or?........I would definitly use ONLY Stereo if I had a Tyros 4 to really get the most out of it.....I think it's an injustice to use a Mono system with this fantastic instrument. Maybe two Bose units would be a dream sound.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-15-2010).]

I'll let you know ..... When I get my T4

[This message has been edited by JCkeeys (edited 10-16-2010).]

Since we use the Tyros to generate Minus One MP3 Netbook tracks for my wife's gigs and she uses the Bose Mod II system the answer is a resounding ......"You Betcha"

Everyone hears the same exact thing at the same time regardless of whether sitting or standing on the extreme right or left....Nothing but net...

It depends... If it was for home use, I'd like some nice studio monitors. If it was for playing out a single Bose would do OK. but it really depends on what kind of volume, music, and venues your playing at.

My feeling on this is that playing in mono is almost the same as listening to the world around you with one finger stuffed in your ear.

You were born with two ears to hear in stereo, anything less than that is just not natural.

Everyone I know who loves the bose system now has a pair. They too at one point believed one system was all they would ever need, but there's just no getting away from the fact that stereo just sounds natural where mono does not.

Regards
James.

James I agree totally!! great analogy.

Why would you want your audience when you play out to hear less then the best sound?

I have two Bose Compacts. Although the "Cost" may be prohibitive to some the "Wow" factor and ease of transport is a no brainer to get stereo results.

I used a pair of Bose L1's for several months...absolutly astonishing stereo sound, and a very useful stereo seperation.

Yamaha insists that I use a stereo system for my demos and clinics...I use a Yamaha Stagepas 500 or 300.

Stereo also lets any voices with stereo dependent effects, sound as they were meant to sound.

Ian

The flaw with this "analogy" is in life you are ALWAYS in the "sweet spot"

In a room the "sweet spot is about 10% of listeners in the rear... Given a choice people prefer to hear crystal clear music that sounds the same no matter where they are sitting...Not a right mix heavy sound on one side and a left mix on the left side..Anyone who pans drums will find a drum fill getting louder or quieter in the mix and with a little mud as the far part comes to them off the back wall milliseconds later.

Major showrooms and concert halls are mixed in mono for a reason. Now if you play in a room no larger than 50X50 and everyone is front and center Stereo has a pleasing quality mono cannot match.

Any bigger and something will be missing to 90% of the listeners and phase issues will be an issue with reflections.

Yes ..of course and the "best sound" is CONSISTENT sound that everyone hears and where ALL the program material reaches both ears at the same time regardless of where you are sitting or standing.

Stereo is only the best sound if you are in the "sweet spot" Otherwise it is ugly in a huge room especially if there is any hard panning going on.

I listen to some old Rascals MP3s on my bike and it cracks me up how they hard switched everything into three channels. (before the invention of the glorified variable volume pan pot).Drums left, Vocals left right or center, very discrete and hard to listen to. Even at home if I am not in the sweet spot (which I have adjusted for where i sit) The fake stereo is distracting. I would rather hear the track in mono.



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-16-2010).]

Yes they do and Peter Baartmas was just here and the requirements were the same...But the spread between the Stagepas speakers were 20 feet at best and there were no seats outside the lines. The room was long and the front rows were placed far enough back to realize the benefits of the wider sound field. Something one rarely gets to do in clubs and venues. Adjust seating for the ultimate representation of the music.

They also recommend the keyboard are demoed in Stereo. In many rooms where yu have people on extreme right of left sides of the stage stereo is a lot muddier sounding to those on the sides hearing reflections rather than direct sound.

Two Bose systems would be ideal for wide rooms. indeed. But the pay doesn't go up enough to deal with carrying two around. Kind of defeats the purpose of the Bose System in the first place.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-16-2010).]

In my case, I factored in the cost of the two Bose L1's before I took the gig, which was a series of concerts in a restored movie theatre...the place wasn't huge, and the stereo field of the L1's was excellent, probably due to their wide dispersal, and the volume was basically the same everywhere.

Set-up time wasn't a hassle either, as I had plenty of time before and after each gig.

It's quite a system, but not for every application.

Ian

That's because it is fake and nothing more than two mono channels.

True stereo is something entirely different. It's a recreation of the space sounds generate in the real world naturally.

A real acoustic guitar played does not produce two separate waveforms that go to each ear. It's the world around us that makes the sound stereo. Waveforms bouncing of every object insight, your head space, the distance between your ears as well as the speed it travels at. Your brain even has the ability to detect where a sound is coming from in a 360 degree space even though have only two points (two ears) listening in a 3 dimensional world. That's pretty amazing as you normally need 3 points.

For example, if someone says something while standing behind you. Why do you think you can hear that they are behind you when the sound comes to your ears equally and at the same time?

The answer to that is complex but ultimately it proves the point that mono is not natural to the world we live and that stereo is.

Regards
James

PS... that reminds me, I have a mp3 file I must upload for people to play around with. Form listening on only a pair of headphones you can hear sound in a 360X360 direction.

NEVER! Because Yamaha's 'stereo sampled' voices rely on added 'effects' for their rich impressive sound, unfortunately, when mixed to mono, these effects are 'canceled out' due to the phenomenon of stereo ' phase cancellation ', resulting in a thin lifeless tinny sound of hearing only the raw sample itself.

Interestingly enough , this phase cancellation phenomenon appears to be most prominent (unique?) with Yamaha 'stereo sampled' voices, as I've not experienced 'phase cancellation ' when going out mono on Korg, Roland, or Ketron arrangers.

This article: Mono Comparability and Phase Relationships , may provide clues to why Yamaha's stereo samples suffer from stereo to mono phase cancellation problems. I hope Yamaha will look into this.

Scott
Scott Yee Entertainment

James great post....

I really learned something I didn't know.

Thank you

OK I have that Mp3 file.

DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS.... Download it first.
CLICK HERE

1: Connect a pair of headphones to your PC or put the file on your iPod.
2: Close your eyes.
3: Take a moment to relax. The room must be silent, no kids screaming or TV on that can distract you.
4: While sitting up straight with your eyes closed, start playing back the file.
5: You will hear a box of matches been shaken and ignited.
6: Concentrate on the location where the sound is coming from.

That's it.
You should be able to hear sound in full 360 degrees and even at one point you will hear the matches been shaking down by your ankles.

If you don't hear the effect at all, don't worry. There's a small percentage of people who don't have this ability to process sound in this way from headphones.

Regards
James

PS... if anyone is interested, I can explain why this works and why when listening anything normally on headphones you can only hear sound left and right.

Here's the famous virtual hair cut.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNYcOU0gk4I&feature=related

Again... you MUST close your eyes and wear headphones.

When I purchased my Ultrasone headphones..I listened to a demo CD...Without exception..everyone that listened to the demo and with the Ultrasone HP's...turned around to look where the sound behind them and to the right was coming from ( clarinet )...The stereo field when done right is totally amazing...
Now applying this to a live set up could be another story..but still way better to have stereo over mono..or two mono signals to two speakers..that you think is stereo..

James, wow, thanks for those links to those terrific aural experiences. Quite enlightening!

Scott

A month ago I had an important concert so I bought a second Bose Compact. The results were amazing. I will use the double set up for big jobs. I will still use one unit for most retirement and NH jobs.

Joe

------------------
Songman55
Joe Ayala

NEVER!!

The best way to use a stereo keyboard in mono is to sum the r and left outputs externally. Most keyboards (including Yamaha do this with internal circuitry) but also include mono pianos,

I don't hear the drastic differences in the mono outputs vs Stereo as Scott on the Tyros. But everything is subjective in the sound field.

Pro concert players are send the FOH a mono signal form their Motifs Whether summing AFTER they get a nice stereo mix for themselves or just using the left out.

The phase issues of the mono out are not worse than those same issues cropping up in a live room for those not sitting in the "sweet spot" and hearing reflections of separate program material. Big rooms never use Stereo for FOH sound systems yet they all have stereo keyboards and effects from guitar racks and efx boxes...go figure

Why doesn't Bose add a stereo unit to their product line to please the stereo buffs? Maybe they'd rather sell two units. I've parked my model II, preferring two powered speakers instead.

I am convinced people who buy two Bose units (outside of the compacts which don't have the array of the real units)don't understand the concept of the Bose in the first place....
It is really a waste of $3000. One can buy a hell of a conventional Stereo PA system for that.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-16-2010).]

Beats me how anyone can come up with these ridiculous statements about mono being superior to stereo, when actually TESTING your statements is so bone-stupidly easy...

Get a favorite CD track. One you are familiar with. Import it into an audio editing program (don't need a fancy one). About every 30 secs or so, select the audio and apply a 'MONO' preset for about 30 seconds. So you'll have a track that switches back and forth from stereo to mono, but doesn't change amplitude (the ears are VERY sensitive to small changes in amplitude).

Now, set up a stereo PA, or play it through your home stereo. Walk around the room. Listen to the track. Can you hear when it changes from mono to stereo from anywhere OTHER than the 'sweet spot'?

You bet your sweet a$$ you can!

Until you are playing rooms SO LARGE that reflected sounds overpower direct ones (and how many of us play those? ) you are going to get SOME stereo effect from anywhere. Is it going to be as good as the 'sweet spot'? Of course not... But it is certainly a LOT more than no effect at all.

Before you make blanket statements about audio, it's best to actually CHECK your assumptions...

Now, this doesn't necessarily answer whether one or the other is BETTER for a particular venue or person, but you can easily check the fallacy that there is no stereo except in the 'sweet spot'.

Or try your Electric pianos...
in Mono vs Stereo.......and listen to the phase/chorus..........then again some people dont care what they sound like.