To be honest Ian, I think you have shown quite some resilience to continue replying

I would have given up in frustration ages ago.

I do respect these other guys, and what they have said, but, I mean, they said their bit about two weeks ago!!! Its been all repeats since then...sheesh even the ads are more interesting!!

Good to see you have finally decided to just let the rambling go on with no further response. Gives the rest of us a break too, because sooner or later with no further from you, the redundant pounding of this theme will stop.

Thanks for being the one to end it It is appreciated.

Dennis

+1

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TTG

You're welcome Dennis.

In this situation, giving up was the only way to win.


Ian

Now that we have gotten rid of childish play, getting back to DNJ’s original topic, “Would You Buy A Tyros 4 with 76 keys?”

I think one think that has been overlooked is whether or not Yamaha would increase the price. There is always that possibility, but I don’t see any legitimate reason for them to do so at this time. Provided that they don’t make radical changes to the chassis of the keyboard. The T4 as other have pointed out as it stand right now has a lot of real-estate and a 76 key should be able to be fitted in to the current physical board.
I think the major point is not whether it has 76 keys but whether it would be bigger and heavier than a T4. If it is then yes it could affect sales and some persons would not buy a 76 key T4. So the issue is not 76 vs 61, but whether the keyboard is light and small.
Personally, I don’t see Yamaha making a 76 key T4. I think what is more likely is a 76 key PSR S 910 successor. Yamaha would settle the argument by having such a keyboard. Only time will tell.


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TTG

IMHO...It would be darned stupid to make a MOTL 76 arranger.
Most of the MOTL buyers are looking at cost...So you think they would pony up another several hundred $$ to have 76..NO WAY HOSE'

Sure a few of the gigiing PRO's might...(light weight)but that IMO is not the majority of MOTL arranger buyers.

So, IF Yamaha ever decides to enter the PRO arranger world with Korg and Ketron..it needs to be a very TOTL unit. All the bells & whistles.

1) 76, high qualty semi-weighted
2) FULL MIDI implentation
3) Editig at a much deeper level
4) More flexibiliy in the OS
5) functons to make yur own SA & SA2 voices
6) better build quality
7) Black metal case?

Well, I don't think it should even be a Tyros
Something new...mabe a mix of the Tyros and a Motif.

I'm not holding my breath for it :-)

SO...My revised answer is NO...I probably would not buy a 76 Tyros..BUT, I would buy a 76 TOTL arranger if it had what I want.
(Tyros + + + with advanced features)

Lee S.

Seems like plenty of people are buying MOTL Yamaha 76's... enough for them to continue making them. Fair number buying Yamaha BOTL 76 arrangers too. Of course, disregard that last sentence if you are still under the delusion that DGX's, YPG's and NP-80v's AREN'T Yamaha 76 arrangers...

And you know what? The reason this thread goes around and around and around basically boils down to Ian's self-appointed position as spokesperson for Yamaha. You see, were Ian to simply say that HE doesn't see the need for a 76, well, it would be easy to ignore his position. But he chooses to speak FOR Yamaha. And, unfortunately, his blunt (to the point of insult), stoic and stubborn attitude, once in the guise of Yamaha's actual position, garners the exact response that anything worded so uncaringly from a corporation would get, anywhere.

'It's our position, because it's our position' is something that too strongly resembles your mother telling you 'Because we TOLD you!' rather than a REAL explanation. Once you see past all the fallacies in Ian's explanations to questions like 'other companies make a profit on TOTL and MOTL 76, why can't Yamaha?' or 'Yamaha actually DO make 76 arrangers, just BAD ones - why is that?' and you get the response, apparently the official Yamaha line (according to Ian), of 'No... not gonna happen. Go away. Learn to take no for an answer' ad nauseam, you start to think you actually ARE addressing Yamaha.

And, personally, I won't take THAT attitude off of ANY corporation. Give me a reasonable explanation, that actually fits the FACTS (rather than inventing them), and I'll go away happy. But when 'we can't make money off them', while other companies DO, well, I'm insulted you'd even try that paper-thin excuse. And 'Stop bugging me, I told you NO!'... well, that doesn't even need me to tell you how insulting that is.

I'm a serious customer. I've bought thousands of dollars of Yamaha products over my career. If they made the product I want, I'd buy it. A LOT of people would buy it. If a 76 PSR was offered, just exactly how many DGX's do you think would sell..? I bet NOT ONE!

And THAT, my friends, is the REAL reason they are not being made. Nothing to do with no-one would buy them. Nothing to do with no demand. It's simple corporate protection of a division that has made a product that doesn't compete with another product from another division. So they invent an artificial barrier, to protect the competing divisions from their own idiocy. Truth is, the customer loses, and the corporation loses, and no-one involved in this decision wants to admit it.

But Ian... quit speaking for the company, and we'll quit constantly bringing up the subject. At least, we'll quit addressing our needs and concerns to YOU. And, without your responses, well, that's 50% of the entire traffic GONE...!

Takes two to have an argument. You stay out of it, it's a monologue (at least, position-wise... there's PLENTY here want what I do!). But, if reading over and over that someone's REAL needs are being unfulfilled by your religion (oops! meant corporation! ) is setting your teeth on edge, better get used to US saying 'No!' as much as you like saying it!

Yamaha have changed their position in the past. That means they CAN in the future. If they NEVER made 76's, I'd say it was a lost cause. But they do now, they have in the past, and will probably continue to. All we are asking is a TINY change in emphasis.

Sorry, chum, but if you want this conversation to cease, you are going to have to stop acting as an ad hoc spokesman for Yamaha. I already know YOU don't want a Yamaha 76. But when you choose to speak for Yamaha, don't be so astonished that 'No!' is not an acceptable answer.

Please Diki, enough already...
Ian has not spoken for Yamaha, he has said what he thinks Yamahas policy is based on his experience with them, right or wrong, for better or worse.

If they (Yamaha) think it will eat DGX sales or will not sell a bucketload, well thats YAMAHA's decision, not Ian's. I am certain the board of Yamaha do NOT consult him even about the weather, let alone on future sales strategy!!

He quite clearly said he PERSONALLY was not interested in a 76, but could see others may want one.

END OF....Please mirror Ian's decision to retire from this and we can all go back to enjoying each others posts.

And now I am taking a Forrest Gump
".....and thats all I am going to say about that!!!"

Dennis

Diki,

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to continue this debate about the Tyros4 with you any longer.

It's becoming tiresome for me, and I'm sure, many others here on SZ, as you appear unable to understand a simple, but truthful, answer, and, the result is that the discussion is now becoming rather repetitive.

You got the same answers from another Yamaha rep, and he wisely chose to stay out of these no-win debates, and, now I'm following his example.

I'm very satisfied that I made my point, and that's as far as I need to take things...if you can't or won't believe me, then that's your problem...not mine.

So, as with Genny, it's nothing personal...you can choose to say what you wish, but I'm no longer going to be a part of the discussions regarding Yamaha's policies for arrangers.

Best wishes,

Ian

BTW...I do want a 76...but with weighted hammer action.

Too bad...! If only you were content with 88, you'd have several choices, including Yamaha. Mind you, if 88 was OK, you would then have to start questioning why Yamaha choose to put much older technology in the 88 case than they do in the 61. And I would HATE to see a man question his religion!

And, sorry, guys, but I am about as likely to take a directive off of you guys to give up on a subject dear to heart as you are if I TELL you to quit posting on any other subject, either. Don't want to read my posts? Well, that's what the 'Back' button is for!

Thanks Dennis...again, giving up was the only way to win.

I will continue to discuss other topics, regarding Yamaha arrangers, but I'm no longer going to be a part of the 76 note vs. 61 debate.

Ian