Okay, I know how silly this sounds ...

But I got my T4 yesterday (thank you Frank!), and the one (and only) feature I love about the T4 is the ability to use other samples in my drums.

I've been experimenting with this feature with some success today and wanted to know if there are any Audya owners out there who wouldn't mind sharing some real snare sounds with a Yammie.

All I need for now are SNARES. I'd like to hear as many as you can record. Please have no effects on them - not even reverb, and please record all the way to the end of the release, making sure the different samples are separated with silence.

I'd be happy to share the results on SZ.

----

I know many people are interested in my review on the T4. I hope to write a better review next week, but in a nutshell, it is an absolute WASTE of an upgrade. I owned the PSR8000, PSR 9000, Tyros, Tyros2, Tyros3 and now Tyros4, and never has there been such a miniscule upgrade as this one.

In short there are four new features:

- the new Vocal Harmony. I don't sing, so it makes no difference to me. In addition, it is not nearly as good as TC Helicon, and it doesn't have Fantom Power *roll eyes*

- Choir voices. If only there was a switch to turn them off so that I never have to hear them. They are recorded quite well, but are extremely gimmicky and corny, and I do not plan to use them ever.

- The new Real Drums are decent, although what I like is that I have the ability to replace their sounds with mine. I can't wait until the Audya people share some of their samples ... (if they can bring themselves to do so...)

- The new styles (except for the vocal ones which are just so corny), are very good. Especially the new entertainer ones.

- There are other minor things like a new violin and soprano sax, but nothing amazing to write about.

I should mention that I have been encountering bugs while upgrading. My samples have all changed volume, and some of my styles have been reset so that all the levels are at 100.

My verdict: Unless you are doing this professionally and just "need" to have the best, stick with the T3.

Thing about those Audya drum loops is, most patterns, there's something ELSE sounding while the snare is hit... a ride, a hihat, some Latin perc, sometimes a kick. Getting a clean sample might be quite a trick.

You want some seriously good snares that are clean? Try some of the VSTi libraries... BFD, EZDrummer, etc.. Plus, those have the advantage that they are recorded with many different samples for lighter and harder hits. JUST what you need to add to the T4's drums! Go for at least four hits per drum (more if you can).

With VSTi drum libraries, you can also dial in exactly as much 'room' sound as you need. You shouldn't be TOO dry

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 10-28-2010).]

Sorry, I should have clarified. Even before the Audio loops, Audya always had the best drum kits, so I'm hoping someone will be generous enough to record some WAVs of the snares in the manual drum kits.

(playing post catch-up!)

Thing is, I don't think I have YET heard an Audya demo with the MIDI kits. Sure, the loops are great, but I doubt the kits are much different from the SD-1. Not anything earth shattering, IMO.

You heard them yet?

Hi Chony
Do a Google for wav drum samples and you will find thousands out there (Many free) that will leave Ketron (And other hardware boards) drum samples for dead. (I assume T4 can load 24bit samples, if not make sure you select 16bit samples only)
The ultimate of course is as Diki said, use VSTi, unfortunately Yamaha arrangers are lousy controllers, (They were never designed for Pro use) and you can’t load VSTi on-board, so I am afraid your stuck with wav files.
Hope this helps

Bill

Can you show me where on Google you found good snare samples? I was not impressed with anything I heard...

So you bought a T4 just for what reason?

“My verdict: Unless you are doing this professionally and just "need" to have the best, stick with the T3.”
Does that mean that the T4 is the best for a professional?


Could not the T3 load samples?


------------------
TTG

I'm curious Chony, why don't you just purchase an Audya?

What is stopping you from trading in the Yamaha's for a Ketron if you love the drums so much?

Al

I think there is too much emphasis on these live drums....I also think these so called sampled drums will deter from the Yamaha sound & stand out like a sore thumb in a Style mix as an alien entity. Chony with all the negatives you have stated what did you think you were gonna get with the Tyros4 & didn't you Demo the unit before laying out all that money?

Chony, i forgot to ask another question. Have you tried any Audya styles in the Tyros 4?

Donny, I don't think it's the drum sounds on the Audya as much as the drum GROOVES that sound different from the Tyros. The audio drums are recordings of REAL drummers and the pocket that comes along with them as opposed to MIDI drums which are notoriously sterile and align to the exact measure.

Sometimes a drummer can play a little ahead of a 4/4 count to give a song a certain feel whereas I don't think you can micro-adjust a midi drum to do the same.

I don't know if I'm explaining this correctly, but if you spend some time with the Audya, you get a sense of a better feel and groove to the beat more so than the Tyros and the Pa2xpro.

Al

Hi Chony
Here is one site that has a selection of drums, http://www.tradebit.com/tagworld.php/drum+snares and there are many more.
Just type “wav snare samples” (Minus the quotation marks) into Google search


HI Al
Most drum samplers/computers/arrangers etc. Have a Humanizer function in them (Even my Wersi Alpha from the early 80s had it) that varies when the drums are hit, just like that occurs when a real drummer plays. (If they didn’t they would sound very regimented)

If you use VSTi this function can be set up to suit the user

Bill

I just think that once you start "FRANKENSTEINING" your sounds it just NEVER seems to sound right anymore....
and should I dare say that it's all "subjective" again.. In many cases LESS is MORE!

Oh yea, I agree with you there on not "over doing it". But I'm sure some interesting results can be achieved with adding some subtle samples to the styles. Yamaha seems to use this philosophy with their sound versus the raw in your face style of Ketron.

So I take it you were not overly pleased with the Audya sound when you and Fran demoed it?

Just Yesterday...I was revisiting the individual drum sounds on the PA2XPRO...WOW,,,I think they are very high quality.

I tried a little EQ tweeking on the drum track and I was amazed at how good it sounds.

I may get some time to record them (MP3) and if ayone cares to hear them I could post them.

Chony, I agree with others...find a good set of drum samples and go with that...it is not so easy to record an instrument in the quality you need.

Lee S.

Lets just say I wasn't surprised or blown away at all as I have peformed with so many Ketron units in the past, & pretty much aside from a few styles was pretty much the Ketron sound I am used to. What's did impress me was the overall USER FRIENDLY GIG USEFUL Navigational Deck Layout of the Audya 5.
In no way is it an "out of the box go & perform" unit, but with determination, knowledge, tweaking, editing, phone calls, emails, etc, etc, this can all be achieved for sure if your patient enough to tackle it.

We're waiting with abated breath ...
please hurry.

Chony,

I'm still trying to figure out why you purchased the T4. And, with all the things you say you don't like, I'm equally amazed that you have not either returned it, or put it up on Ebay. Did you listen to demos before deciding to buy? Did you travel to Frank's store in New England and try it out before making the leap? Did you tune the T4's EQs, compression, etc...?

Just curious,

Gary

Gary, this is another example of a new Tyros4 owner that expressed his opinion ..
"not worth upgrading from a Tyros3"...and that he was not excited about the 4 new features he has found other than being able to use sample drums...

Why question his decision? He wanted another keyboard..that apparently is just as good as his Tyros3, but says it is not much of a upgrade....

Chony, always seems to be content with purchases that many other folks do not see worth while...but he knows what he wants...

I am sure going from the Tyros..to Tyros2 ..and Tyros3...he knows not to expect any earth shaking improvements...but most likely just a replacement board for his work..

Even another post ..Leigh tried the Tyros4 for a couple hours..said he loved it..purchased it and after 48 hours ..disliked it....So even if we do try a board in the store..we can find we have a different opinion after a few days...I know I did after a few days with a Tyros3..as I did with the FantomX after a few months..or the PSR2100 after a few weeks...same with the Juno G, Juno Stage, and Sonic Cell..we can change our opinions after we get to play the units...

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 10-28-2010).]

I'm not sure, Fran--therefore I figured I'd ask Chony. We ALL know you're an impulse buyer!

Gary

To answer all those asking why I bought the T4 / why I don't return it...

There are a few reasons:

- There is only a $1000 difference between what I'll get when I sell the T3, to what I paid for the T4. Considering I do over 100 gigs a year, most of them weddings, it's not that expensive.

- I don't use the Tyros 4 the way most others do. I use this exclusively as a dance machine. Unfortunately, although Yamaha knows how to do great arrangements, they have no clue how to make dance beats (I'm talking about the under 25 age bracket). I therefore use ONLY my own styles, plus tens of samples. In addition, the majority of my music is ethnic so even if they were good Yamaha's styles don't help me.

- When it comes to dance music, drums are the most important instrument, and if there is a chance that I can improve on that, it's worth a try. Last night, I created 7 new drum kits which are quite good, and I'm sure when I get more serious about it, I'll make even better ones.

- Flash RAM: As a guy who uses tones of samples, having it at your fingertips with almost no load time is a dream.


Why I don't get a Ketron:

- Once again, I play ethnic music and the Western Audio loops don't help me that much.

- I'm told that the Audya is not good for customization and that it is very buggy when making your own styles and samples.

- I demoed the Audya when it came out and couldn't stand the right hand sounds...

Yep..I have always going that route...Buy something and try it the way I want to use it...if it doesn't do the job..offer to someone else....and I do it right, never lose a dime on my deals...and at the same time..I learn a lot more than demo at a store..

I think you would agree, playing on your gear/sound system/venues...is invaluable...and by far the best decision maker..

Heck I even opened a MI store so I could play with all the toys.. ..27 years ago already... ..with freedom the last 7-8 years (closed)..

Thanks Chony for the reply--clears up some confusion on my part.

Fran, Like I said "We ALL know you're an impulse buyer." Glad you haven't lost a dime on any of those buys. Is that because you buy them wholesale, use the equipment for a couple weeks, then sell them at a discounted price that's less than retail? No one that I know pays street price, or full bore, for used gear. Hmmmm! Maybe there's something I don't know about selling used equipment.

Cheers,

Gary

Mostly buying right..used or close outs..knowing the market value..and most important..insight to know it is/will still be a desirable purchase for someone..

Just not sure, with chony's list of what he does and needs, why the PA2Xpro wasn't the right choice...

Excellent sampler, FAR easier to use than the Tyros. Full synth editing. Excellent VH and vocoder. And Korg lead the pack with many ethnic music styles (especially Middle Eastern).

Why NOT Korg, chony?

for you info, Chony DOES have a korg. and a pa2x pro at that...

I believe Chony wants to use the most compact keyboard with the durability to last...he does travel a lot and always with his keyboard (Air)...The Korg , most likely too large for traveling..and the PSR s910..not durable enough for travel wear and tear...so he relies on a Tyros..

Chone great website and videos also...
good luck!


http://www.musicbychony.com/Site/Video.html

The Tyros is only slightly smaller and slightly lighter than the PA2Xpro. I don't see the point... If it MUST be smaller, why not a PA800? At least you would have data compatibility...

BTW, although you can't USE a VSTi drum program, you CAN export single hits as .wav's, to be reassembled in the arranger's sampler...

Good question ...

2 reasons:

- I bought a Pa2x, and just couldn't get used to the way it operates. I guess Yamaha has brain washed me with its ease of use

- I have countless programs, styles, samples already made for the Yamaha. The thought of starting it all over again always makes my stomach churn. I believe that my Yamaha programs are much better than what is available on the market for Korg. Hopefully I'll get around to posting some samples...

If I felt the Korg was so much better I'd make the switch, but I feel that when you weigh all the pros and cons of the Korg and Yamaha they end up pretty equal.

If only there was a keyboard with the rhythm section of the Audya, the sounds and interface of the Yamaha and the flexibility of the Korg.

Chony

[This message has been edited by chony (edited 10-29-2010).]