What you don't understand, is that a company,(Yamaha, Ketron, Korg etc) does not owe you an explanation why they don't make a particular product.

You were already informed by a Yamaha rep about this issue, so consider yourself lucky.

Most companies wouldn't tell you a damn thing.

Ian

PS...did a Roland rep tell you why they didn't implement the chord sequencer you harped about incessantly, both here, and on Roland Arranger.com?

Did a Roland rep tell you exactly why they stopped making high/mid range arrangers?

Sorry Taike, you are missing the argument...Not cancel 61's, ADD the 76.

Dennis

I asked just in case Yamaha decided to cancel 61 keys and only have 76 keys available. I know it's not going to happen but some clearly stated that they wouldn't want 76 keys. So would they all jump ship or be willing to accept what they dislike so much?

Taike

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Bo pen nyang.

[This message has been edited by Taike (edited 10-15-2010).]

Yamaha apparently sees no logical reason (and certainly no demand from their own loyal user base) for 76 keys. Why? Because they don't have to. People who play these things prefer a LIGHTER and smaller footprint keyboard. If that means plastic and 61 keys...there's your sign...Yamaha can be blamed for a lot of strange choices. Knowing who their customers are and what THEY want is not one of them.

Lets face facts here. This would be an EASY and cheap implementation within the current shell even (almost as easy and cheap as an XLR mike input W/O phantom power)

So there can only be one reason they don;t do it........People who matter to them don't want or need it. There are few who would buy a Tyros with 76 keys over what they have now...so why risk a winning combo for a handful of naysayers who would not be customers anyway??



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-15-2010).]

OK, let's flip the coin over. How many Roland, Korg, Audya, etc.. buyers that are currently playing with 76 keys would buy the same brands if only 61 key models were offered? Yeah--right!

Simple answer for me Gary, nope I wouldn't be playing them

I'd find one that worked for me (OR a system that worked). I would not complain that they didn't, rather, I would just find one that did.

There is usually always a solution. One just needs the motivation to find it

I have found that complaining after the fact, has not changed one single event in my life

Dennis

Once again, the COMPLETE refusal by Ian et al. to admit that Yamaha DO make 76 arrangers... Talk about beating a dead horse! That argument, once you admit the very existence of the DGX. YPG and NP-80v (arguing whether they are arrangers or not is pure semantics) is OVER...

What Yamaha have is a VERY poor product line-up... Overlaps and gaps, not a smooth transition from one end of the spectrum to the other. And the MOTL 76 falls into one of those gaps. They have low end 76's, they have high end 88's (mind you, not as high as the 61's), but no MOTL 76. And while other companies find profit in selling MOTL and TOTL 76's, no amount of 'market research' bullsh*t is going to convince me that Yamaha have even TRIED to plumb this market. They simply have gaps in their product line-ups (that other companies don't have) because they split the one market up into two competing divisions. One makes the 76's, the other gets the current technology.

No other reason for it than this arbitrary corporate structuring. Any attempt to put a logical, customer related spin on it simply has to disregard SO MUCH factual evidence, it starts to border on religion!

The arranger division develops the technology, and guards it as jealously as they can for as long as they can, and the 'home piano' division (the one that makes the 76 note arrangers) sits around, twiddling its' thumbs, waiting for the meager dregs the get eventually tossed to them. The fact that Yamaha's TOTL 88 Clavinova, FAR more expensive than a T4, has technology in it barely the equivalent of a T2 shows exactly how much emphasis Yamaha put on 'market research'... Do you honestly think that someone who payed THAT MUCH for Yamaha's TOTL 88 arranger is actually HAPPY they got shafted?

If Yamaha had ONE division that dealt with ALL arranger sales (calling a cheap plastic unweighted 76 arranger a piano doesn't make it one in the slightest), I have absolutely no doubt they would be producing MOTL and TOTL 76's exactly the same as everyone else.

That argument doesn't really apply, Gary, since all the brands you mentioned DO have the option of 61 and 76 keys.

Let me make it clear once again that I don't care what brand one favors. Neither do I have anything against Yamaha. Neither have I seen others bash Yamaha. They're not wrong in wanting something even if their wish might not be granted. Shouldn't that be more frustrating to them then to those that already have what they want? One is still free to ask, right?

In a way all these arguments are contradictory. After all, most want styles of other brands. If one brand is THAT good, why the need for the other brands' styles? It proves that not ONE brand has it ALL so bashing is plain silly. Again, haven't seen anyone resort to bashing. Personal perception is just that...personal. Nothing to lose sleep over.

For the record, anyone is free to "bash" my choice of keyboard for it wouldn't bother me in the least. It's just an object to me. Now if they want to waste their time bashing an object, that's their loss, not mine.

I'm happy with whatever I play. Heck, even a Bontempi would be great if I had no other choice. All 61 and 76 keys fans would be more then willing to compromise if they had only ONE choice unless they're die-hard fanatics. For the latter, the best choice would be to pick up another instrument or give up music altogether... or play CDs.

Taike

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Bo pen nyang.

Yep, sorry, Gary. If NO-ONE made 76 arrangers, I wouldn't be playing arrangers at all! I might have a cheap 61 sitting at home, to help make quick SMF's, but I wouldn't gig it in a million years!

I already bruise my pinky bad enough sitting in on the occasional 61

You could, in fact, ask yourself the almost exact same question... If Yamaha ceased making 61's, and ONLY made 49's, would you move to a company that still made 61's?

So, you believe that Yamaha does not have one division that deals with all arranger sales, and that's the reason why there are no 76 note TOTL/MOTL arrangers being made?

Now, if you really believe you are correct, then there's no reason for you to have any trouble accepting the fact that Yamaha does not make 76 note TOTL/MOTL arrangers.

If you're still having trouble, then it will be obvious you don't actually believe what you are saying.

Well, I'm glad that's over with...and so are many others, I'm sure.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-15-2010).]