Curious... a really good piano player... can he play NOTE-FOR-NOTE identical when transposing to another key? As in, if the playing where put to staff music, his playing in key of Eb would be identical to key of E if they were both transposed to the same key?

Or does the geometry of the keyboard change things up a bit?

Say, you a session cat and the artist wants things dead on. Song is arranged in key of E but he can't sing it that day in that key, so, it's lowered to Eb. Piano player can nail those exact licks? Would he be able to do this in every single key?

That's what a 'transpose' button is for ... seriously, - and while I am responding, I do NOT consider myself a piano player - but, with my limited knowledge, I would say that playing certain passages is going to be easier in some keys than in others because of the layout of the keyboard - and the fingering will be different - ... using your Eb/E example, if I were playing a simple Eb scale with the right hand, I would start with my second finger on the Eb, play the F with my first finger (thumb) and bring the second finger over to play the G, Ab with the third finger, Bb with the fourth, bring the thumb under the fourth to play the C, second finger plays the D and the third finger plays the Eb ... playing an E scale I would start with the first finger (thumb)on E and play the next two notes with the second and third fingers, bring the thumb under the third finger to play the A, and just finish the scale with each finger in succession ...
Now, as to whether a 'pianist' could play all the licks in every key, that would depend on the ability of the pianist ...
I knew an accordion player who played in the style of the great Art Van Damme - all 'block chords - this guy played every song he knew in every key ...
It would be great to hear from the 'real' piano players on this ...
t.

[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 11-11-2010).]

My experience in the studio is, projects are divided into separate groups:

1. Someone is funding a recording for their granddaughter. they rely on a producer (me, in many cases) to manage the session, including arrangements, keys, instrumentation.

2. An experienced person, with time in the studio always listens to the input of others.

3. Not many people come in with lead sheets
and firm arrangements at the place I'm associated with as an investor and studio arranger/producer/player.


Russ

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 11-11-2010).]

I spent many years in the "recording" studio as an arranger, composer, conductor, producer and sometimes singer in NYC. In my experience in the studios the musicians were able to do what you're posting with little problem. It didn't happen to often, but once in a while it did. These musicians are incredible players.
I once arranged a track for a singer named Len Barry, he had a hit called "123" I believe in the 60's. The producer gave me the key and range he would sing it in (he was in Europe at the time) and told me to write the arrangement. At the time of the session, which was at RCA studios, the key was a minor 3rd to high. The musicians transposed it down a minor 3rd with no problem.

A few times I had to make changes in the arrangement on the spot and you do it.


I reluctantly respond to posts like this because most people don't believe you or think you're just exaggerating. But it's true.

I spent many years in the "recording" studio as an arranger, composer, conductor, producer and sometimes singer in NYC. In my experience in the studios the musicians were able to do what you're posting with little problem. It didn't happen to often, but once in a while it did. These musicians are incredible players.
I once arranged a track for a singer named Len Barry, he had a hit called "123" I believe in the 60's. The producer gave me the key and range he would sing it in (he was in Europe at the time) and told me to write the arrangement. At the time of the session, which was at RCA studios, the key was a minor 3rd to high. The musicians transposed it down a minor 3rd with no problem.

A few times I had to make changes in the arrangement on the spot and you do it.


I reluctantly respond to posts like this because most people don't believe you or think you're just exaggerating. But it's true.

'

Musicman22 very cool! As soon as you said the name Len Barry I remembered the tune "123"

I was trained on piano and all by reading music. I need the transpose button no question about it.

I don't know why the above message was posted twice. I probably did something wrong.
I apologize.

Yes, some piano players can play anything in any key. I had a piano teacher that could do that. Bach two part inventions, Charlie Parker beboplines, boggie woggie,Hanno exercises, pop songs, jazz standards, by ear or sight reading- it didn't matter. He could really play ANYTHING in any key.

I try to include transposition exercises in all my practices. I'm no where near the level of my old teacher but it's fun to try.

Also that particular teacher has perfect pitch- which I think helps him with transposition.

There are a few types of licks and figures that would be very difficult if not impossible to play in every key. But these are rare. For instance, if Jerry Lee does one of his gliss rakes across the white keys, essentially creating an extremely fast major scale, how could you do that in F#? It's mostly a sound effect, granted, but there would be no way to finger that F# major scale that quickly.
And there are some grace note type things that you can do with one finger sliding off a black key onto a white key, which would take 2 fingers to do going from a white key to a black key, and this would slightly change how the grace note slur thing sounds. So I'd say no, not absolutely every single thing that is done in 1 key could be done in all 12 keys, but most things can be.

In fact, that is how I've been able to tell sometimes when transpose is being used. There's this really fast country instrumental tune I have a recording of in B-flat. And the piano takes am amazing solo, but in one little spot there is a tiny mistake where his finger hits 2 white keys at once; he gets in the crack rather than hitting the key exactly. Dead giveaway that he was playing the solo in A and transposed it up to Bb, because that mistake wouldn't have been possible in Bb due to the layout of the keys.

[This message has been edited by FAEbGBD (edited 11-12-2010).]