http://www.youtube.com/user/petrygilles#p/u/3/crr-G87Lhq4

This is what i mean about the choir voices sounding unrealistic . To me yamaha just wasted memory space on this.

Well that's just painful.

Ouch...that is sheer awfulness.

Ian

It sounds as if the modulation wheel was turned up too much, and there was too much reverb added. I've heard the sounds without adding effects and they actually sound pretty good. I believe much of the problem has to be with the way the song was set up by the player.

Thanks for the link,

Gary

Yes, the sounds I've heard (until this one) are very nice...obviously a poor setup, for sure (but still awful).

I must say, the style is really good.

Ian

He is playing a Midi File not a Style. He selected those Tyros choir voices and set them too loud probably. I like the song.

Ian, I don't believe he is playing a style..it is a commercial standard midi file..and he selected some poor voices..Yamaha isn't the strongest in SMF play to start with...and this is just poorer..

Yes, you're right, it is probably a midi file, and it was set up poorly.

I've never had any issues with accurate playing midi files on a Tyros or a PSR...some people just can't use the instruments properly...same goes for a G-70 (I've heard some SMF that you've put up that were less than stellar), or a Korg PA.

It's usually not the fault of the instrument in most cases.

Ian

I just downloaded the Tyros 4 Data List and it shows 83 voices under the Choir Group. I'll take a guess and say he picked this one:

Voice Name Number Type
GospelWow 8 33 55 S.Articulation!


-mike

Forget the voices. What about the player. I truly believe some people have no idea what they sound like. This guy has the rhythmic soul of a cheap plastic metronome. Why he'd want to plaster himself all over Youtube is beyond me. I guess that's the problem I have with arranger keyboards and SMF. Take a perfectly good arrangement and then a no-talent amateur puts this godawful lead/melody/head on it, complete with a horrible choice of backing voices because he has no concept of what does and does not sound good. What's worse, some of these people actually go out and gig. Yeeeccccchhh.

chas

Just a bad selection of voice.

This is better...
http://www.youtube.com/user/petrygilles#p/u/14/P_WFBX7zWSQ

I kind of like this too...same guy
http://www.youtube.com/user/petrygilles#p/u/0/21x3goxAUVo

And...ths is a nice style...
http://www.youtube.com/user/petrygilles#p/u/59/feuZPJlBtmQ

Lee S.

It hurts when I listen to it, please make the voices stop!!!

all kidding aside, I haven't anything on the tryos that would make me want to shell out $5000.

A bit OT here...............

Ditto to your comment I would never spend $5000 on a Tyros, maybe for a nice grand piano or possibly B3. Not for an arranger. But I'm betting if you shopped around you could buy one for considerably less than $4000.......and I mean quite a bit less. Well at least if your in the states.

Well I have to agree with Diki on this one. I think his response to this thread says a lot.

------------------
TTG

Diki?

Leeboy,

Thanks for the links. I've seen the vocoder demo a few weeks ago, but the other two are new.

Thanks again,

Gary

Gary,
Your welcome.

Actually if you listen to all his demos...it is a damm good demo of the T4 and PSRS910.
Better than the Martin Harris stuff....

It sounds pretty darn good to me!!

Lee S.

I wouln't spend $5000 on any arranger either, especially when mid range models like the S910, or PA-500 (or the late E-50) offer as much as top line models did only a few years ago, at a fraction of the price.

No problem at all to do a gig, or make a nice Cd with any of the current mid range instruments.

I'll know when I play the Tyros4 for a week or so, if it is going to be my own personal arranger...as of now, the S910 does the job admirably.

$5000 is a lot of money.

Ian

LOL - see you have some spunk

I try to model my life after my hero.......Diki .


chas

I'm sorry to keep on off-topic but I think it’s a little bit wrong to blame guys who gig using a lot of auto-accompaniment functions since mostly there’re guys who gig using nothing but a laptop and a pair of speakers.

actually the guy can play well enough but thats not why i posted the demo so lets just leave his playing skills alone. I was just providing an example that shows how the choir voices on the T4 could become annoying in a very short space in time .And that goes for all choir voices. You have to play them within a certain range for them to even sound human.

Chas,
You got to be kidding...I think your wrong about him.
Go back and listen to all his songs.
IMHO, he is a pretty darn good player.

Actually a damm good player.
Lee S.

$5,000 for a Tyros4? No way..try $3,300.
About the same as aT3 was/is.
You guys need to shop around.

Come on Ian...you get a great price (Employee) Probably sligtly over cost.
Lee S.

Hey, if you enjoyed him, that's all that matters. To me, he plays very mechanical; what synchopation there is seems forced (not natural). I don't want to take this further off course so let's just say, whatever turns you on.

chas

chas

I just spent a few hours playing a T4. The vocal patches are excellent!! Can they be overused ... absolutely!! All the sounds are first rate.
It is an excellent arranger KB in the hands of a competent player. I love the styles!! Especially the Swing/Jazz and Ballads.




[This message has been edited by JCkeeys (edited 11-19-2010).]

So John have you sold your PA2xPro yet?

Have not sold it yet Steve!! I'm getting close!

Hi John, if possible, please explain how the Tyros4 Swing/Jazz & Ballads styles differ from the Swing/Jazz styles on the Korg PA2Xpro?

Which of these two keyboards do you think is best suited for playing jazz piano standards with a small jazz combo rhythm style backing (bass + drums)? Also which keyboard has the best acoustic piano sound for this type of music? Thanks. - Scott

Scott
I like the piano "Sound' on the Pa better than the T4 but the T4 is acceptable. The biggest problem for me with the PA is lack of available styles. Also, the existing styles are very good with some exceptions. The exceptions are those that are too "Busy". I like the simplicity of the Yamaha styles. I do not care for a style that has a "Color" part. A flute or whatever that comes in every now an again. Many styles on the Korg have this. To some this is a plus to me it is a minus.
I know the "Live" issue has been discussed many many times. Is live better?? IMO not necessarily!
To answer your question I think the T4 gives you more options. Now if you feel comfortable with limited style options than I guess it does not matter.
For me, I want the option of using many styles and the Yamaha gives me that option. The support of the Tyros is not equaled by other brands, as you know.
IMO those Yamaha folks that are attracted to the "Live" sound of the Ketron and the Korg will soon get tired and frustrated with the the lack of support and return to Yamaha. Just one mans opinion!!
The musicality of the Yamaha styles are just easier to play with, again, IMO.

John, coming from someone who appears to enjoy playing similar repertoire as myself, I have especially appreciated your candid personal assessment. Thanks. - Scott

I have played for more then 10 years only on Yamaha keyboards and synths. Now I play for almost a year on a Korg PA 500 and I never want to go back to Yamaha again. Why? Because I find the sounds and styles much better on the Korg. I don't know which styles of the Korg you find busy but there is a mute button for each style part. And the support of Korg is very good if you know where to look. I mentioned before that Korg germany gives you 4 free styles every month and you can download hundreds of styles from their site. My Korg will never get bored because everything is editable. I can make him sound live or sound like a CD. It is just a matter of programming.

Fran You only get support from Korg Germany if you purchased your KB from Korg Germany. Here in the USA Korg does Zero for arranger KB's. I never said Korg styles were "Bad" just busy. That's not to say they are less useable than a Tyros. It is all a matter of preference. You like vanilla and I like chocolate. No right no wrong!

Like I said you have to look further. On the forum http://www.createsongstyles.com/forum/ you can download all the styles from Korg Germany and a lot more. They only ask a one time fee to keep the forum alive.

I'm sure both the PAX & Tyros have a lot to offer, but for better style comparison, I'd love to hear 'more songs' recorded on the Korg PA2X/Korg PA800 and/or Yamaha Tyros 2,3,or 4, to showcase the RANGE of 'small jazz combo type' styles (both factory & 3rd party) available for each keyboard. Song links appreciated. - Scott

I don't know how editable styles are on Yamaha, but with Korg you can 'busy' or 'un-busy' as much as you want. Very, very flexible in all ways. It all comes down to how much one is willing to get into their board, I guess.

OK so for 'small jazz combo type' you prefer the Korg (I have the PA2XPRO, but am thinking of a change)) but what about ballads, 60's Motown, musical theatre, show tunes, love songs, big band, old standards AND espeially ORCHESTRAL SOUNDS/STYLES etc?
Thanks,
Lee S.

[This message has been edited by leeboy (edited 11-21-2010).]

NAMM is right around the corner guys and gals. The Tyros4 seems to be full of bugs and with "4" current bugs (and counting??) it may prove wise to hold off on getting a T4 until Yamaha comes out with an OS update to fix these anomalies. In the meantime, NAMM and/or Musikmesse may turn out to be very productive in the way of top of the line arrangers. Korg is rumored to be releasing a PA2XPRO successor very soon, possibly winter NAMM '11 or perhaps Frankfurt Musikmesse which takes place shortly thereafter.

Roland is up in the air as far as what we can expect from them though. It seems their keyboard production plans are in disarray because of lack of innovation on some of their newest keyboard products such as the GW-8, etc. One glimmer of hope is the fact Roland removed the G70 product info from its website which may portend to a new totl arranger from them soon. Either that or their sales on the G70 have collapsed and further production would not make good business sense so they simply decided to discontinue it. If that's the case Roland may have decided to get out of the arranger market altogether. Time will tell.

If Korg comes through with an amazing technology breakthrough product (and bug free to boot) and doesn't charge an arm and leg (breaking the bank) like the Yamaha Tyros4 and/or the Ketron Audya has succeeded in doing, then Korg should be able to benefit tremendously market share wise from such a product. More power to them. And with Tyros4 and Audya bugs plaguing both boards currently it has opened a window for Korg and/or Roland to capitalize on these turn of events in their favor. We'll find out soon enough I reckon.

All the best,
Mike



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 11-21-2010).]

FransN and 124
I am very familiar with the workings of the PA2x and the Creatsongstyles website. I have most of those styles. They are not at the same "Quality Level" as the internal and the Korg Italy styles IMO.

Leeboy I do not agree the PA is better for Jazz/Swing styles. As far as all the other musical types you asked about .... Well that's where the Yamaha works better style wise for me.

Once again this is not a "One is better than the other" comment. It is a "Better for me “

I gotta agree with JC Keys on this on. I'm a former Pa2xPro owner it was a great board. For the type of music I play and for my audiences Yamaha works best. It's a better for me not anyone else.

There are a number of features I miss not owning a Korg Pa2xpro Songbook, better key feel and being able to get the leslie effect by pressing harder on the keys. Some late nights when I played thru my headphones and a style ended with a cymbal in the background I'd have to turn around and make sure that I was alone and that a drummer wasn't in the room.

Bottom line as has been mentioned time and time again, the variety and number of styles for Yamaha is overwhelming. I never did like the 3rd party styles for the Korg as JC mentioned they just weren't the quality of the on board Korg styles. Now if that money tree was still in my backyard, I'd still own Pa2xPro, G70, Tyros4, my late acoustic grand piano and late Hammond B3.

Yes that's OK with me. Yamaha is better for you. What I don't understand is if you know how the Korg pa's works why you find the styles busy? Most of the styles I use I edit to my likes and lets be honest how many styles needs a person. I can make plenty of different styles just from one style.

FranzN,
But...what about song specific styles? I haven't found many on the Korg...but I think Yamaha and 3rd party Yamaha has lots??
Lee S.

I don't use many of these but you can buy them at d-o-o.de and find many of them on at http://www.createsongstyles.com/forum/ or http://home.planet.nl/~aeduin/downloadKorg.htm

Frans

Fran When I refer to styles (and I know I am being picky) there are very few in the last year created for the PA2x. Most are all Pa1x or older so they do not have a "Good" break fill or 3 ending. Why can't Korg Italy offer a couple styles a month for $$ like Yamaha?? Such a simple concept!! And offer styles that people will want in the USA!! Jazz, Rock and Pop.
The ONLY reason I am considering a change to Yamaha is style availabilty and support.
I really like my PA2x!!!
I will probably wait until the winter NAMM show to see what, if any, new arranger Korg introduces before I make a move.

That's what I was getting at, the almost endless editing capabilities of a Korg. I don't know how Yamaha stack up in that department. FWIW, I'm not hugely interested in song-specific styles, too limiting.

John,
I'm in the EXACT same boat!
I hate to give up all the features/editing/song book/touch screen etc etc on the PA...but I'm also thinking of a change.

I'm reevaluating the music I play and which arrranger is best for that purpose!...not necessarily the best in genral.

If I were you I would wait....something great is coming from Korg (don't know when, but soon) How about 4 fills? Lots of DNC sounds, some new styles..etc.
However...If availablity of styles in general is a real big issue for you (and me)...Yamaha will be tops.

But, As some said here...how many great styles do you need?

I would like some song specific styles...because I'm less talented than some...I can do my own, but I would rather just play.

The Korg does allow lots of changes/tweeking with a great editing tool onboard.

And with all the bugs they are finding on T4???

Lee S.

Lee that's what I'm thinking .....

Unfortunately I do not have a lot of patience.

I know I would kick myself if Korg would introduce something awesome.

One of the main reasons I've stuck with Yamaha for so many years is the styles, many of which are very song specific. I don't look at them, however, as limiting, but instead, I view them as a wonderful way to expand what is already on the keyboard.

I have thousands upon thousands of song specific styles, styles that have the exact intro, fill, breaks and ending as the original songs. As soon as the audience hears the song specific intro they stop whatever they're doing, get out of their seats and onto the dancefloor. It's almost as if someone turns on some sort of magic switch.

When I had the Korg, G-800, Technics and several others I didn't have that vast assortment of third-party styles available. Consequently, I had to play the intro and ending to get remotely close to the song I was performing, which most of the time wasn't a problem. The problem arose when the main body of the style file kicks in and too many songs tended to sound alike.

Also with Yamaha, the technical support, at least here in the U.S., is rated quite high. And, last but not least, we have a lot of very generous individuals on forums such as this one that are willing to dive in and help when there is a problem that needs solving.

Cheers,

Gary

I'm a longtime Yamaha arr keyboard fan (PSR2000, Tyros1, Tyros2), but now find myself sitting on the fence between upgrading to Tyros4 or instead, waiting to see what the next Korg (PA3X?)arranger brings (1st Quarter 2011?)

I've auditioned the PA2X Pro and was very impressed with its realistically LIVE sound, compared to Tyros2's polished CD sound approach, but because emulating a small piano combo an important ingredient to my arr kb playing needs, I'm not convinced (yet) whether Korg's got enough impressive sounding small jazz combo swing styles to fit the bill. That said, anybody have more links to Korg PA produced songs utilizing small swing jazz combo styles?

I also appreciate Tyros4's new sound improvement (esp drums) & improved vocal harmonizer, but remain disappointed Yamaha didn't improve the MusicFinder to include linking to & calling up User Reg settings. That said, I'm not willing to upgrade to a Tyros4 until Yamaha releases an OS update which corrects the problem of not being able to save an edited style.

For now, until something or someone can convince me otherwise, I'm sticking with what I got: Tyros2.