2 possible trades for my Genesys Pro S: which would be better for me (assuming $$ are reasonably comparable)?

1. MidJay w/Roland Discover as controller.
2. SD1plus

assumptions: I don't need 76 keys but would prefer. I don't need semi-weighted, and am concerned that the tendinitis in my hands may flare up with a heavy action, as it does on acoustic piano, and to a lesser degree on Gem sk76 I used to have..but Gem is heavy action..some say sd1 has a light action. True? I use board mostly for live
performance, jazz on the fly with mostly just bass/drums,
my vocals, and ease of transpose, registers, tap tempo, etc etc is very important-are there negotiation problems in using controller/module vs. single ? I haven't yet used smf or other files but might be tempted to try
with the Discover, since that is supposed to be best for it..
I have never tried out any of these units, and am not
likely to find a place that demos them, so i have to go by
what people advise me and my own research..thanks
Miami Mo
ps..anyone who has similar or alternative trades, please
make proposal..neither of these trades are firm offers...

Hi
I don't like to advise performers on keyboards as I am only a hobbyist.

Reason I went for the SD1+ instead of a midjay, is that I wanted a full fledged arranger keyboard ( or module). The midjay doesn't have the same style creation functions as the sd1 & for me that was important.

I spent the time & read both manuals so that I could compare the features & functions of each.
If the midjay had of had all the arranger functions, sampler etc that the sd1 has, I would have bought it in a flash. A module midied to my digital piano would have suited me better. For me there were too many compromises. It depends on the individual what functions they require. I think I downloaded the manuals from one of these sites. http://www.ketronus.com/ http://www.ketron.it/home/

The drums on the sd1+ are brilliant.
You can incorporate drum loops into a user style via drum 2.
You can edit & remap the drums.
You can mix n match style parts to create new styles.


Take the time to check out the differences between the midjay & the sd1. The midjay also has functions that the sd1 doesn't have.

best wishes
Rikki


[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 08-28-2006).]

thanks Rikki,
it amazes me that so few reply on these indy kbd threads
but everybody chimes in on the general arranger threads
which are mostly sophomoric disputes and/or the merits
of T2 or psr's..You seem to have done a lot of homework,
it would be a favor to me if you would reread my original post and try give me your advice re my needs. I have no
interest in sampling and style creation and smf's. I use exisiting internal styles now except I take out everything but bass/drums/perc on all except leave some brass in the big band styles and some lite guitar strum in the bossa novas. You say a midajy w/a dig. piano controller
would have been best if only midjay had sampler and other things you need(but i don't) I guess you are a good
acoustic pianist and like that dig piano action, but I can't
because of my sensitive hands and even worry about the
sd1 semi-weighted, which I never tried..are there any
other reasons you would prefer, say, a synth-action 76
contoller w/ a midjay over the sd1 if u didn't need sampler, etc? thanks...and anyone else can answer this too.
Miami Mo

Hi:

I would take the SD1 and RUN.....this way no conections between 2 items, the SD1 is one of the best sounding boards still even almost 5 years from it's release, CONS: the screen if you have certain series, you may have it change and that is the END of the problem.

In the Discover board is basically a secuencer w/tone generation and harmonizer, NO styles and you WILL have screen problems, at the store where I work, we have the Discover and also an old VA7,BOTH with the cronic screen problem, it fades after 1-2 hours, also, both are in their second/third screen.....
The Midjay is a little GREAT module.
Hope it helps.

mdorantes, thanks. I wish I could find a store or just
someone who owns an sd1 or a midjay so I can hear the
sounds and styles. I would be willing to pay--(see my other post on this ketron forum) many players say ketron has the best, especially for jazz. Based on what i said my needs were, do you think I would be better off with a controller and a Midjay or an sd1?? controller would be a lot lighter to carry--very important to me..could you recommend a good 76-key controller w/synth action or a very light semi-weight action?or is that more difficult to navigate than sd1 for live jazz? I wouldn't pick a Discover but that is best combo with Midjay that have near $ value to my Genesys and the guy is willing to make the trade..nobody else is interested on SZ and i won't get top $ on ebay..so i figured: maybe i will like some of the Discover sounds? maybe I might use the harmonizer? maybe i might put in some loops and/or smf's to play sax with,(right now I mostly sing on solo gigs, hardly any sax) who knows?
MM

I have a Midjay and had an SD1 in the past; the SD1 has a nice 76 keybed which is not heavy at all; however, if you are after a super-light controller, I recommend you the Roland A-37 (I own that one as well), which is really extra-light (it doesn't even have an internal transformer and runs on batteries or an external transformer, like I have). The action is nice and, together with the Midjay, gives you a lot of power.
The only limit of the Midjay is that, being an all-in-one machine, the arranger section is not as programmable as in the SD1, so you have limited control on your styles, meaning that can edit them only to a slight degree and cannot program new ones.
Aside from that, the sound is good (just like the SD1) and it has plenty of possibilities I still have to explore (like the DJ loop playing ability, which looks very promising on paper).
Final consideration (very important to me):
- Roland A-37 weight: 7.7 kg or 17 lbs
- Midjay weight: 3.2 kg or 7 lbs
- Total weight: 24 lbs!

so if I'm not programming styles (I don't) and only tweak
sounds, I can do on the midjay (with same ease of navigation?) as on sd1? and if I have the Discover, which I
have to take in terms of this trade, I could maybe do some
other things neither of the Ketrons can do, even though it is
heavier than a light controller? (but still lighter than an sd1)
Mo

Hi,
as I mentioned, I'm only a hobbyist.
I've been a keyboard & style making addict for years.
My 4 most recent ones have been 9000pro, VA7, Technics KN7000, my current one is the SD1plus & I'm probably going to get either a Tyros 2 ( if husband doesn't faint at the price tag ) or a PSR3000. So to a certain degree I do my homework.

Main reason I personally wouldn't have bought the Midjay is, being an arranger, is one of it's functions, it's not necessarily it's major function. For an entertainer who uses midifiles, mp3's & arranger functions,
it would probably be perfect (I'm not aware of any other module that can do all of this stuff) it's a jack of all trades.

You mention Discover 5, automatically midifiles & midifile manuipulation springs to mind. (I don't know anything about it's vocalizer as I also can't sing).
Unless you're really good with midi , midiing stuff together, especially if you're not using a dedicated controller, could be a nightmare, not so much because of the midjay, but maybe the discover 5, you may want to try & find out if anyones used it as a controller..

I've midied my digital piano to my sd1, but my piano is straight forward, doesn't hve sequencers etc that may complicate a setup.

You may not be into editing or creating styles or using sampler etc, but you only have a certain amount of styles onboard. ( 128 I think??) Midjay can apparently load SD1 styles etc, but editing options are fairly limited.
Even the sd1 doesn't have any kind of event list editing to fix up a style, like I had on my other keyboards , but at least I have the option of event list editing a style in a pc sequencer & then recording that style across to the sd1 via midi.One big plus is , you can create your own styles via a simple mix n matching of style parts. ie take drums from one style & copy it into another etc etc. That's a simple way of adding to your style list. These are some of the functions that the midjay doesn't have as far as I'm aware.
I had considered using EMC styleworks for editing the sd styles to suit the midjay. I'm glad I wasn't relying on it 100% though, I've discovered it can do some pretty strange things. Great program, but not 100% ideal editor.

Can I make a suggestion, check some of the older posts on this forum.

I don't find the action heavy on the sd1, but I'm also used to the fully piano weighted action of my clavinova.

The SD also has lots of dedicated buttons. 3 intro's the 4 variations etc etc, check out the layout of the Midjay & make sure it would suit.

best wishes
Rikki

Rikki,
you are too modest.."just a hobbyist"? No, you are a
fountain of knowledge. love ya..


------------------
Miami Mo

Hi,
Sd1's have a bit of a learning curve.
AJ I beleive has written a more simplified manual that he sells, to help new users get started.
I'd already read mine a couple of times before I realized, so I didn't bother getting it in the end.
Apart from which, I enjoy reading manuals & I like to try & work out how most things work whether I have a use for the function or not . I'm a bit eccentric haa haa. I drive more poor hubby nuts.

Link for Demo's, Manuals & Brochures http://www.ketronus.com/downloads.html#sd1sounds http://www.ketronus.com/midjay.htm

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rikkisbears:
I enjoy reading manuals & I like to try & work out how most things work whether I have a use for the function or not . I'm a bit eccentric haa haa. I drive my poor hubby nuts.

How would you like to learn my Gem Genesys Pro S and
tutor me at the same time? be my "personal trainer"for$$. I am your bizarro opposite: I hate reading manuals, even though I need to learn the functions as a jazz musician, every time I sit down to learn I just wind up finding a nice groove and start playing for hours, procrastinating the learning. You can bring your hubby, who is probably a normal person, and he can talk to my wife, who is also a normal person. we're up in NW Connecticut thru October, then back to Miami. Are you anywhere near either?



------------------
Miami Mo

Hi,
wish I could help, unfortunately distance could be a bit of a problem, I live in Australia.
Have you tried the store where you bought the Gem. Maybe they could put you onto someone? I used to do a bit of casual work for my local store ie they used to send me clients who needed a quick startup lesson on how the keyboard worked. Within an hour or so they knew the basic functions they required, & I book marked pages in the manual so they could refresh their memory if they forgot how something worked.
A lot of them didn't have the time or patience to read a complete manual, they just needed certain functions.

No matter what keyboard you get, you're going to have a bit of a learning curve as they get more & more sophisticated with each new model.
I had Technics,Roland's, a korg i2, a 9000pro, my most recent is the sd1+ and the only reason I haven't owned a gem is I didn't realize they were actually available here till David ( fom Gem forum) happened to mention it. They all work differently.

I gather from reading some of the posts on the gem forum, it may be a slightly complicated operating system? I've been converting some of old styles across to gem format for Don & Jerry. I think Don's got an XP.
Think carefully before swapping keyboards out of frustration in trying to learn the operating system, what you swap for may not be any easier if you're not familiar with it.

best wishes
Rikki
p.s. have you asked DAvid if he can suggest anyone??
[QUOTE]Originally posted by keysvocalssax:
[B][QUOTE]


[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 09-04-2006).]