http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Preluded

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=55310976

I wonder if Roland is getting out of the arranger business all together. The Prelude wasn't out that long.

I was thinking the same when Roland ended the collaboration with MidiSpot.
Too bad, but most probably a fact.

Another thought...you know Roland usually closed out a model before they release the new model...

As an example the G1000 was a closed out model with a dealer incentive to purchase them (under $1,000)...

The rumors are out there...the Prelude wasn't all that successful, and neither was the GW-8, if you believe the music dealers.

Not surprising...I played the GW-8 and it was disappointing overall.

Ian

"Not surprising...I played the GW-8 and it was disappointing overall."

It was especailly disapointing for me- it has all the styles I need but they sound toy like to me.

[This message has been edited by montunoman (edited 10-25-2010).]

I certainly hope so ....Roland is NOT counted out yet..

Well, they closed out more than one model this time, G-70, G-80 and now perhaps
Prelude is out as well....... A kind of bad sign, isn't it?

The situation with Roland is right across their entire keyboard range, in my view.

The problems started with the Fantom G really, maybe even earlier. The market was expecting something pretty big, and Roland delivered a real dud!!

They lost a large slice of whatever work-station market share they had to Yamaha after that debacle. Not that the Fantom was a dog, it was just it was mostly only re-hashed older Fantom technology with some new PC type operations.

Same can be said for the Sonic Cell. I guess the only bright light was the new Juno series which were, and as far as I can see from forums, still are, quite popular.

As the dollars dried up from their Pro keyboard markets, I think this equated to less $'s going into more R+D for the arranger division, already suffering BIG-TIME following terrible sales of the G70 and then E80.

Roland tried to recover a bit with the release of the cheap GW7, then 8 and the Preludes in an attempt, in my view, to generate some much needed cash flow into these divisions.

Again they fell flat as these keyboards, really, offered not much new to what had gone before. Certainly not enough to entice back those buyers leaving Roland in droves.

I think Yamaha placed their product at both the perfect price-point, AND the perfect marketing time to take advantage of the weak Roland position, and they (Yamaha) have been proven to be correct in this market assessment.

Personally I believe, there will be no further "serious" Roland arranger as we know it.

I even doubt if there will be anything but cheap alternatives to the Casio lines.

Until Roland gets its Pro Keyboard, and by that I mean Work Station, market share back with something really, REALLY special, then it's dismal times ahead.

However, I also believe the Cakewalk/Sonar, Edirol, Boss, and all the audio hardware divisions of Roland are doing quite well and will continue to do so.

Just my thoughts, for what its worth

Dennis

I've been a synth nut since the mid 70's...even helped Bob Easton with creating his sound set for his "360 Systems" digital sampling keyboard (back in the early 80's).
After following the posts here for many years and demoing so many incredible keyboards I am completely perplexed by Roland's philosophy. Maybe someone can explain it to me because I just don't get it. They build this beautiful...incredible sounding keyboard, the G-70. They follow it up with the E series arrangers which appear to utilize the same wonderful sound set used in the G-70. I remember hearing the G-70 for the first time and being blown away by the sounds. Even though I never got a chance to play the G-70...I did get to play the E-80. Again...knocked out by the sound. Next to the E-80 sat a Prelude. The Prelude is not even in the same league from a sound set stand point. What baffles me is why Roland has chosen to not move this incredible sound set developed for the G-70/E series down through their GW-8 and Prelude series. Yamaha, Korg, and Ketron seemed to have found a way to maintain the quality of sounds from the top models to their lower end models. Maybe they've sacrificed in certain areas...but the quality of sound seems to be in the same ballpark. It seems to me that Roland would have had greater success if they would have maintained consistency from the top models down through the lower end. The other companies have done it. I've had a Tyros...an PSR-S900...and now have the PSR-S710. The quality of sound is consistent. If the Prelude sounded as good as the E-80 next to it...I think it would have given Yamaha a considerable amount of competition. Why is Roland hoarding this wonderful sound set? Seems crazy to me. Anyway...I've ranted long enough. By the way...the E-80 I did the comparison with is still available at Brent's Music in Fort Myers, FL. Just ask for Jim in keyboards and tell him Mitch sent you. I know he's anxious to sell it. If I had the money I'd buy it myself.
800-936-7625.

I have real concerns about Roland too. For what it's worth I played a G70 and didn't really like it all that much. To each his own though. One thing that plagued the G70 was its lack of more current technology but you can understand this when you realize it's been around for ever it seems. Plus G70 sales didn't generate the income Roland was hoping for which I think is the reason they haven't offered anything new in the high end arena in 76 keys. Roland recently scrubbed the G70 from their website and hopefully it will mean a new high end arranger (in 76 key flavor) that will grace winter NAMM 2011. If not NAMM maybe Musikmesse 'll. If not Musikmesse then God knows when but perhaps Roland will indeed forgo anymore high end arrangers or even bow out of the arranger arena altogether like some are suggesting. Pity if they do because less options means less competition and less competition means higher prices and less choice for consumers. Can you imagine if everybody bows out except Yammie?? We'll have the Tyros29 with mediocre Drum Kits, only 61 measly keys, costing upwards of $20,000 in the year of our Lord 2032. And Yammie will probably still be selling a boat load of 'em to devoted Yammie fans willing to take a second mortgage out on their house to buy the next 'incremental' quote: "wonder" - depending on who you talk to - from the folks at Yamaha Japan who are laughing all the way to bank in Hamamatsu - at your expense. Which is a sad joke Yamaha is playing in my opinion. Which unfortunately a lot of people don't mind playing along with them. To each his own I reckon. One thing it does do is to stimulate the economy with a massive influx of money into the global economy in these dire economic times. Yamaha thanks you from the bottom of their "bottom line" heart I might add. Minus any Indian Drum kits or other Indian instruments of value to speak of on the Tyros4 I should mention too. Or the 76 keys that roughly half of all arranger players would rather have as well. That hasn't swayed Yamaha though obviously.

All the best,
Mike

You bet your bippy they'll sell a boat load...did you ever figure it's because they know their market very well?

Swaying any successful company from it's course takes accurate figures...and so far, none have been forthcoming.

Ian

Korg is here to stay.
At least in the forseeable future.

It may however come down to those 2.
IMHO

Lee S.

Seems like Fran is the ONLY one who likes the Prelude

I might try one for 30 days.

I thought the GW-8 was quite good from a technical standpoint, but it's main problem was that the styles themselves were not mixed that well, and a lot of them weren't even written that well.

I keep going on and on about CONTENT, but for an arranger, especially NOT an open one that seems to be popular amongst those willing to do everything from scratch (mind you, with decidedly dodgy results), it's almost the ONLY thing... Roland stopped doing their styles in house quite a while back, and going to MidiSpot, a third party house, looking to make styles that worked in a variety of manufacturers' models has turned out to be a very bad move.

From having worked with a GW-8L for quite a while, I can assure you that in the sounds and technology, at its' price point, it was an excellent arranger... But what SUCKS is how well the style developers leveraged that technology. It took me no more than ten minutes per style to tweak them into something FAR more even and usable, but this is post OS2. Originally, when it was released, no editing at all, virtually. Now you have a Makeup Tools system, similar to the G70 etc. (but harder to use because no touch screen, and no detail drumkit editing, either) and you CAN tweak away.

But someone needs to tell these idiot manufacturers that they need to pretend that NO editing can be done at all. And that it should NOT hit the shelves until it sounds its' best.

I truly believe that Roland needs new blood. It's founding father Ikutaro Kakehashi is now 80, and little innovation is going on. These are certainly difficult times for the keyboard industry... global recession, stiff competition from software instruments, a decline in live music and in music education programs, the list goes on and on. It is hard to see where things will end up.

But Roland may well have decided that the BOTHER of making a good arranger, given declining overall sales in keyboards, and their unwillingness to make sure a new release is PERFECT OOTB, isn't worth the trouble any longer. I can hardly blame them.

In the meantime, they went out on a high note. I now have a backup G70, and, as I have said for a long time, nothing exists from ANY manufacturer that does what it does best... I have no problem envisioning playing it happily for as long as I can lift it! Were I to need a 'pure' arranger for solo gigs, I might take a look at Yamaha, if they make a 76. In the meantime, five years and counting, still getting wow! comments from everyone I play with, and not the SLIGHTEST desire to move away from it...

Not bad, Roland... Not bad! You'll be missed by a lot of mayflies, who are constantly looking for the NEXT best thing, to assuage their lack of, well who KNOWS what they find so lacking in what they have?! I'm just glad I got the BEST thing you ever made (apart from maybe the Jupiter8!)

Appreciate your post Diki. I hope to find a GW8 locally here to check out these unbalanced styles you mention. I sure am spoiled with the 800 ease of editing - a breeze. In fact, that whole board is designed for a tech novice like me.

I dunno. I'd still prefer to put some effort into an E80, but they are very pricey.

I have so much work to do and songs to complete, it's ludicrous to think about adding anything else at this point.

Zuki - As I mentioned in my post, there is an E-80 available (last time I was there)through Jim at Brent's Music in Fort Myers, FL. The instrument is in beautiful condition and sounds great. I know he is anxious to sell it...so it might be worth making him an offer if your interested. I wish I could swing it myself. Phone number is 800-936-7625.

Mitch

Jim, E80 can be found...cheap...Don Mason just sold his for around $1,500..in perfect condition..

Also the Prelude is the better buy over the GW8....The lyric read alone (only on the Prelude) is worth the choice...and I know you like built in speakers..

Crystal ball again?...all unfounded info about Roland.

Diki quote.."In the meantime, they went out on a high note. I now have a backup G70, and, as I have said for a long time, nothing exists from ANY manufacturer that does what it does best... I have no problem envisioning playing it happily for as long as I can lift it! Were I to need a 'pure' arranger for solo gigs, I might take a look at Yamaha, if they make a 76. In the meantime, five years and counting, still getting wow! comments from everyone I play with, and not the SLIGHTEST desire to move away from it..."

I am in agreement with Diki...I too am more than content if this was the last keyboard I would own....I also found it to be the best all around keyboard I ever played...

When Roland does release a new model (and they will.. )....it will have to be something special to make me change...just as the G70 did with my G1000...a deciding factor for me would be the same quality I found in the G70 ..with the added media player from the Prelude...

Can't wait .... !

I'm afraid you have to, Crystal Ball or not....

But if I'm wrong regarding my feeling about Roland wave goodbye to top end arranger kb's,
and they surprise us by release a G-70 successor, it would be great!

Why not just wait and see shall we....
no rush there are so many great arranger KB's on the market already.

Fran, I think that's marvelous that the G-70 will last you far into the future, and you'd be content if it was the "last keyboard I would own."

I feel that way about my S910...although, I am glad that still further new features will be added in the next iteration of the series.

Right now, I'm seriously considering the Tyros4...t'would make a great "last keyboard" for me, if I decide to retire next year.

Maybe Roland will come back with guns blazing, and introduce a new TOTL arranger...it sure will be interesting.

Ian

Purely wishful thinking only!!

Roland will not be releasing anything in a fully featured top of the range arranger again in my view.

And I don't think there will be much at the bottom end of the arrangers either.

They need to get many other things in order before worrying about this tiny, TINY segment of their entire operations.

Let's see if I've got this straight... There seems to be the most interest in a new Roland from those who currently play something ELSE. And, exactly as they have for every single arranger Roland have made in the last few years, those same moist panties breathless anticipation clairvoyant pundits will find the EXACT same reasons to not buy it. IT AIN'T A YAMAHA...

Strange that those that DO play the G70 seem to be a pretty content bunch. But those that don't are always the ones the MOST interested in anything new... Maybe there's a lesson to be learned? The more you want a machine to do most of your work, the more important the machine is. The more you rely on what YOU play, then the only important thing the machine needs to do is give you great sounds...

Not so content that they NEED to post ENDLESSLY about wanting a 76'er by YAMAHA....yes, YAMAHA!!

I like Roland, but not enough to want one.

Ian

Good job too. Wouldn't want us BOTH to be disappointed that what we need is not important to either the company or it's users..!

BTW, all I have ever said is I want to ADD a Yamaha. No way is this puppy EVER going to be retired!

Of course that's what you said.

The G-70 does what you want...it's just so bloody heavy, and you're not gettin' any younger...additionally, your quest for a PSR 76'er appears to have reached an impasse.

Maybe Fran can advise you on how to recruit a bevy of young, strong, and (preferably) beauteous roadies...before you hurt yourself.

Plus, they say you're only as old as the woman you feel.

Ian

I found a couple "roadies" for Diki..Gary D doesn't need them anymore...

Mmmm...Gary always did like 'em young...

You can bet that ain't tea in those cups...it's pure Kickapoo.

I couldn't keep em' out of the Kickapoo Juice long enough to get the gear outa' the van. They're nice gals, Diki--treat them well. I'll sure miss those ladies!

Bye ladies,

Gary

There you go again putting down the elders.

For Shame

Guys, how about a GW-7, purchased new from George Kaye, turned on once...still in the box?

Or, an SH-201, again, turned on once-still in the box? I think there's replacement, now for that, too.

Damn, it's a sickness!


Russ

Hey now, these ladies are starting to look good to some of you

Zuki that "Depends".. you know what they say ...



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-28-2010).]

Sorry, guys, but I wouldn't want to steal any of your audience away from you...!

Sorry to remain hale and hearty, and capable of lifting a 6 year old boy off the ground (average weight, 45 lbs.). Some of your grandkids must be VERY sorry you guys can't lift that much!

I could lift the E80. Just didn't want to. Grandkids are something else again!
DonM

How much does the G-70 actually weigh in a road/flight case? Surely you wouldn't transport such a beast in a mere gig bag?

60 lbs? 70 lbs?

Of course the large instrument might be awkward, do ya think?

Put one of your grand-kids in a road case, and carry one of them around...

Yeah, sure.

Take the roadies.

Ian

Most 15" powered speakers with horns weigh in about the same as the G70 in a case. LOTS of us use those!

Anyway, if you can turn playing a flimsy lightweight action into a VIRTUE, surely getting in some honest exercise every day ought to be good for you...

Anyway, cases are meant to ROLL, not lift... Can't remember the last time I had to lift the whole thing. Perhaps you guys need a lesson in leverage, rather than One Finger Chord systems?

Well, first of all, I wouldn't drag around 15's...Bose L1's, Yamaha StagePas, or my Yamaha MS-60's work perfect for me.

Of course, I don't do loud, harsh aggressive music any more...it's time to kick back, and enjoy the more refined and lucrative gigs, more deserving of the refined and detailed Yamaha sound.

Use the dinosaur...it's your prerogative...and, like other home keyboards, it has one fingered chords, so that ought to keep you guys happy...you'll be too worn out from carrying it to play anything remotely complex...

Ian

My "real" gigs..I haul the G70 in a Gator case with the pocket filled with accessories...it weighs around 80 pounds...and worth every ounce to me...

The "real" gigs, I also haul a pair of Old Roland Cubes (15", 3-way) at 70 pounds each)..The Cubes have wheels, and the case has wheels....If I don't feel like moving them individually..I use the R@R R-10...Especially hauling the Apex stand and my accessory bag (another 30 pounds)...

I love it!!!..


For my mediocre jobs (band)...1 hour NH type....I carry the 17 pound Prelude and a 29 pound BA330.....and I am still happy...but not as happy as my "BIG" set up..

I'll let you guys know when I get "wimpy"...but at a young 67..no problems for me...YET!!!..

Well Fran you still have a few years to go to catch up to me, and I hope you never do. If you happen to catch up, that would really be bad news for this old man.

My grandson, who had his 3rd birthday in June, tips the scales at 46 pounds, he's 43-inches tall, and I can still pick him up with one arm. Yesterday we were doing push-ups together (he can do more than me) then took a walk through the neighborhood for a couple miles. So, I guess I'm still in fairly good shape for my 70 years, and I can still single-handedly sail a 27-foot Catalina, which anyone that has sailed can tell you requires a fair degree of physical strength.

There was a time when I lugged 105-pound speakers around and didn't use a hand-cart. I also lugged a 55-pound keyboard and more accessories than anyone can imagine. Since then, speakers got lighter and more efficient, keyboards got lighter and sound much better, and because of this, my van is now lighter and more efficient. Tt seems that the only thing that consistently got heavier and less efficient were people.

Diki is still relatively young and can readily handle the heavier loads at this stage of life. Fran is creeping ever so slowly toward the precipice of where he's going to need those ladies he posted photos of to get both him and his gear out of his car. Don't look back Fran--there's a guy in a black, hooded outfit carrying a scythe and he's hot on your heels. (He a few yards closer to me, though.)

The bottom line is: Don't count us old guys out yet. We still have a few good years left and intend to use them to their fullest--even if means lightening the load ever more than we have.

Cheers,

Gary

Sheeeesh...I don't carry lighter gear because I'm weak...gee, I'm 6'2" and weigh 200 lbs, don't drink or smoke, and have no problem lifting.

I'm just very, very lazy, and at 61, I've had time to hone it down to a science, and any way of making my work easier, I'm going to do it...especially when I take no losses in my sound, gear quality and ease of use.

Ian the Indolent

yea, yea , yea,... .....
& televisions used to have Tubes ..

I've always said, they bring out something that works as well and sounds as GOOD as my G70, I'd be all over it... if it were much lighter. Just can't see compromising to save what, ten pounds? I only lift it twice... once out of the case to put on the stand, once to put it back. But I play it for HOURS... I got to put up with a lesser keyboard, to save myself two lifts?

Thing is, I seldom see anyone willing to admit that their lightweight keyboard is ANY kind of compromise at all... despite even the same manufacturer charging a LOT more for their heavier cousins. Even if you discount going from one manufacturer to another, and take the fanboy issue out of the equation, surely picking the LIGHTEST keyboard over the TOTL is at least SOME kind of compromise?

Ha...I used to fix TV's, Radios, Ham & CB.

It was fun when it had tubes...you could actually work on them!

Lee S.

Yes, now most products are disposable...can't get them fixed, only replaced.

Ian

Just because a keyboard is made of cast iron, doesn't mean it sounds better, good or bad. It just means it's heavier. The main reason I didn't go with a G-70 was I didn't like what I heard. Believe it or not, the main reason most folks buy a particular keyboard is not all the hype on the Zone or other forums--they actually buy them because of what they hear.

Now, that cast iron case doesn't make it more durable unless you have the tendency to drop the keyboard from a tall building. And, if you do, they all will break--even those made of steel. And, when it comes to strength, there are carbon fibers that are far superior in strength than steel or cast iron, and they weigh a fraction of the metal counterparts. Go figure. Guess the build BS is just that--BS.

So, it's still different strokes for different folks. I'll stick with my lightweight, plastic, great-sounding toy. I, and my audiences, like what they hear.

Cheers,

Gary