ok, the end of the year is soon approaching, so what better time for us to (re)evaluate our current arranger keyboard setup.

I believe that member's answers to the following questions might provide some valuable insight into which brand/model arranger might 'best fit' the needs of a given player. Thanks for all input & participation:

1) What music genre do you enjoy playing most/least?

2) Which arranger(s) make/model do you currently own/play?

3) Does it (they) continue to satisfy your music production/performance needs and desires?

4)What are the things you like most and least about your current arranger setup?

5) Which arranger keyboard(s) (both currently available & soon to be released) are you interested in possibly upgrading to. Which attributes about them appeal to you, and which (if any) possible negative attributes about them concern you?

1. jazz/blues/r&b
2. Korg PA1x pro/Tyros 2
3. No
4. Korg is fine for what I use it for (mostly drums). Rarely touch the Tyros 2.
5. No plans to upgrade as I don't use arrangers professionally and the Korg fulfills all of my 'arranger' needs.

chas

hi Chas Thanks for being the 1st to reply. I trust you're feeling better and on the mend from your recent illness. Considering the fact that your fav genres are jazz, blues & R&B, and your Korg PA1X Pro your preferred kb (particularly its drums), I'm anxious to hear more thoughts from you about this, as my music background (college days: piano jazz combo before discovering arrangers) was similar. Do Korg arrangers include many jazz styles (including swing brushes) and are they suitable for performing tunes included in the Real Book. and playing lounge gigs?

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Here are my answers to the questions I posed:


1) Music Genre Most Played:

a) Jazz standards (3-4 piece combo setting): Porter, Gershwin, Jobim, etc. Cocktail Hour jazz requirements: decent acoustic piano patch a most; good Jazz brushes a plus.

b) Pop/Rock/Country/R&B: 50's - Present: solid rhythm sec. backing styles Require good sounding voices: esp. keyboards, organs, guitars, & synths.

Music Genre least played:
atonal music

2) Yamaha Tyros2

3) Overall still satisfied, but looking for improvements (see #4)

4) I've been playing Tyros2 for 5 years now and overall, still pretty satisfied with its sound & performance. I love the SA voices & ability to load & utilize custom sound samples. I find the Vocal harmonizer (after tweaking) acceptable for live performance (though definitely not 4 studio rec). T2's weakness sound-wise is that it doesn't have the full bodied live sound & punch (esp drums) that Ketron keyboards deliver. Overall, I like Yamaha's performance navigation system (REGs, OTS, etc), but one important feature improvement that would make calling up songs (when performing live) far better, is for Yamaha to add the ability for its MusicFinder to call up custom REG BANK files.

As far as construction, I really appreciate T2's relative lightweight portability, but don't like the body design (sharp corners) or poor silver paint finish, because as early as after 6 months I bought it, the silver paint began wearing off the buttons and body shell corners. Also, after a year, the headphone jack & a couple of the arranger function buttons began to act flaky. I later learned that a quick shot of contact cleaner solved those problems.

5) The three arrangers I'm currently considering to replace the Tyros2 are:

1) Yamaha Tyros4 / S910 successor
2) Korg PA3X / Korg PA800's successor
3) Ketron Audya

I listed Tyros4 first merely because it's the natural succession to what I already play so probably the easiest to transition to. That said, I'm unwilling to purchase a Tyros4 until Yamaha releases an update fix to correct the style creator issues that Chony reported and that Steve Deming and several other T4 owners have also confirmed. The inability to save ones edited styles is too an important feature to live without.

In light of this, I'm intrigued with what the next gen of Korg brings, or the Ketron Audya , for their impressive 'live sounding' rhythm section styles. My biggest reservation switching to Korg, and more so with Audya, is the learning curve, and style availability, particularly swing jazz & brushes. An even greater concern are the reported reliability issues I've read about Ketron arrangers. Then again, I realize that DonM and others say they experienced no problems of that nature.

Having played Yamaha arrs for over ten years now, it's gonna be difficult to decide between an arr brand I've grown so comfortable with (though perhaps a little bored with too), and moving to a totally new arranger that will mean new learning challenges yet offers the live backing sound I'd really appreciate.

The other arr feature important to me is auto accompaniment 'chord recognition'. As some of you remember, I made it a personal crusade to get the arranger manufacturers to incorporate 'jazz style' (ala Bill Evans) rootless chords to their chord recognition table, of which enables you to comp in the style of Wynton Kelly & Bill Evans . Yamaha & Technics always supported this, but over the last few years, Ketron & Korg finally added this feature so appreciated by jazz pianists too. Kudos to Ketron & Korg. Regretfully for me, The last holdout remains Roland, so I'm still not able to consider a Roland yet. In conclusion, Whatever arranger I eventually upgrade to, it's definitely going to be a difficult choice.

That said, any observations, recommendations & input appreciated. - Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 11-13-2010).]

1) Latin Guitar music (Beguine, Bolero, Bossa), standard 8 beats, Dance and Trance.

2) PSR S910

3) Satisfies but still leaves me wanting more. wish it had alot more Synth sounds and ways to give voices better effects like gates and auto arpeggiation (My Korg PA 800 could do it)

4) MOST:
- Ease of use and navigation. modifying and created styles are easy as well.
- How easy and quick it is to import new files and setups.
- The File system is superb and so easy.
- One of my favorite features is the SA Concert Guitar Voice!

LEAST:
- very weak voice editing.
- I miss being able to layer 3 voices
- I don't like the shallow mushy keybed and the rubber buttons.
- I dont like the look and physical button layout.(I much prefer the look and layout of the older PSR 1000/2000 boards.

5) I am waiting for a new Korg to come out. It just needs to be a PA 800 with better Synth leads and Pads as well as dedicated Style Part mute/solo buttons. The touch screen just wasn't quick and accurate enough to mute and un-mute style parts while performing live.

I am also hoping that more 61 key arrangers do not have built in speakers!

why is the Tyros the ONLY mid to high end 61 note arranger that doesn't have speakers built in? There should be more!!
There is the exception of the Roland Prelude and the GW8 but hoping for more from either korg and yamaha

If an S910 successor comes out - for me to buy it it MUST have a better keybed and please lose the rubber buttons!! although they do the job nicely, it just makes it look and feel like a toy!

Some dedicated assignable knobs and faders on an arranger would be great as well

Nick

Hi Scott,

The PA has a fair number of jazz styles. I think you'd be disappointed though. The useful ones are terrific in their design and some talented style makers show their stuff. But I would say that this genre is the least impressive in the style dept.

Many have picked apart the PA so-called style glitches. This is so unfair. There are just a FEW bad ones (mostly in this genre), but overall, the other ones are, IMO, unparalleled for creativity and beauty.

The more years I have this board, the more new styles I try out. And man did I underestimate some of these. You just find creative ways to use them. They ARE ALL DIFFERENT - this is the big difference!

You, of all people, should get your hands on a PA for a month and I know you would go nuts on the complexity of this outstanding sounding board.

As soon as I get my Q3HD, I'll be posting some live playing on my YT account again.

I have to disagree with Nick on the touch screen. Mine is lightening fast and I would never go back to non touch.

Good luck.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=248446&sid=0237f7f1e9f2da47958a5c067db23a15

1) What music genre do you enjoy playing most/least?

I love playing R&B the most...don't play a lot of ballroom stuff.

2) Which arranger(s) make/model do you currently own/play?

I'm using a Yamaha PSR-S910 for personal gigs.

3) Does it (they) continue to satisfy your music production/performance needs and desires?

Yep...if it was the last arranger they made, I'd be happy, however, I am always open to new things.

4)What are the things you like most and least about your current arranger setup?

I love the sound, styles, light weight, on-board speakers, third party support.

I would like the DSP Variation buttons to be on the left...they are awkward placed on the right, so I usually use a foot-switch.

5) Which arranger keyboard(s) (both currently available & soon to be released) are you interested in possibly upgrading to. Which attributes about them appeal to you, and which (if any) possible negative attributes about them concern you?

I'm seriously considering the Tyros4, but I won't know where I stand until I play it.


Ian

Zuki: Thanks for your candidly informative input. I was able to play the Korg PA800 at Namm and also discovered 'no glitches' when switching between variations/fills in a style.

Because I suspect Yamaha may not have a Tyros4 OS update fix out until then away, I'll probably wait to see what the next gen Korg arr brings (Jan/Feb?). It would be great if Korg includes new impressive jazz swing/brush drum styles on their upcoming new arr models (suitable for playing acoustic jazz standards). Regarding Touch screens: I like that idea, but only if they can be viewed/navigated in bright/outdoor light. I hope the next gen Korg arrangers will implement the type of touch screen technology used on the Applie iPad because in addition to a capacitive type touch, the screen's bright and easily viewable, even outdoors. - Scott

Hi Ian: I've got a similar beef with Tyros3 and Tyros4 REG buttons (1-8) placement. On Tyros 1 and 2, they're conveniently located directly below the LCD screen for quick access (no reaching) with either (available) hand. However, on Tyros3 & 4, they're situated far over to the right, making it impractical to access with the left hand while performing, though I suppose, as you do with DSP variations on your S910, you can assign them to a foot controller. - Scott

PA800 is very bad here

Pa2x Jazz Style...
http://www.korgpa.com/pa_root/mp3/pa2x/Full_Songs/05_Piano_Trio.mp3
http://www.korgpa.com/pa_root/mp3/pa2x/Styles/14_Smooth_Jazz.mp3

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 11-14-2010).]

Hi,

My 2cents:

1. Rock, Ballads, Country - all used for Gospel outreaches.

2. PSR-3K

3. Extremely good value for money paid!

4. Most: The number of 3rd party styles available.
Least: Not being able to record direct to usb/arranger.

5. Tyros 4 (Great overall!)
PSR-S920 (Best value for money)
Audya 5 (Great wave samples that supplement allready great styles)

Henni

[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 11-14-2010).]

Dnj: Thanks for posting that great link.

Hello Scott
Here my answers:
1-My repertoire is basically Modern Brasilian Music, Bossa Nova,Jazz, Ballads, Latin (Boleros, Rumba, Cha Cha Cha, Mambo, Salsa, Tango) and my own music.
2-Psr 910 that is for me the biggest bang for buck in the arrangers market and Roland Alpha 1 (which I only use the scat voices).
3-I am fully satisfied with my current setup. This setup is sufficient for my humble music.
4-910-Quality of voices and styles, ease of navigation, high quality wave recording, weight.
I have no complaints.
Alpha 1- Great Scat voices
Outdated and confused OS.
5-Currently I do not think of buying anything. I will await the new version of 900 Series.
Regards from Brazil
Chico

Hello Scott,

What a great question!
__________________________________________
1) What music genre do you enjoy playing most/least? I enjoy playing just about all the styles on the arranger. As far as performing in public, I mainly do Latin dance (salsa,cumbia, mergergue, cha-cha-cha, regaeton, bachata) and current Spanish language popular music which often is not "Latin" oriented so I need to have good rock, country, R&B styles too. Sometimes I do jazz standards and lots of bossanovas.

2) Which arranger(s) make/model do you currently own/play?

Tyros 2

3) Does it (they) continue to satisfy your music production/performance needs and desires?

I need some more current Latin rythms which I'm very surprised that I haven't been able to find: raggaeton and modern bachata. Also it would be nice to have a few more merengues.

4)What are the things you like most and least about your current arranger setup?

Things I like most: RH sounds are overall nice- piano isn't great though... .

Things I like least: lacks certain styles that I mentioned. I hate to have to buy a whole new keyboard just to get a few styles.

VH doesn't sound good at all to me. I'd be embarassed to use it in public.

Also, my backgound is as a jazz combo type pianist. My Tyros doesn't seem to understand a lot of my chords. It was acually hard for me to go back to playing regular chords with roots. I got the hang of it now, but I'd like to play some jazz in the full keyboard mode but the Tyros doesn't understand my many of rootless voicings.

5) Which arranger keyboard(s) (both currently available & soon to be released) are you interested in possibly upgrading to. Which attributes about them appeal to you, and which (if any) possible negative attributes about them concern you?

The Audya- love the live sound of the drums/perc. Great especially for salsa, merengue, cha cha cha, but I have not heard a mordern/Mexican sounding cumbia ( which I do a lot of) or other Mexican styles.

I'm hoping Korg will surprise me. But at the same time I don't like having buy a new keyboard just to get a few styles.




[This message has been edited by montunoman (edited 11-15-2010).]

1) What music genre do you enjoy playing most/least?
MOST:Oldies 50's, 60's LEAST:Jazz]

2) Which arranger(s) make/model do you currently own/play?
PSR-3000 KN-7000

3) Does it (they) continue to satisfy your music production/performance needs and desires?
Most of the time, sometimes bored

4)What are the things you like most and least about your current arranger setup?
PSR-3000 MOST: Easy OS and tons of available styles. LEAST: No direct live recording to wave.
7000 MOST: Organ and scat voices LEAST: Mic harmonizer, and Technics has been long gone

5) Which arranger keyboard(s) (both currently available & soon to be released) are you interested in possibly upgrading to. Which attributes about them appeal to you, and which (if any) possible negative attributes about them concern you?
T-4: Positive: Seems like a complete board. Negative: Expensive

Larry