Hi guys.

I just want to share my feelings on this because I think for the first time ever I am utterly content with my sound and the ability of the two keyboards I have. Obviously it started when I got the OASYS as I downsized my Studio heavily because I felt HD-1 made everything else PCM based I owned at the time obsolete, and all the other engines gave me the tools to be ultra creative when designing sounds. That and the clarity of the OASYS sound and it's ability to be used in a mix without ever giving me problems with the spectrum being overloaded and muddy makes the OASYS an utter dream machine to work with on countless levels. Truly a KORG masterpiece of the highest order that is so good sounding it's almost impossible to explain to anyone who does not own an OASYS.

However, regardless of the label it once had, it is not an open keyboard, not even close, and it is something that KORG were able to discontinue unexpectedly which has also defined the value of the investment in the OASYS. I'm not going to list out the points and reason why because it's been said countless times on the forum and at the end of the day, it is what it is and at this point I'm happy with that and I do love the OASYS for all it is.

That said though, this is where the Mediastation steps in as the perfect companion.

From an investment point of view first, the Mediastation is a true Open keyboard that is technically unlimited. To be more accurate, my unit in it's current configuration is only limited by the speed and ability of the CPU, Motherboard and RAM that's installed. If years from now I need more power I can just replace those parts and I have a current model again. The Lionstracs OS is open ended and those who bought a keyboard 6 years ago are still getting free OS updates, the exact same OS updates the people with the latest keyboards are getting. Beyond that again you then have the fully open part of the system which allows you to install your own software or favourite programs, VSTi's or massive Giga Libraries. So even if at some point Lionstracs stop developing the OS for my model, the system is still open always to accept new software.

It offers way more than just a PC too. The Lionstracs OS allows you to integrate anything new you install with the custom Lionstracs interface. When I select sound for example from massive giga libraries, I do not load any software or have to interact with a PC interface. I select the sounds no differently than I do on my OASYS. So you do get the tight integration of a closed system, plus all the benefits of an open system at the same time. Dedicated buttons control everything too which makes operation of the system extremely tightly integrated. I can call entire VSTi's setups at the press of a single button and jump between multi setups at the press of a button.

Now pair all that with the OASYS and where do you go after that ?

It's got to be one of the most powerful combinations of technology around. Open Labs don't even fit into this as an alternative because they are not even close to being as tightly integrated at the OS level as Liosntracs keyboards. An Open Labs keybaord is for the most part just a PC in a keyboard assembly.

Maybe in the future KORG will take the OASYS concept and allow it to evolve into a true open keyboard with all the benefits of OASYS technology, but at this moment in time I have to say that I must have the ultimate setup anyone could have right now and I feel like telling people about it.

Bottom line... KORG + Lionstracs = The future now. If I were an arranger user, give me a Pa2X and Lionstracs and I'd feel the same way.

Regards
James

I feel exactly the same way about my Wersi, I can add anything I want, the PC hardware is upgradable and I can add any third party sounds etc., I want, as well as being easy to use, which is why for me personally, I prefer it above the others out there.
Others will have different requirements, and so will choose an instrument that suits them. (There is no right or wrong about personal choice, even though some try to prove to themselves and others that there is)
Enjoy whatever you play

Bill

James,
Great setup and sounds like you are very happy.

Please tell us..how do you use the 2 keyboards together...or better yet..how would I use a PA2XPRO with the Mediastation...I'm not sure where your comming from.

Thanks,
Lee S.

If I were an arranger user, I would feel robbed that I had to buy a PA2Xpro AS WELL as a Mediastation.

I would want the Mediastation people to get off their lazy arses, and FINISH the incomplete arranger section, and add some decent content. Then my Mediastation wouldn't cost me $3000+ MORE than it ought to, to simply add in a Korg to do what it OUGHT to be able to do now...

I get what you are saying, James, but the future NOW, for arranger players, is still apparently a long way off.

Diki,

Don't you remember, James didn't buy the MS, he's smarter that the average bear is James!

Err, yes he did!!

Hi Diki.



Using your own logic here....

If I were to take that attitude then in your book I should feel robbed that I had to buy an OASYS as well as the Meidastation.

I really don't think you truly get anything I've just said above. It's almost like it's unacceptable to you to own more than one keyboard if you own a Meidastation.

Regards
James

Tony, comments like that don't help when they are not true.

How much I paid is not important either as I've written and given away for free a computer prgoarm for managing content and creating system files for Lionstracs products.

If Lionstracs were to hire me to do that work, it would have cost many times the price of a keyboard. I've done a lot more than that too, so I've paid in more ways than one.

Regards
James.

This won't probably matter to many experts here but I also want to say I'm extremely happy using my set up with a Psr s900, Korg pa500, TR 61, Roland Pk5 pedal plus the Mediastation altogether. The MS allowed me to keep adding high quality sounds and to link the different parts/channels of all my keyboards so easily. I' ve been able to play one orchestral VST simultaneusly from the three keyboards layering sounds from all the sound engines. That's incredibly beautiful.

I agree, the Open Labs keyboards are basically a lot of nothing.....I am interested in the Mediastation in the future but only once I will be certain that it fulfill my needs: I want it to do everything that my PSR 3000 does, out of the box.

Might seem ridicolous, but I am not so certain about that. I find the PSR3000 a great little keyboard for composing, so for now I'll use the PSR. Once I've got the midi file out of the PSR, I just transfer the file on my PC and substitute all the sound with Eastwest library (and these sounds just can't be beaten, although they are not strictly necessary to sound great)

I also don't want to buy more than one keyboard,....if it works for you , great, but really , the Liontracs should do it all....to use two keyboards at the same time is a bit overkill, and it's also not budget-effective.

But yes, if money were no objection, I'd probably go for a similar setup as yours or Vagro's....if it works, it works.

James,

It doesn't matter to me either, it's personal and I shouldn't have said it but I think it was in the public domain. I don't personally like people bashing when you have done so much for the product, much more than anyone else would have done or for that matter could do. You know what I mean, and I have more respect for you than take a pop at you.

Regards

While for James this setup might be ideal..

For others it won't, because they want the best styles available performing straight out of the Box.
Because they want to use Ableton live as their main sequencer. BEcause they want full controll over the buttons and sliders of their open system.

I could see a setup of Oasys/Audya4/Openlabs Dbeat come close for those people.


Needles to say i personally am still a big fan of the Lionstracs vision. But other people that are more intoo arrangers and playing straight out of the box might be served better with another setup. The setup i described would give them Audya styles combined with the best hardware synth and all the possibilities of Software without having a PC onstage. (I know, that a Dbeat is a really well disguised PC, but it looks more like a module then a PC)

Well...after some fight with Norbert ( live-styler and Live-arranger developer)on next OS 5.0 we will remove this all windows arranger features.
this also because the Live-Arranger is still FULL of bugs, will startup with 5 windows/wine external ojbect ( normally must be only ONE, like the all others windows applications) that cause about always lost TCP connection on my OS.
I started again to invest money on the new Qranger 5, Rui Capella ( Qtractor developer) is working on new qranger for resolve and adding the all features request on a great arranger engine.
The Deal is to rework the all chords maps ( developed dirty from one germany company)optimizing the audio-midi Sync for the Chords audio tracks and finally the Embedded ZIP session file style.
The Embedded ZIP session mean that qranger can ZIP the all media data ( wav, Midi, Mp3...)used for the style on one ZIP file and also to move this embedded ZIP style to any other file path location.
I Think when Rui release the new Qranger 5, finally more people will be happy, because they can just copy the new ZIP session file and play, like out of the box.
Tastenpoit have already on the box 200 audio styles
You can hear one example on tastefestival live show at 4.40: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0z43pdNTKo
With qranger 5 available, 7 Groove guys are now ready to develope native audio-Midi styles and then, this all new audio styles will be available for Free download from my web store.

MAYBE I will also release the qranger 5 for the normally PC linux desktop user, where they will be able to compose new audio styles and share the embedded session file out of the box.

Hi Tony.

My only concern with comments like that is it might portray that I've been paid off in some way when that's not the case. I hide nothing and I'm a straight up guy.

So no worries, I just was nervous people would take things up wrong as it happens quite a lot here.

Regards
James

Note to all...

Just so there's clarity here, my comments are related to ME being utterly content with my sound for the first time ever. I'm not in anyway telling people to go buy an OASYS and a Mediastation and that YOU will then have the best setup for YOU.

We are all very different and we all have very different needs when it comes to our music.

My comments about a PA2X and Meidastation are again personal, as in if I were an Arranger user I'd find the same level of content in a system like that too because I know how deep the Pa2X is and how advanced the midi implementation is to interface with the Mediastation.

Current closed technology has it's limitations. Some people are happy with that as they will not even scratch the surface of what they have already. I'm not one of those people. I have for a long time always wanted more and it's only now that I'm truly happy as I have the sound of the OASYS and the features of the Meidastation. This combination gives me total freedom to do everything I'm able to think of. Now the limitation is ME. This is something I've not experienced in a very long time and it feels good. I can once again push myself to do better.

As for everyone else. Well the reason why I'm telling you how I feel is that if you are like me and you find that you still want more from current closed technology and are unable to satisfy your needs, then maybe you should be looking at something like the Groove.

If you read what I've been saying, from an investment point and the fact that it technically has no limitations, its about the only show in town that can take you to new places these days.

Free you mind....!!!!!
There is no spoon. (PS go see the Matrix and you will understand that one )

Regards
James

Hi leeboy.



Sure... on the OASYS first, I can use the OASYS as the Master keyboard as it's midi implementation is very advanced and the keyboards controllers can be mapped to control anything on any CC.

In addition to that, the OASYS has the larger screen, and a complete Sequencer that has a 16 Track HDR integrated. So with a little midi magic I can use the one sequencer to control both keyboards, and I have the controls of the Mediastation and OASYS all being recorded under the sequnecer.

I can route the Mediastation into the OASYS and use the deep effect engine of the OASYS too.

The OASYS limitations revolve around the fact that it has no ability to run VSTi's nor does it support one single sample format currently in development. It also can't stream sample data.

So the mediastation running as a salve off the sequencer of the OASYS gives me total integration of both systems. Running both together, there are no limitations. I can run VSTi's, load massive Giga Libraries, and still access the different synth engines of the OASYS all at the same time.

I can even run combinations of the two systems on a track by track basis and have a mixture of the two in any configuration I require.

IF..... I were an arranger user then all the above still applies. You can take my words and just replace Sequencer with Arranger.

The Pa2X midi implementation is also very advanced and there's nothing stopping anyone from selecting a style and hearing both a Lionstracs keyboard and a Pa2X perform the parts.

The possibilities are only limited by your imagination. I find that very exciting... VS...take what Yamaha are doing with the Tyros range. To them an incremental upgrade warrants the price of a new keyboard. Lionstracs attitude is the polar opposite of Yamaha. With Lionstracs the attitude is anything is possible and it won't cost you the price of a new keyboard each time. In fact if the last 6 years are anything to go by it won't cost you a single cent as the OS updates were free.

So not only is it technically unlimited, it's also one of the best investments around that will be with you for a very long time.

My 2 cents.
James.

I understand James, I know that whatever you do you are bloody good at and an all rounder too, if you sold KBs I would buy one from you, you are held in high regard on SZ.

Cheers Tony

James,
OK, I uderstnd now where you are comming from.

It's food for thouht at least...I have MIDI's up my Kurz and also a Yamaha sound moduel to th PA, And I have done the same to my PC Based E-MU 1820M with vSti's as well.

Works OK..but takes a lot of time for setup/balancing/etc. OK for studio. No so much for live if you have to cart it around.

Oe down side is that the PA2XPRO, while a heck of a lot better than the Tyros does not send MIDI for all the physical controls.
It is ot near the mastercontroller te OASYSY is.

Lee S.

I want to share my enjoyment with you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLq4x6D6Jqc

In this video I only play my arrangers and synth. The MS links the usb input/output from all the devices via Jack ALSA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6qw50Kk1-U

In this video I use simultaneously:
In the upper keyboard: 3 strings from the pa500, 3 edirol strings and 7 layers combi orchestral sounds from the Korg Tr, the latest regulated by an independent volume pedal.
In the middle keyboard: and edirol bass flute and Psr s900 strings with harrmony effect. Later on an Edirol clarinet.
In the lower keyboard Psr's strings and Pa500 choir.
In the pedalboard a Psr string.

The style is from the Pa500.


Note: In the video when I change the bass flute for a clarinet the vibrato (activated by the aftertouch sensor) remains too loud for the clarinet, uuups!

Vagro,

That’s the flight deck of the "STAR SHIP ENTERPRISE" hope it doesn’t all fall over on you! How many Kilowatts per hour does it all use.

Yeah my dream when I was a kid... and still now I guess... Remember Vangelis before the MIDI era? I like many buttons and levers because I play on the fly, never made too much programming yet since I don't know where the music will be taking me.

How many Kiloatts? When you hear about a big black out down here in South America think of me!

Trying to have it both ways, James...?

Yes, FOR ME (and for what is probably a pretty large percentage of live gigging arranger users) a one keyboard setup is a fairly important part of our equipment decision process. And I get enough flack from most of them for using just ONE keyboard that weighs less than EITHER of your choices..!

Given that the MS was SUPPOSED to be an arranger, still has the arranger software in it from the original release (with updates), it is still fair to talk about it in arranger terms. Having to buy a REAL arranger to make it work is totally unacceptable. From the very beginning, I have always said I 'get it'... I understand the POTENTIAL of the open arranger. If, in any real PRACTICAL sense of the word, it offered the ease and convenience of a modern TOTL closed arranger, it would be a complete no-brainer because of how much FURTHER you could take it.

But, after so much back and forth between us, and many other open arranger evangelists, well, first of all, your admittance that you would be happy as you are now in arranger terms with a PA2Xpro and an MS, all I can hear here is a frank and total admission that, after you promised us that you were working on making the MS into as good an arranger as a closed one, you have pretty much given up on that pipedream.

As, to be frank, pretty much ALL the posters here on this forum that kept telling us the same thing must have done so too. We, as per usual, are certainly not hearing any music done in arranger mode on an MS that proves otherwise. Or, for that matter, proves us right..! The MS... the quietest arranger in the world!

I know it bugs the hell out of you whenever I try to inject a note of reality into the proceedings, but this IS an arranger forum. You post that you are happy linking two workstations together, but get mad when it is pointed out that ONE of them was sold to us as an arranger, and still, years later, sucks! If you want the happy reception of your news, it is likely you would get it posting this on a workstation forum...

I am happy you like your sound. I am happy you like linking the Oasys and the MS. I really am....

But I'm an arranger player. If I want to go and talk about WS's, and VSTi players, and stuff like that, I'll go to a WS forum. I am pretty sure, were I to post there how happy I was with a product that was SUPPOSED to be a great WS but turned out to suck, and was, in fact, a MUCH better arranger, it would get the reception it DESERVED on the WS forum! And complaining that the rest of them just didn't get it would get me the reception I deserve!

This could help a lot, tough it would even help more if it was released for the Windows desktop user, or even the MAC desktop user.

Vagro nice setup.

Nice video.

Thank you Magic Alfa.

+1 Great videos.

James

Thank you James

Vagro,
Looks like you have added on to the space shuttle cockit you had before... :-)

Nice work, I enjoyd them and the Music Orchestra improv as well.
I am going kind of that direction too...but stopping at 2 manuals & pedals.
I will add a PC as well for various things.

I basically want to creat a Stagea ++.
Since I can' buy one.

It will all be arrange based as that't what I like.

Either a T4 or a PA3X.

Lee S.

Lee when I imagined this "organ" I never planned three manuals. It was a technical matter what made me add the middle manual because I needed loose keys to fit in between the controller and the arranger unless I opened up and took apart the keys what I refused to do.
If you have the chance I recommend you search a double octave pedalboard, but I remember you already have a Pk5 pedal like me.

My main idea was also the Stagea I couldn't buy. I imitated its legs with an iron platform. I'm still working very slowly on the design of the iron stand for the MS and Psr that keep standing in front of me. There's also some work to do to create a better wooden cabinet on the sides and between the middle and upper manuals but I'm afraid by the time I finish this I will be changing one of the keyboards

If you include a Tyros4 or a Pa3x you'll own a "monster" organ and I sure want to see that . I can only suggest you that the Yamaha is ready to be used like an organ using the pedals (on bass note Midi reception) but the Korg is a better controller for other functions.

Count on me for your design.

Victor

Victor,
OK, thanks for the input...I think I will also build a custom cabinet. My good friend next door is a cabinet maker and has his shop. The MIDI stuff I eat for lunch...the Musical stuff is where I'm trying to learn.

I actually beleuve once I get this thing built..it may be better than the Stagea..in some ways. Even though if the MIDI is good on a stagea..if I could get one...that's what I would do. Have you watched most of the Stagea you-tube videos?? Un freeking believable! They must have some sequence files they als use for some of the parts. Maye some audio as well...hard to tell. But they do play MOST of it. We can do the same!

As to pedals...I think I will sell my PK-5.
I would like 2 octives...have you found a 20-25 pedal MIDI unit that is good??

Lee S.

Lee,
Yes I've watched many Stagea videos and I think they are incredible instruments. In relation to those wonderful performances there is something I don't like and it's they are pre programmed and all the players, if they are good of course, sound the same like a copy of the original song. That's great for a show but in my case as a home player I would get very bored practicing the exact same pattern and I would give up on the try. I love to flow along the music so I've never taken the time to program the registrations in my Psr for a performance and I know I wouldn't do it on a Stagea either. I play less than an hour a day during the week (when I can) and I wouldn't be able to practice enough those arrangements.
I have not found here other pedals than the Pk5 but I know Roland has another 2 octave model which is much more expensive and lacks all the programmability of the Pk5. Since it is a dedicated pedal for Roland instruments I was afraid it could not work properly with other brands and I didn't take the risk to order one. On the other hand remember you need spare room for a couple of volume pedals and foot switches for your right foot and it won't be easy to place them on top of the pedalboard cabinet. I use two pedals, one for volume the other for modulation wheel functions and 4 switches, 2 for sustain for middle an upper manuals respectively and two for variation up and break fill in the Psr.
Lee what you can do is only limited by your imagination.

Victor

Victor,
I suspect most here could care less what we are taliking about.
I will PM you and we can talk via regular e-mail.

PS..if anyone else here is interested in what we are talking about we will include you. :-)

Lee S.

yes, I think it's a good idea. Live-styler is far from my idea of fun. Isn't the program full of numbers?
Staying away from programs developed for Windows is a good idea.....personally I like none of them.
Q-ranger seems a very nice program. Hope that one day it will be able to be as immediate ,complete and intuitive as a Yamaha arranger.

in fact, I didn't think you were telling us to buy anything. But as you are telling us why your setup works for you, people also have a right to say why for -them- your setup would not work.
Both your reasons and ours are good reasons....it's just different needs and different wants

[This message has been edited by arranger_yes_pc_no (edited 10-12-2010).]

Vagro, this is by far the most out there setup I have seen. I can see why you prefer real instruments ,real keyboards to that PC crap. It's equipment for composers who haven't got time to mess around ridicolous PC problems and distractions. Respect.

I have to agree...and the playing is superb.

Ian the Impressed

LIONTRACKS,
You sure you want to do that?
I have the latest version of Live-Styler and it is pretty darn good.

The fact that Mediastation canplay Yamaha styles is not a big deal to you??
AND the new version plays Ketron styles even with a SD-2 if you want!

How in the world will you ever get any real arranger content without playing someone else styles...it take years and LOTS of $$ to create all those styles.

Lee S.

arranger_yes_pc_no and Ian, I appreciate very much your comments, truly.

Victor

Fantastic setup, fantastic playing.

Sadly the only thing it has in common with mine is the little Korg nanokontrol thingy.

I actually agree with Diki here, even though he sounds like a broken record, he makes some very valid points (no offense)....

I have not heard one performance come out of mediastation that actually impresses my ears. I am more visually impressed by what I see though. it does look like an awesome system - check out this video below: the drum software looks so good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE-cCt4-caE&feature=related

Maybe Lionstracs need Bert Smorenberg from Yamaha demoing their products??

the Yamaha Motif XF with flash memory is a dead set winner for me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSDOORN79r0

Nick

The fact that you have to apologize for making a valid point is indicative of just how far this forum has fallen...

Nick G don't you mean he has broken the record.

Thank you for the first part.

On the second part I suppose you made a quite exaggerated statement though

In my view some people, including me, agree with some of your statements but differ HOW you express them.
From my culture (not very different to yours) you sound quite rude sometimes. I guess Nick G is not apologizing, he is probably trying to express what you said in a very polite way to make this forum a better place.
However apologizing is a good behavior (even if you think you might eventually hurt someone) and we should do it more often when needed.

PS I won't apologize to you beacuse I'm sure I didn't offend you

Diki, I am backing you up here. I am telling you and other people that you are correct and I am with you 100% on your comments about the Mediastation.

The reason why I said no offence was because I didn't want you to take me the wrong way.

I always do read your posts and I see that you cop a lot of crap from people on here because you tell it how it is and that is something I respect very much.

You just need to relax mate

My mistake...

I get a bit punch-drunk from time to time!

I thought the 'no offense' was there to appease the posters that don't seem to want to read ANYTHING that agrees with me!

Believe me, it is exactly as I described!

Hi Lee
For what I need this two windows application if already the Qranger is able to import this styles?
Do you know now why the new Live-styler 12 and livearranger sounds so good?
Because Norbert Stolen my all Yamaha and Ketron Gigalibrary + LSCP files from my developement Groove and have integrated on the arranger engine our Linuxsampler! ( without pay us the license)
IF will continue use my library and Linuxsampler, MUST release the Live-styler for FREE and NOT asking 130 euro!

Qranger, with this correct LSCP yamaha map, play the style on the same way, without editing any program change ( all native yamaha program change)

Just another question...
what happen with our friends Openlabs?? No more webpage...they left totally now?

But I thought the whole POINT of an 'open' arranger, and open software, was that anyone can take anything they want, and use it however they feel like...?

Are you telling us, after having defended pirating styles and pirating sounds and pirating loops, that you have changed your mind now that it is something of YOURS that is getting pirated?

Welcome to the other side of the 'open' keyboard debate..! Now you are starting to get an idea of how Yamaha, Ketron, etc. feel when THEIR intellectual property is stolen, to be used by another manufacturer... (no names, no packdrill )

You are so ignorat like always...you can never change...
the POINT is NOT that Norbert have stolen my all gigalibrary and linuxsampler...
Linuxsampler is available fro FREE download
All my gigalibrary is FREE too, to all my clients!
Who will copy, can copy, I dont care at all!
But this NOT mean that they can RESELL and EARN money! ( 130 euro for one application)
want to copy and share my library?? make it, BUT NOT ask money!
Diki...ignorat..read again what mean GNU GPL. http://www.linuxsampler.org/downloads.html

Free 'to your clients' isn't FREE. They have to buy something VERY expensive to get it.

BTW, just curious, but how much were you paying Norbert per installed Live-Styler? Anything? Or did you merely point your clients to sites where they could grab his program for free?

You have, in the past, said quite plainly and clearly that it is perfectly OK to copy some other manufacturers' sounds and use them (for profit, if able - after all, without a library of good 'stolen' sounds, how good did your original MS sound?). Apparently, back then, NO SOUND whatsoever had any kind of protection on it at all. You could clone a T2, a G70, anything you felt like. You also have said that the loops in an arranger were similar fair game. Plus the styles, etc., etc..

How is this any different..? You were profiting (by selling more MS's than you would have without these sounds) from this. How is Norbert any different..? Let's just say he's jacked up the price on his program, but he's giving YOUR sounds away for free... That's how you used to defend it!

Sauce for the goose...

Still operational http://openlabs.com/ just tried it.

Bill