http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrB50DXKGDc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b4qz_3amus&feature=related

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Bo pen nyang.

Seems like the player had difficulty ready / looking at the screen. Perhaps the text was too small?

Sounded great to me...

I am not certain who is the worst, the player, camera operator or sound man, there have been some crap samples of MS being played so much so they wouldn't make you buy one unless you heard one live and that�s not likely to happen in the UK unless you just buy one. James has made a few snippets and the sound and video quality has been 1st class, if I was Helmut I wouldn't put out any more of these things until I got the audio visual up the speed, it's not doing the MS any good, if you think I am wrong look at the original Audya snippets from about 18 months back they are top notch. Or just let James do it for MS. Perhaps Helmut didn�t post these, someone watching him thought they were good enough for people to sit and watch, I won�t watch then a second time.

it has been suggested many times that James shouild be promoting the MS as he actually has produced some demo's up to the main 3 manufacturers standards and his explanations have been clear .

The MS is not going anywhere if demos like this keep slipping out. I dont think that the clip was an official release from Liontracs but it only does them even further harm.

Thanks for the kind words guys.
Video's using the camera's mic will always sound crap, so don't use the video's as a reference point. I think they are just so you can see the keyboard more than hear it.

It's proof it's a real and working product. Looks darn cool too.

Regards
James

The name suggests LIONSTRACSNEDherlands in my opinion.

As for the video and audio, even a pair of 3 meter long RCA cables connecting the Virgin outs to the camera and a cheap tripod fixed to the left or right or maybe even over the shoulder of the player would be a phenomenal upgrade to the Lionstracs demos.

I am 100% sure that the LIONSTRACSIREland videos would be leaps and bounds above this.

It also seems IMHO that the angle of the control surface could have been steeper, to bring the top controls a little closer to the player. No more leaning to reach them.

Or maybe the instrument is designed for older players and compensates for presbyopia, making easier for them to read the furthest controls.

I'd say it's trying to reach back to the home organ days where the buyers were old, rich and, in this case of this product, gullible.

Very poor ergonomics as evidenced by the player's difficulties.

I certainly hope this instrument is not a production model.

Ian

Not really, that's his choice to use the keyboard that way. In the demo he's using NI B3 and Linux Sampler in COMBI mode by the sound of things. Neither of which require you to touch the screen at all as the control panel is mapped to the software.

For example, he's using the sliders to turn on and off sounds by adjusting the volume, rather than just pressing the dedicated mute buttons for each track. He could also have used the program up and down buttons too if he wanted to.

I don't quite get why he's using the keyboard this way, but if it works for him well that's then that's all that matters. Me personally, I would do it differently but either way, there is nothing wrong with the ergonomics.

It's his choice to use the keyboard the way he is using it and that's all there really is to this.

Regards
James

Iana wrote "I'd say it's trying to reach back to the home organ days where the buyers were old, rich and, in this case of this product, gullible." In other words, acording to Yamaha, the Yamaha arranger market.

I still don't understand why they don't connect the MS audio OUT to some kind of recorder's audio IN (the Pc, the camera or at least an ancient cassette recorder !!!). I've been able to do that being a home player.
I bet he can't see a thing. The console or that screen needs to be tilted 65�. I have it in front of me but if I move my head looking to the lateral panel, lets say 30 cm. and there is a light source during the day inside my room the screen becomes a mirror and nothing can be seen.
I like the cabinet.

[This message has been edited by vagro (edited 10-16-2010).]

Probably, but, in my opinion, Roland does a far better job in regards to ergonomics with the Atelier...Virgin 1 seems just seems to be an attempt to get more buyers for the Mediastation by sticking on another keyboard, and calling it an organ.

Those panel buttons were designed to be used with a single keyboard...the reach is too far, in my opinion, with the addition of a lower manual, and the drawbars look like an afterthought and are too close to the keys.

As it's already been said, the sound quality of the video doesn't do it any favors.

Ian

Sure that's fine if you feel that way, but I don't think you would have a good understanding of the ergonomics because you don't know the function of all the buttons and their locations on the keyboard.

That's why I said he's playing the keyboard his way and it's his choice. Every mediastation user looking at that video would know he's not using the dedicated buttons for switching sounds. This very subject of how he changes sounds has come up on this forum before actually.

It's purly his choice of how he likes to work.

From an ergonomics point of view the program up and down buttons are the two closest buttons to your right hand, so there's nothing really wrong with the layout. It's just how he's using the keyboard.

Regards
James

I agree with you 1968, but I do think the DOM needs to start to push the KB into the public domain rather than software upgrades, MS is still the best kept secret and that won't keep paying the wages of MS employees. I think Dom has lost some ground recently to Ketron and I would score Germany nil points - Ireland 10, Helmut is good but he is on too long! And James you are much too modest and can we see more video of you and MS, please.

I said I wouldn't watch the video again and I did, its Helmut's glasses he needs to go to Spec-savers. Ergonomics my arse! Anyway how many bloody models of the MS are there, more models than software upgrades. Dom you don�t need to take Darwin�s theory literally � to survive and flourish you need to adapt� stop adapting.

When even Frank can put out a high quality video demo of the Ketron by running a digital recorder on the outputs of the arranger, while the video camera is running (it's tough to find a consumer video camera with good line in capabilities), and then flying the audio in afterwards in a video editor, it is astonishing that bad audio demos get released by a serious manufacturer...

Heck, the MS is supposed to be able to record itself (and a mike for commentary to a separate track) while the player is playing, and THAT could be synced to the video afterwards (in the MS itself, if its' video capabilities are set up right). Why, if including this capability in the 'open' keyboard, does the manufacturer themselves not make use of it?

Or is it, just like the arranger section itself, simply too difficult to do, easily? Once again, a reality check is being presented, front and center. It's all well and good to say the MS 'COULD' do something like this. But when the manufacturer, once again (just like the arranger section) can't figure out how to get it right, how is that supposed to show us mere mortals that we could do it..?

A product that is almost impossible to find in any store anywhere NEAR you lives or dies on its' web demos. I find it amazing Lionstracs has managed to survive the almost suicidal efforts of its' web demos, on the whole.

If a store dealer can put out a better sounding demo than this manufacturer, surely it's time (actually, well PAST time) he ditches the entire approach and goes with something that WORKS...?

Just run a little H2 on the audio outs while you film, Dom... That is, if figuring out how to get the MS to record its' own audio is too complicated!

Hell as much as it hurts me to say it Diki is right on the money, someone come in and tell us we are both wrong. I thought 6 months ago Ketron would be down the pan and they are still alive and kicking. Dom most have some money behind him to go one like this, I would love to buy a MS but it just doesn't feel right, unless he is selling them in big numbers into Russia and we don't know about it how is he going to penetrate the market, make profit to support the product when he can't even advertise or distribute it? If you can�t go and see it at a music shack near you he needs a wow factor video with sound that will blow your mind, all this crap about playing through PC speaker is tosh, the Audya sounded fantastic though mine when I saw it demo and all the video that Ketron did at Namm was great. Come on Dom hit us with it or you will end up with a pile of cardboard boxes , work up a plan and stop using other people to do it for your sales videos for you, I am sure it will work, SZ -MS is dead in the water what does that tell you. BTW Dom how many models do you actually make and think about this, how many model of the T4 do Yamaha make ?????
There a TV program in the UK called the Dragons Den where people go to get money for their business, from the 4 Dragons private investors , the applicants are subjected to question about their business, I can imaging Dom being there and saying how many model he makes, how many colors they are in and what advertising he has done thus far. I know what their answer would be.


[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 10-17-2010).]

This has been discussed way back, whenDom was a frequent poster. Nothing was done.

There is your answer, Dom has the Mega sampler, Mega Qaranger, Mega Giga and Mega loaded, it must be his hobby.

The links are to YouTube not the manufactures or dealers site, so what makes you think they are anything other than someone in the crowd with a Camcorder that decided to post some videos on YouTube. (Probably because live they thought it sounded great)

As to direct connection, would you honestly let someone out of the crowd plug his camera into your instrument? I think not.

If you look at the delivery dates for the various Lionstracs products, you will find they come in batches of particular models, therefore one can assume that manufacturing capacity is already maxed out, and to increase production would cost a hell of a lot of capital, (Most likely requiring borrowing from the bank) right in the middle of a recession. (And you try getting a loan out of a bank these days)

There are various dealers around Europe and just because it has not made it to the UK or US yet does not mean that it is not selling. (The fact it comes in batches proves it is)

Like I have said before, Yamaha probably spend more on bottled water in a week, then Lionstracs entire available yearly budget, so it�s hardly fair to compare sales.

That Lionstracs should get some Pro Demos done (James would be ideal) I would agree completely.

The way Helmut plays the instrument is typical of European players, and just because it doesn�t suit our personal choice, it does not make it any better or worse than our way of doing things. (It�s all down to Personal Preference)

Bill

Bill yes I agree with 90% of that and 100% about James. Bottled water the jury is out on that one, perhaps you are right on that one too!

The fact that they didn't record direct audio means nothing though. It does not prove or disprove anything. They simply didn't record the audio direct, end of story.

It does have this function, they just didn't use it.

We all know it has the ability to sound awesome, so there's really no point in debating what they could and didn't do.......assuming it was meant to be an offical video and not just something one of the people there recorded.

Regards
James

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 10-17-2010).]