The wait for me is finally over! I live in Sydney Australia and now have the XF6 sitting in front of me.

The first shipment into Australia arrived on Monday and was delivered to my local store today!

I have been flicking through most of the sounds and arps already and it is a huge difference over the XS.

Its 9:10 PM right now and I can see a sleepless night coming up! i am going to feel it at 9:00am in the office tomorrow morning

.....back to playing my Motif XF

Nick

Congrats Nick. Enjoy your new XF. I have the XS and I'm curious to hear what new incremental features of the XF you really like.

Have Fun!
Al

Congratulations... its a great instrument for sure, espescially for live with the flash memmory.

Are you using it on top of an arranger?

What's the area you think is the huge improvement? Sounds, OS, layout, Performances...? Did you have an XS?

Not shooting you down, just want to know

I have heard the opposite...that it is NOT a huge difference..a few more sounds is about it. But the sounds seem to have been eq'd a bit to make them all sound a bit sharper and punchier..

Again, not my views just am8 who is a long time Motif user.

Dennis

I spent hours last night experimenting with the sounds, arps and performances.

Not only are there new sounds in almost every category but nearly every existing sound from the XS sounds simply "better".
Its just an overall upgrade to the entire wav ROM.

In the performance mode, there are now alot more 'usable' performances that are actually easier to play with (arranger style).
for example: there are now ballads, 8 beat, alot of 4/4 patterns that were not in the XS.

The XS had some excellent sounding performances which are still all in the XF BUT they are just full of less 'fluff' and 'noises' if you get me?

The OS is virtually the same except for the fact that you can fully customise the layout of the home screen.
anyone who has used the XS would have absolutely no issues using an XF, there really is no 'learning curve' to get your teeth into.

Drums sound amazing. the new trance basics 2 is very fat and punchy, the new acoustic oak and maple kits are great as well but again all the other drum kits just sound better.

There are some great new bases / synth bases / S6 acoustic pianos (from the Yamaha S90XS) / the brass category has alot of new editions.
the new section strings voices in the Strings category are very realistic, there is an awesome symphinic tremolo strings.

choirs sound sooo much more real than the XS as well.
There is a choir voice called Nativity which blows me away.

Alot of very usable and punchy new trance lead and bass arpeggios are also included as well.

I am not a sales rep from Yamaha or being biast but i think anyone who says this board is hardly any different really to the XS has not had this board in front of them and looked in the rigth areas long enough.


Nick

I have a PSR S910 which is my go-to board when I want to bang out some on the fly arranger playing. But I use the Motif about 90% of the time.

having the two boards side by side you can notice such a HUGE difference in the key feel and sound quality. The Motif just sounds so much more live and punchy.

Nick

Guy I am quoting as I said is a LONG time Yammie user...dates back the original motif. He is also a Yammie dealer...Its only hearsay, as I have nto heard the XF myself but I do tend to take notice of what he says.

BTW Nativity is on the XS as well

Dennis

There have been a couple of people on the Motifator forum that have claimed that after 'testing' the Motif XF they hardly notice any feasible difference to the XS. (I am not saying your friend is one of these people)

This is a vast minority and their reviews have been biased only to certain sound categories and NOT the entire collection.

I owned an XS for 3 or so years and I can instantly hear the difference on the XF. it is WORTH the hype.

Nick

As long as you like it then that's a win

Dennis

I don't think so. The ROM is about twice as much as the XS so even if it's only a few more sounds, it should mean that all the sounds have more samples, articulations, etc

great instrument. Would you say that it's easy to reproduce all the functions of an arranger, minus the intros and endings?
Are the arps as good as styles?

What interests me about a Motif over a PSR-s is the detailed sequencer, but I still use styles a lot.

Until Yamaha add in the capability to drop into a loop on anything OTHER than the 'one', rather than cuing them up a bar in advance, there's a DRASTIC difference between the Motif's and the arrangers.

On an arranger, you hit the fill button, it IMMEDIATELY drops into the fill, still in time with itself. Unless I have heard wrong, there's nothing that can do this on a Motif.

AFAIK, you also can't change inversions on bass and keyboard parts. Root only (unless the arp is written as an inversion), I believe.

Want to remind yourself how arrangers used to be, right when they first came out? Get the latest WS's...

yeah, I have to agree. No matter how many great synth workstation there are, like Yamaha Motif and Roland Juno G, I still want an arranger, and it has to be a Yamaha because it's the only one that has a 'chord track'. Technics keyboards had that too.

Also, using different chord inversions to me is essential.

Thanks for the clarifications,I'll stick to arrangers....the Motif is a great instrument but for composing a full arrangement quickly to me nothing beats an arranger.


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[This message has been edited by arranger_yes_pc_no (edited 10-22-2010).]

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[This message has been edited by arranger_yes_pc_no (edited 10-22-2010).]

Nick G. has a similar view about the XF that I had. I played an XF8 a while back and I thought it was a step up from the XS sound wise as well. Out of the box the XF really shines but I do have a few issues with it not the least is the smaller, lower resolution LCD screen than my huge, higher resolution Roland Fantom G7 has. I noticed also in low light it is difficult to gauge and read the panel buttons etc., that are on the Motif XF which could possibly interfere and hinder a live performance where low lighting is used. Kudos to Yamaha for giving the XF a large Flash RAM capability for storing samples and I assume other types of files. It is funny though that Yamaha doesn't list the XF specs on their site yet. Will they ever?? The XF is already on store shelves and Yamaha.com doesn't have specs listed for the XF yet??? Whoever runs their website should get with it and post them asap. First it was Yamaha not posting the WAV ROM amounts for the Tyros 2/3, etc. and now they don't post anything at all for the Motif XF OR the Tyros4?? Bizarre to say the least. Yamaha must feel entitled to do whatever they want since they're the big cheese in the keyboard arena. It must be nice being able to keep your customers and/or potential customers in the dark I guess... right Yammie?

All the best,
Mike

As I said m8, which you seemed to have deliberately cut-off to make it seem like that was MY view....I was only passing on an alternate view given to me by someone else.

I personally have not heard it.

I HAVE used an XS pretty extensively even to the point of TRYING to get use it as an arranger.

It did not really come close. I mean, some of the arps are cool for about 16 bars, but try running even four different ones over a 5 min jazz tune, and they soon get tiresome. No half-fills, no variation fills, even the arps within a category are very similar.

And, live, I found the only way that really worked without too much forethought was having the variation start immediately on the button press.
Having to think a bar ahead was a pain.

LOL, I can tell you you really need to have good button pushing timing!!! I had some funny segues at times

Dennis

Hi Mike,

I think you haven't seen Yamahasynth.com before? specs and WAV rom are listed here about the XF http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/synthesizers/motif_xf/#specification-anchor

So obviously the Motif is NOT an arranger. BUT you can make it kinda close in some ways.
In the performance mode you have 5 variations of the performance that are all fully configurable.
you can switch between the 5 variations in realtime or by measure.

What this means is you can make 1 or 2 or more of the variations very short so they act as fill ins and you can set thats variations to "Realtime" so when you press the variation button it will INSTANTLY go into a fill. OR if it is configured to be my "Measure" it will change to the fill in timing at the next bar.

I have made some performances VERY close to some styles that are on the Tryos BUT you are limited to only 4 tracks.

Now in each track you have 8 elements. so we can technically have 8 x 4 WAV samples playing simultaneously.
its completely configurable.

generally you have Track 1 as the drum kit, track 2 as a bass, track 3 as a combination of pad, synth noises, loops, whatever you want, and then track 4 as your right hand playing voice.

using the AF1 and AF2 buttons you can allow certain elements to cut in and out in realtime so this gives you alot more granularity as well. The control surface with the 8 sliders and knobs can also make your 4 tracks variate in MANY ways. even though YES I would kill to have at least 2 more tracks in the performance mode, there is still ALOT you can surprisingly do with 4 tracks playing simultaneously.

One thing I have noticed that no other brand has (maybe korg but prove me wrong), is that some arpeggios have full chord recognition and some do not.

For example a looping 4/4 bass guitar arpeggio can recognize the chord you are playing on the keyboard in any octave section. so what this means is you can play full 3 or more finger chords on the left hand triggering off pads and other channels but the bass line will play in the chord the keyboard recognizes.

SOME other arpeggios are triggered just by a single note and can muffle if you hit a 3 notes in one go.
There is a lot of granularity and personal customization on this machine, alot more than most arranger players may think or know.

hope this helps...

Nick

Nick

Hi Miden,

I just want to add because maybe you missed this feature when you used the XS:
firstly to clarify - the XS had about 6000 arpeggio patterns already out of the box. the XF has over 7000.

The arps are all categorized and there are already pre set arps for 8 beat, rock, trance, jazz, latin for all types of instruments (drum arps, bass arps, pad, guitar strums ETC ETC)

ANY sequence that you make in the song or pattern mode CAN be converted to an arp so you can call it up in your performance and play it in a live situation with CHORD RECOGNITION (something the ROLAND Fantom doesn't have and I don't know about the Korg M3)

You can also import ANY midi file into the keyboard's sequencer and convert that to an arp using the "put track to arpeggio" function as well. Its VERY easy.

The beauty is that when you use an arpeggio in the performance mode, you can assign it to respond to chord recognition or not.

Please dont take me wrong i am not trying to cut you down or be defensive, but I want to clarify this to any people who are genuinely interested or curious in case they are mislead.

Nick

Nah thanks Nick, I did not actually miss those when I had mine

Its all good m8 and I do understand why you are posting the info as you are...

The XS was just sooo close to working for me, and it was such a wrench to let it go BIGTIME, as I loved the sound....But I am like a lot of other musos I guess, too poor to own several keyboards, so it had to go to help cover the cost of the replacement.

Dennis

I am sure this Motif is an excellent instrument. I myself have been into synth workstations for years, (Kurzweil K2000, Korg Trinity, Roland XP80....although that stuff is prehistoric now )

I guess there is no point in wanting a synth workstation to become and arranger, and vice-versa...it's just two different type of instrument for musicians with different attitudes. The synth WS offers a lot more in terms of sounds and control over it, better keybeds, and a more professional build.

Arrangers don't have all these advanced controls for sounds ,most of them have terrible keybeds in comparison , and lower build quality ,although they do have all the real-time style stuff....that's really the only reason why I'll keep using them, otherwise I think the arranger WS is behind the synth WS, especially in terms of expandability and build quality.

Believe me I'd be very proud to own an XF, though....even if I'd have to write almost everything from scratch, I am sure it is a very inspiring and highly capable instrument.

+1. I have always said that Motif XS and XF are very poor arrangers. The styles only have 4 tracks and the real time controls needs to be improved. But there is still a lot you can do with the arranger section of the XS and XF. Hopefully in the next workstation for Yamaha, they will improve the arranger section.

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TTG

Sorry, Nick, but my understanding is that, unless you cue up a fill a bar in advance, if you set it up for instantly, it WILL go instantly to the fill loop, BUT.... it will start one the 'one' of the loop, regardless of where in the bar you pressed for the fill loop. With an arranger, you ask for a fill on the 'two', it will START on the 'two'...

That's the only thing that rules it out as an arranger substitute, to be honest. The rest you can SORT of workaround (but it's a pain), but this one is a complete deal-breaker, IMO.

As I said originally Diki

Thing is, if the fill ALWAYS starts on the 'one', whether you cue it up or ask for it immediately, might as well always ask for it in the preceding bar... Unless you are talking about two or three beat fills, with the 'one' missing, that you have to hit on the 'two' or the 'three' to get them to work...

Oy veh! That has GOT to be a pain!

If you are trying to make a synth as close to an arranger as possible you will always encounter alot of pains thus why I have an S910 sitting next to it.

From my experience and what I have seen in the industry, the Motif XS/XF offer the closes features to an arranger amongst other Synths on the market today.

The Pads on the Fantom F8 are quite good and you can get very tricky with them but the fact that they don't respond to any chord recognition in realtime is a Pain...

Hopefully as models keep coming amongst the brands, better arranger-type functionality will be included.

Nick

Yep!! Was no-where near as easy to do as on an arranger. If a user is happy with two variations only its sorta do-able...But as you know there are only 5 slots available...

If you want an intro and an end, as most would because I tell ya, fading out all the time gets REAL boring, that leaves three spots, two for your vars and then one for a fill..

Not much to work with is it

Not to mention loading up midi files for live use is a real pain as well...You have got to go through about 3-4 steps to load ONE file.

If they had released the S70 XS with basic arranger functions it would still be with me and I would have dealt with the MIDI issue.

But Yamaha's claim that the S70 XS was a "Live Gigging" keyboard are quite exaggerated in my view.

Its essentially a "cut-down" Motif, which Yammie wiht a weighted (beautiful!!! to play) keybed.

Dennis