Decided to order the T4 before selling the T3... I want to hear them side by side.

Plus it will get me off my butt to sell the T3 as I have been hesitating because of the gap between selling the T3 and getting the T4

Good luck ...hope to hear some maybe some A/B demos T3/T4 when you get into it a bit...?

enjoy

I'm doing the same...keeping the Tyros3 and comparing it to the T4.

The job's tough, but someone has to do it.

Ian

If you would, would you also figure out for us what the cost, roughly of making this change would be to a customer of your store, rather than an employee?

Let's say I, as a perhaps elderly arranger home player, walked into your store with a T3 under my arm (OK, I'm too old to lift it, assume a grandkid is carrying it!) and wanted to walk out with a T4... What kind of a price are you going to quote me?

And then factor that real-world figure (not the figure you are going to have to pay yourself) into whether the improvements between the two represent value for money...

Every model is ALWAYS going to be an improvement. But that improvement is going to come at a cost. When faced with paying full retail, and getting a perhaps not too generous trade in (I remind you, pretend I'm an elderly arranger player with no eBay chops and the usual willingness to pay whatever you ask ), is the difference between the two a good decision for most of us who DON'T get gear at cost or thereabouts (and can't sell our trade-ins for top dollar)?

If that weren't a consideration, of course ANY model change is 'worth it', but factor it in and perhaps it can color your decision...

My guess would be a $2,400 bump..

Short answer......NO and I would say that before and after hearing the T4 and owning the T3..... not worth it IMO

Fran is about right.......
Rule of thumb trade in the book would be approx 20- 25% of retail depending on the Mark (ABC). and Mark it at 50% and try to get 40%. In a higher populated area they could get more because there would be a larger base of buyers. The difference would depend on how much off MAP the store is willing to go which depends on how long the stock has been there and how much.


$2200 would be an easy choice for someone already looking to spend $1750 on a 910... My boss wants me to sell mine in the store. LOL Not a chance. Too many fingers would be handling it. I will do better on Ebay at $2200 untouched by a thousand fingers. Thelast used one went for $2800 with the stand and speakers on bid.


A pawn shop would offer far less. A $4000 keyboard is not an easy sell in this market new or used because of the 9% sales tax. So we don't stock Motifs and the big Roland and Kork WS. The margins are already low. Take another 10% off and its not worth taking up the floor space and demo time. We may not even stock a Tyros 4 since we just sold the Tyros 3 we had for over a year. This is a Clavinova CVP/910 market. (although I am working on the owner to get one as they do help sell the S910s. When you see $5000 and demo a $1750 Keyboard that sounds the same.....

As you know It is never a good idea to trade musical (especially technological) gear in wholesale and buy retail. The buyer would have to come up with at least $2500-3000 plus tax to buy a Tyros 4. IMO not worth it. He can buy a Tyros 4 likely for far less than $4000 tax free from great guys like Frank, sell his Tyros 3 for $1500 and still make out better LOL... .

IN all honesty I tell my customers the Tyros is not worth 2.5x the cost of the S910 IF they don't need the physical differences and a few SA2 voices, three voice layers,a hard drive, flip up screen, VGA out, sliders,easy Mike adjustments, a couple more pedal inputs. A lot of little differences hike the cost a ton.

At the end of the day you can make some great sounding music with the 910. Now the T4 may be different because it has a larger separation between the T3 and S910 in areas one is likely to want and use.

Truthfully if I could not get mine direct and was coming in off the street to buy a Yamaha Arranger the 910 would more than suffice for me in value vs cost and my use thereof.

HOWEVER IF....I could get a USED Tyros 3 for less than $700 more than a NEW 910 there would be no contest....Tyros would go out the door with me. That's where I will be pricing mine. $500-$700 more than an S910 after tax (take out the 9% tax that brings the 910 to $1950).. and that's a phenomenal deal for any local looking for a 910. Basically $400 more and they have a pristine Tyros with a memory Upgrade!! . After a year warranties are even.

That's why I am buying the T4 before selling my T3. I will have no problems selling it for $2200 on the net or $2400 local in the store to a 910 buyer




[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-14-2010).]

What is the map price of the T4?

like I always say for a gigging musician it's a small investment for the return ....bottom line...

#4999

I don't think so. If you put things in perspective, that $5,000 price tag requires an enormous number of jobs just to reach the break even point.

Now, before anyone starts spouting off about the fortune they're making in show biz, keep in mind that you must pay for these things with proceeds known as net profit--the money that's left over after paying all the expenses of doing business. Gas, tolls, equipment, performance clothing, insurance, etc..., stuff that most entertainers usually don't seem to pay much attention to. So, that $100 per hour fee, less if you're a nite-club/restaurant entertainer, after deducting normal operating expenses, is down to under $50 an hour. Don't think this is the case--DO THE MATH!

So, that $5,000 keyboard, using an adjusted gross income of $50 an hour, which would be the average NH rate in the Mid-Atlantic region of the U.S., translates to 100 jobs. If you're a club player, the figure is more like 200 jobs.

Now, ask yourself this question: Will buying this keyboard bring about a significant increase in the number of jobs I'm performing. Of course, the answer to this question is "not likely." Will you sound so much better that people will be beating down the doors and ringing the telephone off the hook begging you to do more jobs for them? NAH! It ain't gonna' happen.

Now, having listened to all the demos on You Tube I could find, I'm thoroughly impressed by what I've heard. The T-4, from all outward appearances, seems to be an incredible keyboard--far and above anything I've seen in the past few years. It would be almost inconceivable to think that someone will come out with something more advanced, that is this easy to navigate, and still keep the price under $5,000.

In my not-so-humble opinion, I'm fairly confident that if your current keyboard is making you a good living, there is absolutely no reason to switch--at least financially. However, if you don't mind shelling out the money, and you have managed to bank enough over the years so you won't miss the cash, then go for it. The T4 is one Hell of a keyboard.

Cheers,

Gary

For gigging, a MOTL arranger like the PSR-3000 you are using, or in my case, a PSR-S910, does the job admirably...sounds 99% of what a TOTL will sound to the audience, plus having two, one for backup, is affordable, and a good plan.

If I was strictly a home player, recording and perhaps making CDs for sale, I'd choose a Tyros4 for the utmost in sound quality...I'd only need one, since it won't be enduring the rigors of travel.

Bottom line for me, in order to make a nice profit, with the least overhead, I'd go with a mid-range arranger...the S910 being the instrument that would best suit my needs.

Ian

Anyone who is paying $5000 for a Tyros4 isn't shopping around. Either is anyone paying $4000. I have already presold my Tyros3 and am only taking a $1100 difference. Calculating the 2 years between the Tyros3 and Tyros4 it's costing me less than $50 a month to upgrade to a Tyros4. That's a lot of bang for my buck! I love my Tyros3 and will love Tyros4 even more. -charley

You are right. Anyone paying $5000 for a tyros is only doing it because they want local support and have no alternatives. Otherwise they should be able to get on well under $4000. Problem is most people will pay $1000 under Map for a Tyros and unless they get $2800 for their T3 the spread will be much higher. The T3 is not worth close to that much used. $2200 max in pristine condtion with original box and paperwork without road scars.

Personally, were I a home player and recordist, looking for the best sounds, I'd go to a VSTi rig, and STILL use just a MOTL arranger to generate some of the Parts (in MIDI) and replace them with something that sounds GOOD...

Yes, we each have our own idea of the best ways to do home recording.

I've never been interested in VST's.

The Tyros4 would be better for me for home use/recording...the S910 is a better gigging instrument.

If given the choice for only one instrument, I'd still pick the S910.

It's a beauty.

Ian

Yep ..That's what I do....The Tyros is a sketch pad for original music at best. I get to hear the "possibilities" but always remember that ALL of it is about what already HAS BEEN DONE....It' strength lies in reproducing and making cheap an royalty free sound beds for Videographers with low budget projects and Royalty free "noodle" music for Restaurants and other establishments (that don't have a TV) to avoid the performance rights orgs from knocking on their doors.

All that said for most local or gig CD sales a completed project on a Tyros is more than sufficient and convincing..including vocals. The general public is simply not that sophisticated to really hear the difference between a Tyros and Garritan , Sonic Implants Symphonic Strings on their Mp3 players through Skull crushers...LOL Or even in their cars on a read CD. They consume the music like a Mc burger and move on....

Many times gig CD sales are more "souvenirs" than actual serious music purchases. Unless one is looking for a national distribution channel via a major label, not already available via Itunes and Amazon...In the right hands, the Tyros could suffice for most as a CD production center. Hell the S910 could as well as the TOTL Korgs and Rolands...etc.


[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-15-2010).]