HEY! Watch that older stuff--I resemble that remark. UD may not like the S910, but there are a lot of performers using this keyboard every day and night. I'm fortunate in that I get to see and hear them on a regular basis and believe me these guys know how to make that keyboard rock.

As for the vocal processor, most have done what DonM and myself have done--pair it up with the TC Helicon Harmony-M. It's a fantastic combination and you get the best of both worlds. Yamaha's onboard vocal processor is actually very, very good, it can be readily tuned to fit any voice and the vocal quality it produces is outstanding. And, as stated, the slight delay is a pain in the a$$. Therefore, the combination of the TC, it's effects and excellent vocal harmony processor, produce incredible vocals.

Now to the kids. Put a guitar in a youngster's hands and he or she is a happy camper. They're just as happy with an I-pod, and any other hand-held electronic device. An arranger keyboard,or synth, on the other hand requires an enormous amount of work to learn the entire operating system, which IMO, is essential to making that arranger keyboard sound great instead of mediocre. The youngsters, at least most of them, are not willing to put forth that kind of effort. Especially not in this world of instant gratification, texting, sexting, blue-tooth, etc...

Dave, send me the S910 and I'll trade you even up my spare, new-condition, PSR-3000. I'll use the S-910 for a spare--just in case my aging PSR-3000 happens to take a dive.

Merry Christmas old friend,

Gary

Hi Ian,

Yes I like the European version of the GW8 better then the latin version and is a good companion to the PA 500 because of the very good synth lead sounds of the Roland. I really missed these sounds. I haven't compare the Roland and the Korg side by side yet because the joystick of the Korg is broken and is back to the dealer for repair. I must say of all the years I played Yamaha I never had any problems like this. I hope Roland continue making instruments like the GW8 but I am not sure.

Hi Ian.



But does that not just make my point even more relevant as none of the kids keyboards from Yamaha come with styles suitable for the actual music they listen to?.



I'm a bit like that myself but the problem still remains. Even if the kids stick with the same brand, will it be a Tyros or a Motif they will want when they advance? What is there in a Tyros right now that even comes close to what the kids listen to?



I fear there is more to this. Yamaha have zero interest in making a top end arranger for the younger generation, and KORG are trying to please everyone all at the same time.

Both are not ideal solutions but at least there's a future for what KORG are doing.

Regards
James

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 12-24-2010).]

Ah well, Jim, I don't think we're going to quite agree on this.

Think of it this way...how many kids are going to buy a $5000 arranger?

How many kids want to be a one-man-band arranger player?

The people with the most disposable income are the over 40-50 crowd...they have the time and the money for their hobby, which will be a mid-line, or more likely, a top line, arranger.

I rarely see anyone under 40 yrs at arranger demos, whether they be Yamaha or whatever.

20 years ago, the age group that were interested, were the same...40-50 years old.

20 yerars from now, it will still be 40-50 year olds...just those with different tastes in music.

As the new 40-50 year old replace the first bunch, the arrangers will have styles (and features) to suit their musical taste...styles are the easiest thing to change nowadays.

Korg is trying for a different user, one who may want more editing power...that's okay, as these users need to be accommodated as well.

It's like automobiles...some want an automatic, and some want to shift for themselves, although perhaps cars may not be the best example, as dual clutch automated manuals will soon become the norm in the quest for fuel efficency.

I see a good future for the arranger...remember, 20 years ago we sold higher end arrangers to roughly the same age group...arrangers will not die out like the organs did years ago...arrangers are more affordable, portable, easier to play, and programmable.

Plus, today, we have the Internet, and much more contact between arranger users.

Ian


[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 12-24-2010).]

Hi Ian.



I don't think we are miles apart at all.



If I take that question and simply remove the price.....

*How many kids are going to buy a arranger?*

Now it's more in line with what I'm trying to get at. The price has really nothing to do with it. If the user starts out with a Yamaha toy arranger and then grows, they are highly unlikely to buy a Tyros these days simply because they offer zero content that's relevant to the music they listen to. Their function is far behind that of workstations too.

Ultimately Yamaha's undoing it's own market and it's own business by not advancing arrangers or providing them with relevant content to draw in and keep hold of new users.



It's important to break that down though. Out of all the arrangers on the market I think we can all agree that KORG's are the most technically advanced in that they come with full samplers, very deep sound engines, are fully programmable, and the midi implementation allows users to fully integrate their arranger with a DAW or any other midi device.

Now does that sound anything like the age group Yamaha are aiming the Tyros at?



Not sure how the logic applies to keybaords here.



Sadly that still doesn't change a single thing though. What kid growing up wants to play a good polka or a quick step?

Regards
James

Dave, because I LOVE you man, I will trade my Roland E50 for the S910. I'll even throw in a bag. NOT my wife, a keyboard bag.
DonM

Well, considering I've been with the company for almost 30 years, I respectfully can't agree with that statement at all.

You are looking at it from the perspective of a self admitted non-arranger user.

Are 40-50 year olds going to suddenly die off, or will people jump immediately from 39 to 60?

Today' kids will be 40 some day; today's 30-something's will be there sooner...when they get there, you can bet there will be a Yamaha arranger to suit their musical taste...will they play polkas? Who knows? I never thought I would be playing music from the 40's, but I do.

New arranger users start at the same age...around 40...so, relative content, is, well, only relative.

Ian

Hi Ian.



You of all people then should be very well aware of what's going on around you and what's already transpired.

Ketron is struggling, Roland have seriously backed way off, Technics have gone out of business, GEM have gone out of business, and WERSI have gone out of business.

Do you really not see a trend in all that?

Regards
James

One, two, Cha, cha cha

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-24-2010).]

Roland and Technics are out of it for reasons other than an alleged downturn of mid and high end arranger sales, so it really leaves only GEM and Wersi, neither of which were on steady ground for any long stretches of time due to internal issues.

Sites like PSR Tutorial, and YPKO are always gaining new members, as I am sure Korg is as well.

My numbers were up again this year...that's a trend of which I am well aware.

Ian