Gear4music.com's exclusive video of the Tyros 4 launch, with expert demonstrator Martin Harris.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LYRRosXTEI

Jerryghr

Thanks for the link, Jerry.

Gary

jerry thanks for the heads up....but is it me or is anyone wondering why all you ever hear are these Scat Voices on all the new demos?...is that whats new on T4..
I personally never use scat voices ...do you?

They certainly are overdone. I wouldn't upgrade my T3 to get them. I would get tired of them very quickly. (Already tired of the demos of them).

I might do one song in an evening with them ...just for effect and variety.

Regards,

Jerry

+1...

I spent a small fortune for a CDROM for my K2500 of Take 6 samples. FAR better than these on the T4. But they VERY quickly turned into a gimmick, once the novelty wore off. I've got vocal scat sounds on the G70 comparable to the T4 scat sounds. Once again, after the first few months, I hardly ever use them.

I just don't get Yamaha's priorities... First, Uilleann Pipes on the T3, now scat voices on the T4, all the while ignoring the drums (or paying them lip service). I don't know about you, but I use drums on every single song I do, but Uilleann Pipes on ONE song, and scat voices on none. And I'd be prepared to say that the vast majority of us here are the same...

Well jerry if someone wants to be Sammy Davis Jr scatting his brains out I dont know how long the audience will last.....

I would love to know how this T4
VOCAL Declaration to the world was decided in the R&D room for the Tyros 4 release?...What was their mindset?...& Goal.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-21-2010).]

I believe their mindset is providing keyboards for the elderly retirees, who at least have the advantage of such poor memory retention that the scat voices might NEVER get tiresome!

Perhaps one of the Yamaha software third party guys can invent a program that automatically replaces all the overdone vocals on the styles with less gimmicky sounds... Otherwise I envision lots of late night sessions editing all your styles by hand!

Thank God they didn't come out with an SA2 Kazoo!

While I think that Yamaha features the scat sounds too much in their demos, I think that you are being unfair in inferring that that is all Yamaha has added to the new keyboard.

There are demos of a lot of other voices, and they sound fantastic.

I was blown away by the brush drum demo. Yamaha added over two dozen new drum kits, and they seem much better samples than the T3 drums.

I think that the problem isn't that Yamaha has great scat and bagpipe sounds, but heavily featuring them in their demos when they are not used so often in modern music doesn't make good marketing sense.

Beakybird

I cant believe I have to agree with Diki on this one but he's right!!

Do they think all these vocal Voices give the WOW factor to the elderly & beyond and in their amazment they reach in their wallets and shell out 5k?........
OMG !!! this is getting weird !!!

Between these voice scat & doo bee doos and no mention or demo of the upgraded VH2, I'm slowly getting dissapointed in the trickle down scenario for the next S series also.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-21-2010).]

Vocal sounds were showcased early on in the demos, because,(if you had been reading Yamaha forums like YPKO), there were a lot of requests for scat and vocal sounds.

We'll see more demos featuring the many other sounds and styles of the Tyros4...don't base you assessment of this instrument just on early demos.

Look at the G-70...it's early demos were pitiful, until the OS was upgraded...twice I believe.

The Tyros4 sounds great out of the box...and why shouldn't it?

No one wants to spend a month or more trying to make an instrumenty sound good, no matter if they are 40 or 80.

I want an instrument that sounds great when I first plug it in...I also want to be able to customize it to my liking.

The Tyros delivers on both fronts.

Ian

I happen to love the scat voices, but then again, I just had another birthday

Hey, don't use them if you don't want and I agree totally with everything Beaky said.

Yamaha is clearly looking after a different market/clientele, than you, Diki.

The average Tyros buyer is retired, fairly well off, usually coming from an organ or accordion background, or perhaps played synths or combo organ in a band.

Yamaha isn't looking for your business at all.

You need to wait for something by Roland or Ketron...it might be a long wait...of course, you're prepared to wait...you're content with your two G-70's.

You really have no use for most of what's on a Tyros...do you do a lot of Ballroom, Country, Swing/Jazz for instance? Is a polished pop style, or ballad part of your repertoire?

Plus, you don't like a compressed or polished sound, which is the hallmark and a major selling feature of the Tyros (and PSR) instruments.

Yes, the drums on the T4 are vastly improved (from what I've been told), but the overall sound is still "Yamaha"...a sound you don't like very much.

You need 76 keys...Tyros has 61.

Focus on the brands that will give you the sound you are looking for or need, or more accurately, want...don't waste time berating a company who prides itself on it's refined and balanced sound, and who looks after clients far different than you.

All the rhetoric you can muster will not change the good ship Yamaha's course..it is already set, and the destination is, and always was, a profitable one...you're better off spending your time campaigning Roland to make something that would be more suitable for your needs/wants/purposes/style.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 09-21-2010).]

+1

Exactly my thoughts.

Thing is, Ian, that's a rapidly diminishing demographic they are marketing these things to. It won't be long before all the 'home organ' players are in the ground, and then who does Yamaha go after? Better to position themselves for a market segment with a bit more longevity, IMO...

Weird how popular Korg's and Ketron's are with exactly the same demographic that Yamaha appeal to, despite being chalk and cheese in the sound department, too. Who knows, perhaps things aren't QUITE so cut and dry as you like to make out..? I admit, if ONLY Yamaha's sold, a lot of what you say would make sense. But much of it, you have to pretend that Korg, Ketron, Roland, and any other arranger manufacturers don't exist AT ALL or the logic completely falls apart.

BTW, it's flattering you like to address these rebuttals at me in particular, but on a thread where the majority opinion is similar to mine, how about addressing ALL of us?

Diki, I actually DID that on Roland Scatswing. I traded the Scat "drums" for another set and got an excellent Swing pattern.
As mentioned, you can use the Scat voices about once a night, if appropriate for the audience.
DonM

Careful, Don. Don't disagree with Ian...

His head will spin, his eyes will bulge, and all logic and reason will go out the window!

I'm still waiting for you to disappear up your butt again...

Now that's a trick...

Ian

QED...

No, it isn't "rapidly diminishing"...Yamaha's Tyros sales have increased with each new iteration?

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 09-22-2010).]

No way, Diki....even the Great Houdini wouldn't go there.

Ian

I am nomally a well-behaved "old fart" and try very hard to parade my senior tolerance of most things and rants BUT I am about to follow the route of our many normal subscribers , like Scott and others who have decided to use their time , not much of that left I fear where the air is sweeter.

Well I think that Yamaha is showcasing those Scat Voices as a marketing tool.
In order to promote a new product, they have to show that something is actually new in the product. That is why the Scat Voices are featured because they are now including something in a Yamaha arranger that other arrangers had years before.
It would be interesting to see if future demos promote any new things on the T4.


------------------
I have shortened my ID to TTG

Ian and Diki, Diki and Ian, those lines were meant or you in case you didn't notice.

I was reading the thread from top to bottom and had a thought, "wait a minute, these two seem to have a decent conversation, what happened?" and after 2-3 posts, the usual **** comes back.

Anyway, to the point, I noticed that

1) Ian said people asked for scat voices
2) Diki has forked out a small fortune for them at an earlier time

When people have asked for something and they are willing to pay for it, isn't this a good enough reason for Yamaha to include them?

I think this is meant to be the "wow" factor of the keyboard, since if it only improved overall it would seem a smaller step forward. Now you have something to talk about, as was the case with the Irish pipes in earlier models. Most people said "I don't use them but damn those pipes sound awesome"

"Target Marketing" not every musician is a target of this product.

Same reason Ben & Jerry's make over 50 flavors of ice cream and breweries as an industry brew hundreds varieties of beer. Don't like Miller Light not strong enough maybe there's a dark stout that'll have you falling down drunk after a few. Or maybe Gary's Kickapoo Joy Juice is more to your taste, don't like it, don't drink the "Kool Aid."

Iana said: “Yamaha isn't looking for your business at all”.
What a silly and irresponsible thing for a representative of Yamaha to say.

Some one is interested in your product and are asking to implement things that could help increase your bottom line and you tell them to go to your competitor (who makes a similar product to you)?
Just imagine if I went to Roland and told them I want SA type technology in your arranger technology. And just imagine if a representative of Roland told me on a public forum No … we do not want your business and you should go to Yamaha.

No wonder people do not find Iana credible and just think he is one big joke.


------------------
I have shortened my ID to TTG

Well Hello everyone.
I would like to say few words and I also don't want because I know that there will be a lot of comments that I will never have time to read them and also there will be good comment medium comment and bad comment.
I am a pianist and a keyboard player and I have experience more than 15 years.
I tried all Brands I had Ketron, Korg, Roland, Kurzweil, Gem and Yamaha and beleive me after all what I got of experience and after years of hearing and performing I find Yamaha the best voices quality till now.
Styles need to be improved but Drumkits are Fantastic so no need to complain about styles if you can do them by yourself with such Great drumkits.
Those who are complaining about Scrat voices just don't use them and also don't Judge Tyros4 by viewing only 1 Demo or 2 but you have to listen and explore Tyros4 by yourselves and since I have one I know how much it has been improved from Tyros3 specialy Drumkits and Voices with SA2.
Finaly those who doesn't know the VH2 I will tell you it is not to be compared with any other vocal harmonizer specialy Roland G70 it is much better.
At the end all of us here are different from each other from Regions, cultyres, Styles.... each one of us is right by his point of view and wrong by others point of view, so do not blame me for what I wrote this was my point of view.
As I also see a lot of comments that doesn't make sense to me like:
Why should I sell my Tyros3 and get Tyros4?
So for those people I sy that they don'y know their Tyros3 yet and they have never seen a Tyros4 and just trying to be Smart because difference is in Details and it is HUGE.
Thank you all.
Check this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTcNz00hLIc
and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQnnJ8EGRhg&feature=related

And here is what some prefered: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHudN6POFbI&NR=1

and THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oq8oOR84IU

Listen for the difference in quality for GOD SAKE!!!!!!!!!!

See this also to the END you find a lot in it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRERLQDlAUY&feature=related

[This message has been edited by Malika3625 (edited 09-22-2010).]

"Finaly those who doesn't know the VH2 I will tell you it is not to be compared with any other vocal harmonizer specialy Roland G70 it is much better."


So the vocal harmonizer hasnt changed much from previous models on the T4?...thats sad ..

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-22-2010).]

What are you...the post fairy?

Nothing irresponsible or silly about telling the truth.



Again, Genny, you,the "post fairy", flit about with wand in your delicate little hand and pass judgement.


If you went to Roland and told them you want SA type technology in your arranger technology, and if a representative of Roland told you on a public forum "No … we do not want your business and you should go to Yamaha. They already have SA voices."

We would applaud his honesty and good business ethics...we decent people appreciate candidness, and integrity...a lost sale because of being forthright to the customer is never really a lost sale. Why lie? It's obvious in my post that the client, in this case Diki, is not going to buy a Yamaha Tyros because of two reasons...

1. He does not like the "compressed" and highly detailed and smooth sound of Yamaha tone generators...he has admitted this many times on this and other forums.

2. The Tyros4 has 61 keys...Diki needs 76. There is no way I know of replacing the 61 keys with 76, and Yamaha confidently feels that 61 are enough for even advanced home players, the target market for the T4.

Diki is a pro.

Genny, Yamaha wants your business, but not at the expense of selling you a product that does not meet all, or most of, your needs...in other words, if Yamaha did not make trucks, they would not try to sell you a Yamaha car, when you really need a truck. If you were told by some sleazy, soon to be fired salesman, that their cars were able to be used like trucks, the first time you fill the car's trunk (or boot) with dirt and rocks, there may be a bit of a problem.

However, if you were directed to another manufacturer, because you were told "No, we do not make trucks, so go to this brand manufacturer who makes great trucks", would you feel good or bad about such a company?

Have they lost a customer? Maybe this time, but remember, decent people value honesty and integrity, and will buy from, or recommend, that manufacturer when they, or a friend, need a car...they will have established a bond of trust with that company based on being treated with veraciousness and truth.

One or two lost sales due to honest customer qualifying are far better than getting a few sales by duping the clients...a lot of indirect sales would be lost as well, and news of bad reputation not only travels fast, but very far as well, and is difficult to overcome.

Frankie and George Kaye have no problem redirecting clients to where they get the product suited best for their needs, if unable to get it, or stock it, themselves...it's good business policy. Ask them yourself.

Didn't your Mama ever tell you, "Honesty is the best policy"?

If she did, and you haven't followed her advice, you are a poor excuse for a "post fairy"...hand in your wings, Tinkerbell.

Ian

PS...And please tell us, poor mixed up "post fairy"...what part of "No" do you not yet understand?

I believe he means that the VH-2 shouldn't be compared to other harmonizers, especially Roland's, if you really don't know about it (the VH-2), or haven't tried it.

Ian

Again.....it is left to be proven.

Well Donny, Malika3625 says, "but you have to listen and explore Tyros4 by yourselves and since I have one I know how much it has been improved from Tyros3 specialy Drumkits and Voices with SA2."

He seems to have first-hand knowledge, although to be fair, it is his own opinion.

Ian

excactly

Ian,

Anything negative said about Yamaha you defend to a point where you have to trade insults with people. Every single thread about Yamaha has you involved defending the product.

Sorry bro, but it's getting old.

Sorry, I'd agree with you, son, but then we'd both be wrong.

Ian

I guess what I'm saying is take the high road and stop the back and forth with zone members.

Nothing heard on-line can give anyone a honest view on the pro's and con's.

Why? You're doing it.

Don't like what someone does? Don't do it yourself.

Ian

In general...
I feel Ian is correct on one point..
Yamaha does not want my business!

Why do I say that....
Many reasons, the main one is a lot of things I want are not there.

The 2 times I have called Yamaha support for assistance and/or suggestion for a OS update...I have been told 'No...you don't need that, this is a home keyboard, not a PRO instrument'

It seems I'm not alone...Yamaha does not want a lot of people's business!

If Korg comes with what I think they will..AND it gets promoted well...lookout!

Lee S.

No Lee, Yamaha wants customers just like every other manufacturer...they just have a target market that does not include you.

I sold more Tyros3 than I did Tyros2, so sales appear to be getting better rather than getting less...the Tyros4 may be an even bigger seller...time will tell.

Lee, I felt the same way about Roland...they weren't making anything that I wanted...the products were either too heavy, or I didn't like their way of doing things; user programs for instance, but the main deterrent was the weight and bulk.

I used to demo for Roland back in the E-series glory days...they are a fine company, and very focused, much the same way as Yamaha.

I can buy whatever brand I choose for my own personal use...my Roland rep buddy bought an S910 from me, I had a Roland/Boss digital recorder ...we buy what is best for our needs, and if a particular manufacturer doesn't have something to meet them...we buy elsewhere.

It's no big deal.

On your last comment, I truly hope Korg come out with a new TOTL range...competition is what drives these companies, and we the user/player always benefit.

Ian

Ian,
If there target market does not include ME!...THEN, they do not want MY business AS I SAID!

Just because my (and many others) needs and interest in an instrument do not fit their 'target market' does not mean we are any less valuable as potential customers.

They are just missing a piece of market share...that someone else gets.
I was director of marketing for a pretty large group in IBM so I do know a little something about marketing AND competition.
It's really not good to give away ANY business you could have..the old locusts in the wheat field scenario.

Lee S.

Just for once, I'd like to see a list of features that makes an instrument 'pro' as opposed to 'home'.

I, for one, can't think of a single thing on any arranger that a talented home player would not want...

And, I'm sorry, Ian, but I am NOT looking for a truck, when Yamaha DON'T make trucks... Yamaha make trucks. Just really bad ones. I'd like them to make a GOOD truck, as good as their cars. That doesn't seem, to me, to be asking too much...

The thing that disappoints the most, though, in what you post and write is the assumption of the mantle of spokesperson for Yamaha, which you are NOT... I simply wish that your sympathies and empathy extended to your fellow arranger playing musicians, rather than your dogmatic devotion to your chosen brand's policies, no matter HOW unresponsive they are to quite legitimate needs.

I have said, many times, that IF Yamaha made a 76 TOTL arranger, your enthusiasm for it (despite you maybe not using it for gigs... after all you don't use a T3 or CVP either, but will 'defend' them to the last breath) will know no bounds, and you will go 'OF COURSE Yamaha should make a 76 TOTL, it's an obvious need for the home player' or some other form of fanboy gushing...

I'm sorry, but 'Everything Yamaha does is good, and everyone is a moron for suggesting otherwise' is nothing more than dogma. You should show your fellow musicians more consideration than a Japanese corporation, IMO. You have a LOT more in common with us than them, at least. Or at least, I HOPE you do...

Thanks Diki.

Ian

Gosh people, cut Ian some slack.

Let's put it this way. A Mercedes dealer (for example) doesn't want a poor man's business and I'm sure they don't frown upon them either. They prefer to cater to a specific demographic, just like Yamaha.

T4 designers stepped outside the box to bring more professionals in the fold. They seem to forge ahead and add just a bit more each time without sacrificing the platform that makes them so successful.

I kind of admire Ian for sticking to his guns. He believes in his product and not for material gain. I think I'd be insulted too if all I ever read is how the styles are for old people, plastic - you name it.

Thank you, Zuki...I appreciate your kind words.

I work for Yamaha because I want to...they sought me out...and, I am grateful they did...they are great people to work for, and were especially supportive when I was in dire straits many years ago. They have a soul, believe it or not, and very high work ethics. It's a well run, beautifully organized company.

Our Canadian Head Office in Scarborough Ontario is run by real human beings, most of which are accomplished musicians.

I would defend Yamaha as I would an old trusted friend.

Ian

oh boy zuki I see that T4 coming closer day by day .....enjoy it!

Peter Baartmans did a demo Monday at the store. One of the T4 Engineers from Japan was there. A little language barrier but I was able to bring up the "concerns" of many here (mostly non Yamaha users) Do not expect a 76 key Tyros.....Not gonna happen. Seems to me Yamaha is not going after or feels threatened at all by Roland or Korg or any other Arranger maker. They play to their crowd and most do not want a 76 keyboard in the Tyros by a long margin.

They put an XLR jack on the Tyros because "Europeans" asked for it...(why I have no clue. SM58s work as well with 1/4 cables. This "upgrade" made a lot of people happy who believe they need a 6 foot balanced cable and cost Yamaha maybe $2 to implement.

I inquired as to why no phantom power (which would have been a real reason for an XLR jack) Apparently no one asked for that and I figured it is not considered a single solution home/professional "studio" keyboard anyway. (Think Motif) It is a "performance" keyboard used by older people to entertain older people and a home organ replacement for those who yearn for the Lowery days. Neither of which requires a condenser mike.

Yamaha does research and apparently surveys current owners as to what they want and provides what they can. PKowner is a good site for information for them as is Motifactor for the Motif...... They seem to peruse the YAMAHA owners forums, nothing is arbitrary. They apparently do not poll Korg or Roland users as to what "would make them consider a Tyros?" Their OWN market is more important to them and primarily the HOME user who does not want a CVP and those who play out that want a light smaller keyboard that can cover a lot of bases. They don't seem to care about sounding like a "live" band. People in their homes don't know or care what a live band sounds like. They want to hear CD like quality. Those who do play out play to an older crowd who don't care about drums....They listen the whole.

Bottom line is Yamaha will sell Tyros 4 like they sold Tyros 3 and 2 to their fans and 910 owners who will move up to Tyros.
They have sold more with each version, They have continued where others have dropped out of the arranger market. They own the WS market. They already have the Motif for the live players and own 47% of the WS market. Korg's M3 was not match for their M1 or Triton success. Fantom has the Trance and Hip Hop looper crowd. "Kurzweil" is not Kurzweil anymore....

Tyros gets all of Yamaha's new technology first....From there it trickles down to the CVPs and the Motif.

Not to forget this is a TWO year update....Maybe they should have kept it at three? The 910 was a minor upgrade and worth the $50 increase. The Motif XF is a give and take away upgrade. No price increase. Tyros is a decent upgrade.....Is it worth 2 1/2 times the 910? Most of my customers say no by a huge margin.

If I was walking in from the street and after having a Tyros 3 and knowing the 910 would I buy a Tyros? Not at $4500 over $1750. I think either the 910 is under priced or the Tyros overpriced, The gap between is too wide.

One thing Yamaha has they won't mess with are LOYAL users. Yamaha users are as loyal and protective to the brand as they come. Their focus seems to be on CURRENT users not those who might be a user "if"


[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 09-22-2010).]

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 09-22-2010).]

Thanks Kingfrog, that post made a lot of sense.Well at least to me it did.

And it also validates/vindicates (NOT that it was needed imho) what Ian has been saying all along.

Great posting!

Dennis

Did you ask him about the T4 Vocal harmonizer upgrade VH2?... or did he demstrate it?

Well, at least someone with hands on, or "ears on" experience. Thank you Kingfrog.

How did you like the sound? Please comment on that. Since you own a T3, it would be easier for you to make a comparison, I think. Did you get excited? Or it was like "better but not that much"?

The scat voices sound similar to the Technics KN7000, and that is now years ago. I guess better late than never.

Thing is, you ONLY 'play to your crowd', you never grow the brand.

What astonishes me is the resistance to expanding into a market that certainly doesn't LOSE money for Korg and Ketron, and certainly makes money for Yamaha (if I hear that lame excuse that a DGX is a piano with an arranger tacked on one more time, all the while ignoring it is functionally identical to any other 76 or 88 arranger with a piano sound on board, I'm going to to lose it!)...

Once you see the fallacy in the excuses, you are simply left with an unresponsive, timid corporation, too scared to try to open up possibilities for many musicians that HAVE to go elsewhere, right now. And, behind the excusism lies an undeniable fact... adding a 76 to the Tyros and PSR lines is not going to HURT their current customer base. No-one is suggesting that Yamaha STOP making what is already successful for them. The resistance to this idea seems steeped in fear and mistrust, as if ADDING to their diversity would somehow HARM Yamaha. No-one wants that, me included.

No-one has yet, to my satisfaction, PROVED that adding a 76 to the Tyros and PSR lines would lose Yamaha money. And, if it doesn't do that, what possible harm could come from making it? Only their competitors should fear this happening, but right now, they get a free pass and unfettered access to a market that scavenges Yamaha's own sales... After all, should any PSR of Tyros player decide they want a larger keyboard size, they have no CHOICE but to migrate to another manufacturer. There's enough demand for these things that Yamaha make several already (but refuse to acknowledge that they ARE arrangers, as if putting the word 'Piano' on them makes them so!), but anyone wanting to go to a larger Yamaha keyboard from a Tyros or PSR has to make a HUGE backward step in sound and capability.

So they move over to Korg or Ketron (or pick up a good used G70) and Yamaha loses out COMPLETELY.

When such a gaping hole exists in Yamaha's product lineup that other companies exploit and remain profitable, I'm afraid no-one can persuade me that Yamaha are making the right decision. And, once again, I reiterate that, should Yamaha ever correct this mistake, those now baying loudest that NOT making them is EXACTLY the right thing for Yamaha to do will be baying as loudly that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and OF COURSE Yamaha should make them!

And if that isn't dog-like devotion, I don't know what is...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-23-2010).]

Spot on, KF...well said.

Excellent post...you know the business, it's easy to see.

Ian

Yamaha including an XLR input on the T4 only proves that Yamaha can do something that a part of the market wants. Did not their market research tell them that a 1/4 imput was good and no XLR is needed? But because a part of the market said the wanted XLR the made the T4 with XLR and it does not affect those who did not want XLR. Same thing with 76 keys part of the market say they want 76 keys and they could do the same thing with 76 keys. And, the foolishness about there not being a market for 76 keys, remember Yamaha currently makes 76 keys arrangers, they made the PSR 9000 pro and Roland, Korg, Ketron all make 76 keys arrangers. And I still think that is is bad business for a Yamaha representative to say he does not want a significant part of the arranger market. For one, it is bad PR.

------------------
I have shortened my ID to TTG

For some strange reason, I've never had the burning desire to play a 76-key arranger keyboard. I, personally, have always been comfortable with 61 keys. Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm easier to satisfy.

Guess that's probably the case with every other player I know in my area. They're all using 61-keys too. No one seems to complain about a lack of keys other than a handful of individuals on this forum.

So, you have to wonder. If those complaining about Yamaha not having more keys on their PSR or Tyros series really, deep-down, wish they would have purchased a Yamaha? Are they just using the 76-key issue as an excuse for purchasing their current brand? Are they closeted Yamaha users, lurking behind other brand names but secretly playing Yamaha?

Of course I'm only being facetious, mainly to point out how silly all of this really is. This discussion has been going on for nearly as long as I've been here, nothing has changed and nothing is likely to change. Everyone has expressed their PERSONAL viewpoint on the 76 V/S 61 issue in nearly every post, and guess what--no one has ever benefited from all this bickering and bantering. NO manufacturer in the world is going to change anything based upon anything ever posted here--it's just not gonna' happen!

I don't know about anyone else here, but when I purchased my Korg, Roland and Yamaha keyboards, I bought them based upon what I heard coming out of the speakers--not the number of keys. The same holds true for the dozen or more sound systems I've owned over the past several decades. I always figured that if I liked what I heard, my audiences would probably like it too. So far, I have not been wrong on this.

I guess some folks will continue to beat this dead horse until their arms fall off, but I sure would like to see this particular issue come to an end. I, for one, would much rather learn about the neat things you discover with the inner-workings of YOUR keyboard, sound systems, mics, etc.. and how those discoveries could benefit other forum members. The posting of this kind of information was the main reason I originally came to the Synthzone--I learned a lot. And, as old as I am I'm still able to learn.

The 76/61 horse is dead!

Gary

Yamaha already has a significant part of the arranger market.

Telling the truth is never bad PR.

Let it rest Genny...it's now old, battered, and, as Gary said above, "The 76/61 horse is dead!"

Ian

One wonders if Yamaha only made 48 note arrangers, and Ian wanted a 61, whether he would be as complacent about Yamaha's timidity in this market segment. But I guess, as long as YOU are satisfied, who gives a sh*t about what many other people want. eh?

You'll have to banter with the King from now on...

Read the quote again...and try and absorb.

"One of the T4 Engineers from Japan was there. A little language barrier but I was able to bring up the "concerns" of many here (mostly non Yamaha users) Do not expect a 76 key Tyros.....Not gonna happen. Seems to me Yamaha is not going after or feels threatened at all by Roland or Korg or any other Arranger maker. They play to their crowd and most do not want a 76 keyboard in the Tyros by a long margin."

Read it again, Ian...

MOST of the Tyros crowd are happy with a 61... Well, DUH!

If they WEREN'T happy with a 61, they wouldn't BE the 'Tyros crowd'. This is the very definition of a self-fulfilling prophecy. As long as you only poll people happy with 61's, you are ALWAYS going to get a positive response. Kind of like asking motorbike fans whether they would want four wheels!

I have STILL yet to receive ANY explanation why Yamaha are only TOO happy to make 76 and 88 note arrangers, but unwilling to make GOOD ones...

I sincerely hope you do get an explanation.

I feel so terrible to see you all aflutter.

If it isn't too much trouble, please share the explanation with the rest of us here, who are waiting on tenterhooks.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 09-24-2010).]

lets just say Tyros 4 came with and choice 61 or 76.......people would still complain that even though 76 keys the keyfeel, plastic build, etc etc is no good it never ends....,,

Some would, some wouldn't...

I, for one, would LOVE a 76 PSR910 (or the next model based on the T3!). Yamaha's flat sound CAN be worked around, not ALL my keyboards have as good a feel as my G70 (I still play them!).

And I don't want a 76 PSR INSTEAD of my G70... I want it AS WELL!

As much chauvinism as goes on on this forum, you have to assume that quite a bit of the Yamaha 'bashing' comes from those that HAD to choose otherwise because of the preference for a larger keybed. Once you have made that choice, a lot of other baggage gets tossed in to self-justify the decision. There are as many things wrong with Korg and Ketron's 76's (and Roland's last ones) as there are wrong things in a PSR or T4.

But maybe not QUITE as many wrong things as is wrong with Yamaha's current 76 offerings Time for them to make better ones!

Diki.......

Just look at whatever Yamaha's TOTL
76 keyboard arranger or synth, etc.. nd that will tell you what their marketing strategy is targeting....they have done their research and they are happy with the result obviously.

As opposed to their potential customers...

I just don't quite see the POINT of all of you working feverishly to defend Yamaha's position. It speaks for itself, and doesn't really need ANY of you to 'defend' it. And I have a right to continue my quest, whether it is tilting at windmills or not. As I have said, many times, everybody just KNOWS what Yamaha are and aren't going to do, until they do something different. I am sure, prior to the 9000pro's debut, that Ian (or someone just like him) were frantically explaining to everyone that Yamaha would NEVER make a TOTL 76. And then they DID...

That it failed had NOTHING to do with the key size. It plain sucked (and so did it's 61 stablemate).

So, you all keep rolling your eyes, and sticking out your tongues, and generally making fools of yourselves. I will continue to ask for something that every other arranger manufacturer makes, and stays profitable (you think Korg don't have accountants? ), and I will NOT quit posting about it. It is, in my view, a legitimate request. YOU, on the other hand, are not making a legitimate refusal. Just ill-reasoned 'excuses'...

And the egg will be firmly on your faces the day that Yamaha make ANOTHER TOTL arranger with a 76. That it won't happen eventually is no more conjecture than it WILL...

diki I wish they do make a 76 to your liking....I prefer a 61 but that is me ....what anyone else enjoys is not my concern...Yamaha, Ketron, Korg, Roland , I have played them all on stage.....all I care about is If I like it and it does what I need to make a living as a musician.
I am not defending anything.....good luck on your quest but right now I'd say stick with your G70 & make great music..

Roland really disappointed their loyal users by discontinuing the E-60, and of course, the G-70.

They were rare birds here in the Maritimes, Brian, although I did have a chance to play both, and I thought they were terrific instruments.

Does the E-60 use the same type SmartMedia cards we use in the PSR-3000, which are 3.3V (3V) SmartMedia?

Ian

Boys and Girls...my God..this is not rocket science..Yamaha should make a 76 note offerng..PERIOD...it is easy for them.

Why not pick up a bunch more customers..get them hooked like the others are!!

Whoever the guy in the meeting stopping this should be releived of command!
And he can take Obama with him!

The Tyros 4(PSR910 as well) has become just too good of instrument to hide behind this 'It's a home keyboard crap anymore'
It is a PRO sounding instrument!

You just can't fix stupid!
Man....why leave money on the table???

Lee S.

"The 76/61 horse is dead!? "

The extra 15 keys allows you to play the keyboard as close to a piano as possible.

61 keys doesn't.

It's just a preference that some people like.

Arms getting tired yet?

But you can attack Roland to deflect attention away from stupid...

Ahhh... Canadian salesmanship at its' best...

Still not tired???

Ian, the way you respond to other people's posts is very condescending and unpleasant.

It's a downer for me to look at this board and to see this immature stuff.

I agree with most others on this board that it would be a great idea to have a 76 key version of the T4, just like there are 61 key, 76 key, and 88 key versions of the Motif (at least I'm pretty sure that there are). No one should be insulted for saying that they want this feature or that they won't buy a keyboard unless it has it.

I would probably stick with a 61 key keyboard, because I go by what would fit in the trunk of my car.

Whether it's a good marketing decision on the part of Yamaha, maybe it's not now, but markets change.

I think that people should be able to voice what they don't like about Yamahas, whether it's a canned sound, weak drums, poor vocalizer, or 61 key only without being attacked. I love my Yamaha, but it isn't an extension of my phallus, so if you want to flame my keyboard, be my guest.

Beakybird

Great choice, Beaky.

I love my Yamaha too.

Ian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phallus

Brian,

If they are the same...I may be able to help.

Here's some info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmartMedia

Ian

I love this place!!

Email me, Brian.

Ian