The Prelude and GW-8 are Roland's attempt to get the BOTL market. They don't have the capabilities of the E60 or G70. BOTL is dominated by the 61's, no reason for Roland, who are obviously struggling to find a reason to stay in the arranger business at all (and who can blame them, as young players are giving them a wide berth) to try to invent a new market segment. This point has always been about MOTL and TOTL arrangers. Yamaha already make 76 BOTL arrangers. You don't hear me crusading for one of THOSE... If I were, I can guarantee that I would be as critical as you of no 76 GW-8 or Prelude.

Whether Yamaha choose to fill in the gaping gaps in their product lineup to compete against Korg and Ketron, Wersi and Lionstracs (LOL to that last one!) is up to them. But as many PA2Xpro's and Audya's as get sold, for Yamaha to not want a piece of that is a bit strange.

The market DOES exist for a 76 PSR... For Yamaha, it would be players wanting to upscale from the DGX line or YPG's, etc.. Currently, they leave them NO option but to migrate to another manufacturer. I don't know about you, but that hardly seems good sense for any company, especially, as I keep saying, as LITTLE as Yamaha would have to do to make one. Simply place all the S910 electronics in a slightly larger case with a 76 (maybe even a DGX case) and voila! The DGX910...

You trying to tell me that you would have TROUBLE selling one of those, Ian? To existing DGX players?

REALLY...?

And there I was, thinking you had actually READ this thread...!

I WOULD buy one, if offered. I want SA sounds, I want Mega guitars, I want an arranger for background gigs, and I don't want to pay Tyros prices!

I could make the Yamaha 'sound' work for me, but I can't make the 61 do the same. Much of my playing is piano based, and 76 is a MINIMUM I am willing to work with. I probably wouldn't take it out for band gigs, but put me in a solo position doing light cocktail and dining music, I can't think of a better axe than a 76 S910 (or DGX910!).

What else in the @$2000 range comes close? All 76's apart from toy DGX's etc. are in the $3500 range. And none of them have SA voices and that Yamaha compressed sound. I already GOT a good expensive ballsy 76. I want a cheap smooth one. 61 players have this option. 76 players WOULD like it, too. As I keep saying, I see absolutely NO correlation between the sound you want, and the number of keys you need. They are utterly independent factors. It's not like Korg offer the PA series in ONLY a 76, or Ketron, now... They obviously see that BOTH sizes sell, despite the exact same engine.

Wish Yamaha saw it that way. All it would take, for all the scary talk or corporate 'restructuring', would be Yamaha allowing the DGX division to have access to the full PSR's technology. Hardly a dramatic change. And, if done from the DGX side, no scavenging of existing sales... Maybe a 76 PSR would scavenge sales away from the DGX's, but a DGX910 wouldn't scavenge ANY sales away from the PSR's, from what I can gather here... And up-selling is every company's dream, isn't it?

If the market does exist is not really the issue...it's how this market is perceived by Yamaha.

Obviously they don't intend to make one, regardless of whatever reasons we speculate are behind it.

I can only pass on the reason I was told when I asked for a 76'er...KingFrog got the same answer...you talked with a rep who confirmed what Froggy and I were told.

They won't make one, or change their corporate structure to make one( if that is the reason) until something prompts them to make a change.

I doubt if this thread will do it, as we have had discussions very similar to this after the Tyros, Tyros2 and Tyros3, and all that posting failed to produce a 76'er.

We've also discussed a 76-note PSR, although if ever a 76'er gets made, I'm almost certain it would be based on a TOTL.

I still think Spalding had the best suggestion with the poll, but, it would entail a lot of work, and I don't think anyone is THAT interested to go through all that trouble.

With excellent alternatives by Korg, and to a lesser extent, Audya and Wersi, there's no need to go without 76 if one has to have one...a second hand E-60 or G-70 is a good buy.

Why wouldn't you go for a Korg PA2Xpro...there are plenty second hand, and with your skills at style editing, the fills shouldn't be an issue?

I really think Roland might have had luck with a 76 GW-8...certainly no competition in that price bracket..well, maybe Casio, but they don't have the cachet of the Roland name.

Ian

PS...No, I'm not trying to spin the thread in another direction...I just think it would be prudent to look at alternatives.

Agree...The silly thing is Roland have the future market staring them in the face...if only they would see it.

Create an keyboard with the quality sampling of the the XS/XF series, but with that unique Roland "flavour" with bucketloads of quality arps and an "arp engine", BUT also include the arranger engine from say the G70 (or an improved version). But do not identify it as such. Maybe call them Arp Link Pads or something

Throw in flash for user samples and there it is...

Dennis

I dunno, guys... The 76 TOTL market is already saturated. Unless you MUST have a Yamaha, your needs are already covered. I simply see a gaping hole in the MOTL 76 area, and see little REAL reason (I'm TIRED of having some Yamaha rep say 'there's no demand' when for a FACT, I know that existing users of 76's have NEVER been asked about it... 'there's no demand from 61 users' is what they are REALLY saying )

Once you put it in terms that don't threaten PSR players cherished beliefs (can't think why else they get so all-fired worked up about it) and talk in terms of a MOTL DGX, perhaps it makes a LOT more sense. After all, if DGX's have a market, why NOT offer them an upward path? Unlike 61's which steadily progress through MOTL and TOTL levels, Yamaha simply say, for 76 users, BOTL and NO FURTHER...

I don't CARE what a PR flack says. I can see the obvious, even if they can't...

' quote::Originally posted by to the genesys:

The persons who will buy a Roland G70, Pa2x pro, Audya 76, MS are not the same persons who will buy a lightweight compact Yamaha 76 key arranger.

And there I was, thinking you had actually READ this thread...!

I WOULD buy one, if offered. I want SA sounds, I want Mega guitars, I want an arranger for background gigs, and I don't want to pay Tyros prices!

I could make the Yamaha 'sound' work for me, but I can't make the 61 do the same. Much of my playing is piano based, and 76 is a MINIMUM I am willing to work with. I probably wouldn't take it out for band gigs, but put me in a solo position doing light cocktail and dining music, I can't think of a better axe than a 76 S910 (or DGX910!).'

And thats just the begining diki. Even amongst the few that said on this forum they wanted a yamaha 76 key arranger you cant agree on what kind of 76 key arranger the market wants !!

Its all very well expressing what you want in an arranger but its only when you talk to other potential buyers that you may discover that your view of the 'gap in the market' you think yamaha should plug may not be as large as you think or the same as the guys that agreed with you in principle !

Thats precisely why you need to conduct a proper survey and get more opinions on the 76 Key arranger market that you think is so profitable.....other than your own.

Even in your small sample of 10 , 8 wanted a 76 Key yamaha arranger and of those 8 ,1 thought the 76 key arranger market might not buy precisely the product you say you would !!

And i would guess that within that remaining group of 7 there would still be quite different visions of the 76 key arranger that they all said they wanted .

I doubt yamaha will make the PSR76 910 or PSrfantom XF (pro) for TTG and a YamahaPA3XZ (pro with speakers) for me etc.

Just which 'gap in the market' is yamaha supposed to fill ?????

You dont have to convince anyone here about what you think the 76 key arranger market needs. Convince yamaha !!!



[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 10-21-2010).]

Why's it MY job? Either Yamaha want my money or they don't.

But, when I know for a FACT that Yamaha have NEVER polled the very segment they say there's no demand for, simply taking as dogma that everything they do MUST be right is idiotic.

It's like asking non-voters who they want in the Senate... Who CARES what THEY think? They aren't going to decide the issue.

When I receive a poll from Yamaha, and when every other person that plays a 76 gets a poll from Yamaha, THEN, if Yamaha don't make one, I'll know they have done their job. Currently, I know they haven't.

Ball's in their court, not mine.

Precisely!!

If you are satisfied with your view, does that make the 76'er any closer?

We can debate "why" all we want, but that is a waste of time.

This thread offers no hard proof, no numbers...neither did the last discussions.

Give them incentive, and you'll be more likely to get results.

Ian

PS... I believe a 76 note TOTL would be far more likely than a PSR based instrument.

Seems to be a 'waste of time' that you have PLENTY of time for...

I would say that Yamaha could make the point that if you want a larger keyboard TOTL arranger, that's what the Clavinova's are... (even though we both know they are nowhere NEAR a T4). But Yamaha have NO MOTL larger arranger whatsoever. Personally, and especially with your own preference for the MOTL over the TOTL (and these economic times) I would have thought you would have gone for the DGX910.

After all, let's just assume that Yamaha actually made them... Which of them do you think you would have the easier job selling?

Thought so...