Thanks Elwood...that settles it...the WK-7500 uses styles (full accompaniments) so it is an arranger.

http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/keyboards/professional-keyboards/buying-guide.php#1

Nothing confusing at all.

Ian


[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 09-19-2010).]

Yeah...you guys are correct...my mistake.In fact,all music retailers who split keyboards up into separate categories,such as the Motif XF and the Tyros 3,are just trying to scam the customer.
Yes indeed,these corporations are in some joint conspiracy to concoct a crafty & deceitful sales strategy,by mislabeling keyboards,in an effort to confuse a buyer into spending more money on arrangers,when in fact,all of these keyboards are the same.

Maybe you people ought to file a class action lawsuit against all music retailers,for false advertising.

There's a saying; "sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken".

Meaning that just because workstations have similarities to arrangers,does not make a workstation an arranger.
Just about every keyboard in existence,has some sort of auto-accompaniment,or some sort of pre-programmed feature...so does that make virtually every keyboard out there,an arranger?

Ok fine....prove me wrong...go into a GuitarCenter or Samash and tell them you want the new Motif XF arranger keyboard and if the salesperson does not correct you,then you win the debate.
Better yet though,you should call up Sweetwater.com and talk to a salesperson there,because there are quite few idiots working in places like GuitarCenter & SamAsh.

In the simplest of terms,an arranger keyboard is simply a workstation where one of it's main functions is auto accompaniments and a lot more of them,than a workstation.
This is why they are categorized as arrangers,so it's really not a gray area here.
If it's really so important for some of you to refer to workstations as arrangers,then contact the administrator of this forum and ask him/her to merge the different categories together & see how well that goes over.


-Elwood

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Korg M3,Reason 4,Presonus Studio One,Adam A7's,M-Audio CX5's & BX8a's,Zoom R24

[This message has been edited by elwoodblues1969 (edited 09-19-2010).]

The WK series as are most of Casio's line..even some of their pianos...are "auto accompaniment"..and this term has been substituted with the term "arranger" for the last 15-20 years..

"arranger" keyboards that have improved sequencers (16 or more tracks), and editing capabilities..have been labeled "workstations" by the manufacturers..

Yep, we have one too: "If you stick your boots in the oven, it don't make them biscuits."

Ellie, why don't you go first with your suggestion of a class action suit...let us know how it turns out?

My buddy has an old '63 Chevy Impala Super Sport...it has an in-line six and a 2-speed Powerglide automatic.

Though it is a fine vehicle, it is neither "Super" or "Sporty".

Jes 'cause Casio writ "Worksation" on their arranger, doesn't make it one, much the same as callin' yerself Elwoodblues doesn't make you John Belushi, or, puttin' the names of lots of "pro" gear as your signature makes you a "pro".

It's you that makes you a pro.


Fran above, has the correct answer...he's an old arranger player from way back when.

And, he's qualified to give it, 'cause he's old, and he plays an arranger.

Ian

Mind you, the DGX's and NP-80v's and CVP all have the qualifications to be CALLED 'arrangers', at least those that Ian uses to call the WK an arranger...

But, mysteriously, Yamaha (and Ian) would rather die than admit that THEY are arrangers... Possibly because, compared to other similar offerings from other arranger manufacturers, they aren't as dominant as the PSR's and Tyros's in their field...

When you can't win the game, change the rules...

Seems to work for you quite well.

Ian

If nothing else,putting keyboards into different categories aids in people choosing the appropriate keyboard for their specific needs.
Some people don't want to pay extra for all of the additional auto accompaniments & such and I've read where the Yamaha Tyros 3 does not integrate nearly as well with a PC as the Motif series does.
The Tyros 3 costs $2200 more than the Motif XF6 and for what??
Just so people who are too lazy or inept to create their own accompaniments?
Arrangers are for old farts in retirement homes and people who play at weddings & barmitzvahs.
It would be pretty silly to slap an arranger label on a Motif XF,whereby a person takes a keyboard home thinking that they've bought a keyboard that has all of the automation that they wanted,when in fact,it doesn't.

What...you people think that the word arranger is merely a label manufacturers and retailers use to extort extra money out of people?
If that were true,people would eventually get hip to the scam and it would-at some point,kill the sales of arrangers altogether.

As it is,workstations out sell arrangers and this is pretty evident,just by measuring the amount of discussions about workstations versus arrangers amongst various forums.
Anywhere you look,you'll find more product reviews on workstations,then you will on arrangers.
More and more,I see new software coming out that is so automated,that a person does not have to have an ounce of musical ability to create music and it's people like that,that keep the sales of arranger keyboards alive.

There is however,one scenario where a software program like Band In A Box is useful,such as a guitarist,who wants to lay down a song without having to bring a band into his studio.
Still though,I know plenty of people who learn keyboards as well and do all of their own accompaniments using pattern sequencing on a workstation,which is so much more creative and original.
If a guitarist has enough musical ability to play guitar,then learning a keyboard is a breeze,as a keybed is so much more linear.

If you people are going to label all keyboards as being arrangers,then you might as well label the Band In A Box software as being the same as Cubase,Logic,Ableton and all the rest.

If you people worked in a music store,would you go around telling all of your customers that all of your digital keyboards are arrangers?
Don't you think that would cause some confusion amongst some of your potential buyers?
Don't you think that might be a bit detrimental to your employment at that store?

Then again,you could get a job at Wal-Mart and tell your customers that the sky is green and the grass is blue and at least of them will believe it.

I've been on several different gear forums over the years and this is the only forum I've ever seen,where people put up an endless argument over what constitutes an arranger keyboard and what does not.

According to you people though,virtually every digital keyboard out there is in fact,an arranger...so I guess that means that you've people have been imbued with a unique & rare gift for determining what is an actual arranger.

No one else on the net has been able to uncover the underlying truth about keyboards and I guess I've stumbled upon the most astute and elite group of knowledegable musicians on the entire internet....how nice.


-Elwood

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Korg M3,Reason 4,Presonus Studio One,Adam A7's,M-Audio CX5's & BX8a's,Zoom R24

They are digital pianos with arranger features, since they are based on existing digital piano platforms.

The term Yamaha uses is "piano-based arranger".

Don't like their definition?

Don't use it.

Don't like their products?

Don't buy them.

Simple eh? Even for you.

Ian

Yep...but only if you consider people 40 and up "old Farts", because arranger customers start mainly at that age, although some are younger.

Diki, Fran, Donny, Steve, Genny...are they lazy old farts? They use arrangers.

They say you can't recognize things in others unless you have them yourself.

You seem to fit in quite well here, Ellie, and you haven't budged an inch from your original premise which you seem to think is correct...does that make you "stubborn?"

You don't use an arranger either, and this is a General Arranger Forum...perhaps you are in the market for one?

You are in a good place...there are many people here who obviously know far more about arrangers than you, so you'll gets lots of qualified help.

Ian

Even casio can take a trip south?....amazing !!