OK, with permission...here is a guy on the Korg Forums you-tube site.
He is LiM...

This is an example of what I like an play Getting back to the playing part wih lots of practice now) It's just an example, many other performances wold be similar is technique.
http://www.youtube.com/lessismore9999#p/u/13/_H1CwXx2esA

I think here 61 would be difficult...he is using at least 4 zones. I think he would be out of real estate with 61.

Check out his other songs...he is quite good. IMHO.

Also...notice the vocals are triggered with velocity. As a second voice.
He makes a couple mistakes..don't we all?

Lee S.

[This message has been edited by leeboy (edited 10-08-2010).]

For the most part, playing what he played is very possible on a 61...just set up registrations for the various splits in the RH, or Upper as I sometimes think of it.

He wasn't playing much out of 61 note range, except in one part where he did the pan flute(?) an octave higher.

I can split the S910 to have two sounds on the upper, although, in regards to my style of music and playing, I rarely use that feature.

Thanks for the demo, Lee...I understand where you are coming from much better now, and, yes, perhaps a 76 would suit you best.

Ian

PS...I agree, the guy is a good player.

Ian,
Thanks for listening...
Yes, I agree you could do that kind of thing on 61..it's just that if you do a lot of it 76 is much better, especialy if it gets pretty complex...that song, 'good, bad, and the ugly' is not all that complex.
And if you want 3 splits on the RH.

I do love it though...my kind of thing you know.

I love the vocals (second voice)that get trggered by velocity..on his RH, while the srings are still going as well.

Lee S.

If I'm going to play JUST piano, then yes, a wood 88 every time... But if I have to play that AND organ parts, AND synth parts, and splits AND any other damn thing they want me to (or I want to!), and I don't feel like hauling two or three keyboards around (a PSR and a wood 88, in cases, would outweigh my portly G70 by quite a bit!), I have little choice.

Just about ANY one keyboard choice is an exercise in compromise, there's no ONE choice that perfectly covers all the bases (or we would ALL be using it!), so size and type decision is mostly an exercise in damage control! Which size compromises you the LEAST..?

For me, that has to be a plastic 76. Big enough to play proper piano parts if you HAVE to play them, light enough to play organ parts if you HAVE to play them, big enough to split into sizable sections if you HAVE to play a lot of splits, and no need to haul two keyboards around unless doing the most uncompromising studio parts. And that AIN'T what an arranger is all about!

I've got a feeling that, if I ever did ONLY arranger gigs, and HAD to use a 61, I could get used to it. But I doubt I would ever feel truly happy about it...

I prefer the familiarity and comfort of using just ONE keyboard I am intimately familiar with for ALL my live work rather than one rig for arranger, another rig of multiple keyboards for live band, another rig for studio. Once you go beyond 'pure' arranger play, at least FOR ME, I think that the 76 is basically your ONLY choice for a one keyboard rig...

Right now, Yamaha simply don't offer you the opportunity to find out for yourself whether, if they DID make a lightweight 76 PSR, you would choose to use it. But I have a sneaky suspicion that, if they did, you might find those same priorities (the ability to use ONE piece of gear for everything) might become very appealing...

There's no doubt having a 76 note arranger works best for your purposes, and it's great that you've got one (actually two) that does it all for you.

I feel the same way about the S910...if I was gigging a lot, I'd have two of them.

It's the perfect arranger for me...light weight, incredible sounds, inexpensive enough to buy two if needed, all the functions and features I want, speakers, easy operating system, superb third party support, very reliable...and, a lovely smooth fast actioned five octave keyboard.

So, let's just be glad we both have what we want...you trying to convince me to go with a 76, is just as futile as me trying to convince you to use a 61...as you might have noticed, I am not trying to do the latter, so why not just be happy for me that I've got what I want, instead of trying to persuade me that your way is best.

For you it is...for me, it's not.


Ian

Ian great common sense post thank you for for sorting this out.

I'm not trying to convince you to go to a 76 Ian... Yamaha don't make one... not gonna happen!

BUT... if the opportunity ever DID arise, you might be able to judge how well they would work for you without the bad taste that changing to another brand altogether (or putting up with a lousy DGX or NP-80v) would put in your mouth. After all, if you never had HAD the opportunity to find out if it might work for you better than the current situation, you can't really say it wouldn't be your choice.

Sure, what you have NOW works perfectly for how you play, NOW... But a large amount of HOW you play depends on the capabilities of WHAT you play. And all of us, no matter how old we get, should like to consider that we can grow, musically. If more capability can be added to your arranger, at the cost of little gain in weight and size, and ZERO loss in sound and operational ease, it might be harder to make that decision to eschew it if you actually DID have the choice.

It's all well and good to theorize about what we MIGHT do under a set of theoretical circumstances, but if life has taught me anything, it's that we never REALLY know what we are going to do until the circumstances actually arrive!

Never say never!

"Now", is all we have Diki...you don't get any more, or any less, "now" than I do.

What I sell when I gig, is arranger music.

61 keys is perfect for my needs.

I usually don't buy with "but if's" in mind...I buy the right tool for the job I'm doing now.

If a gig requires I play solo piano and arranger, it's not a great pain to carry my P-85 with me at all, and I'd prefer the slight compromise of the extra instrument, to the big compromise of having to play solo piano on unweighted keys.

You know, I've never sat down at a Tyros or PSR and wished they had more keys.

When I had the G-70 here, I found playing solo piano on it unacceptable..it was like playing an NP-30, which I would not buy for my piano work...hence the P-85.

So, the bottom line for me is to use two instruments when the very rare instance of being asked for both arranger and solo piano playing.

It works for me, and I'm all I have to please.

Ian

Good points...

Only thing I'd take a bit of issue with is the comparison of the G70 with the NP30, which is like comparing diamonds and soot! Both carbon...

I actually CAN play piano pretty decently on the G70 (you've got used to doing at least limited piano on even the PSR keybed, so I know you know it can be done!), but that NP30 keybed is featherweight, without even a TRACE of key mass and resistance, IMO. It might be piano SHAPE, but that's about where it stops.

Few people that have ever played a G70 have anything but unqualified praise for its' action, even though many don't like the weight penalty you get for all that extra key mass...!

I have said for quite a long time that we need more than self-serving marketing division descriptions of key feel, and need some sort of common descriptor of TRUE weight and resistance to allow for a better written description of their feel. I hate to say it, but IMO, the NP-30 needs to be described as UN-weighted, at least if you are going to use semi-weighted to describe things like the G70.

Just as not all 61's feel the same, 76's vary wildly too. Yamaha. as a piano manufacturer in the truest sense of the word, should feel ashamed to use the term 'piano' and 'graded touch' for this keyboard. I'm sorry, but if you can't bring yourself to play piano parts on a G70, there's NO WAY you could recommend this (or the DGX's) to anyone wanting to play a piano part. If you needed even MORE proof that neither the DGX's nor the NP-80v are anything BUT arrangers (despite Yamaha refusing to market them in the arranger division), the fact that even YOU wouldn't want to play piano on them should be all you need!

It wasn't meant as a slight...they are both too light for piano playing (for me) and both are 76 notes.

The DGX's and the NP-80v are called piano based arrangers, but the former use weighted action keys, while the latter use a lighter action and piano shaped keys, with graded touch...Yamaha can call them whatever they want...it's their product.

I'd much prefer a combination of DGX and NP-80V, with the arranger style engine (4 variations)from the S-series.

Considering a P-85 can weigh 25 lbs (with speakers), that should give us an arranger with 76 weighted action keys, the S-series style engine, and something near 25-28 lbs.

If we are going with 76 keys, may as well make it feel like a piano, otherwise we are stuck with another G-70, PA2XPro or Audya.

You may feel differently, but the bottom line still is that Yamaha aren't going to make a 76 note TOTL or MOTL arranger until they feel there is a decent market for one, not just go by a few people on a forum, most of which would not buy a Yamaha no matter how many keys it has.

Talk is cheap.

Ian





[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-09-2010).]