send and if any controller exists that sends them...

That sounds like a recipe for frustration (something you have shown you have little tolerance for), IMO.

Diki,

i already am switching sounds with my existing controllers,

even if i don't get to control everything else, it's ok

i am confident the Novations will do all i need,

if not no biggie, i'll deal,

my decision to buy would never be based on whether or not i could TOTALLY control the AUDYA4

my decision was based on awesome sound, awesome styles, and ability to have my OWN drum audio loops

i have emailed Ketron and AJ for the codes, so we'll see....

Lee,
Great! Once you get ALL the details on which functions and the required MIDI messages that CAN be controlled from external MIDI device...then you can do the research, select and buy the right controller. I think the novation would be hard to beat.

That info SHOULD sure be documented in the manual...now I'm concerned if you can even do it? If not...I would return it to Italy!
I think Ketron mostly makes the modules for Accordian/Guitar players?

Lee S.

All codes have been sent to Lee already for control of all AUDYA top panel controls ... and more...

You'd think that much of the basic arranger control would be simple MIDI commands if they are being used with MIDI accordions a lot... Most of those don't have fancy sys-ex capabilities.

The other thing I can suggest, Lee, is to get a foot controller for the Audya. I do most of my basic arranger control with my feet (to not interrupt my hands from playing), basic var and fill selection and breaks. They have a what, ten button input, don't they? You can do a LOT with ten buttons...

thanks for the "foot" suggestion

but i like to use my hands for fills, and feet for volumes
i have been doing it this way for years,

this is why i want the fills, var, intro, end, start, stop, restart, tempo, volumes right in FRONT of my fingers,

so it seems yet another keyboard for my collection, the 61 note version of this:

The thing that strikes me is, in all probability, you are going to want to see the Audya display for confirmation of what is happening, and selection. I just took a look at the layout... DAMN!

Who was on what drugs when they decided to put all those sliders in between the bottom and the arranger control section?! Put those higher, put the arranger controls at the bottom, and you could have used any dumb MIDI keyboard you wanted, just butt the Audya up to it. Now, to have the controls anywhere NEAR your playing hand, you HAVE to have a complex controller

Same issue with the Pegasus Wing... doesn't anyone KNOW that the arranger controls are the ones you use the MOST? There's a REASON why all keyboard arrangers put them next to the keybed...

What diki? Wersi R&D didn't contact you first before designing Pegasus? wow I'm shocked

ye, the layout is debatable

the Fill 1,2,3,4 are just below the screen, in middle,

would have made sense at bottom

so you see Diki, i have a reason for my controller MADNESS

you see where i'll have my fills, var's etc. right at my fingertips where they should be

oops 2x post

[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 09-17-2010).]