Just wondering if anyone can give me a few tips on learning chords on my KN7000. I am aware how chords are constructed and can play any chord on the keyboard. What I'm looking for is a practical application i.e. what position and what inversion to play certain chords to stop my hand from jumping up and down the section to the left of the split point, is there a 'rule of thumb' that can be followed.

Also I have been using the 'Complete Keyboard Player Picture Chord' book as a guide to chord fingering and there seems to be a difference from its fingering guide to what the KN7000 plays. As an example, the book says to play an F6 use notes (left to right) A C D F but the KN7000 plays this as a Dm7. Using the KN7000 'Chord Finder' it shows F A C D. In other words some chord inversions play different chords on the KN7000 ?

Glen

Why make such hard work of it when you can use basic chord mode and get on with producing a much better melody with your right hand...just a thought.
Rog

Hi Glen,

Actually F6 and Dm7 are same chords as they sound the same just like say, C6 and Am7 because they use the same notes. Any major sixth chord has it's correspondant minor seventh. This is one particular thing about chords.

Here's another one...

Cdim = Ebdim = F#dim = Adim using C Eb F# and A notes and their inversions.

Inversions are quite useful when playing left handed chords so can you make the less possible movements with your fingers. Many times you only have to change one or two fingers to go from one chord to another. You'll have to experience by yourself and the KN7000 can help you a lot by showing on the screen the name of the chord your're playing.

Hope this help

Serge

Having played so many years at the organ, I tend to finger chords in the way Serge has said. It's easy to change chords with minimal hand movement. But, if you are using APC, the bass note that results may or may not be what you expected. It still sounds OK to me though. Listen to a diminished chord with different fingerings with APC. You will readily notice that the bass line depends on the inversion that you use.

Roger, I have never used the basic mode. Can you play a major seventh in that mode? Or a 7-5 chord?

Hi Bob
One of the unique things about the KN7000 is that you can set it to basic and yet still play three finger chords, but yes major 7ths are easy on basic.
Rog

You're right Roger. Most of my chord fingering includes 4 notes but I just played a song in basic mode and didn't notice any difference in chord recognition. Can’t figure out though, why I would want to do it . . .

Gentlemen

Many thanks for your comments.

I usually play any three note chords as Serge suggested with inversions to minimise hand movement, but I struggle when it comes to four note chords. I realise I could use the basic mode but feel I would learn more about chords if I wanted to play without the APC on.

I didn't realise the F6 and Dm7 are basically the same chord, you learn something every day

Perhaps I should go through various fake books just playing the chords and humming (terrible singer) the melody until I become more familiar with inversions.

Thanks again

Glen

To fully appreciate the difference in bass lines, and therefore the 'sounds' of a style, just pick a style - one I tried was 'Bossanova' - and mute all but the bass accompaniment ... play CM, then slide up to Dmin7 (DFAC) then Emin7 (EGBD), then F6 (FACD) ... there will be a noticeable difference between the Dm7 bass line and the F6 bass line ... you can also just play the Dm7 and then the F6 to make it simple ...
When playing with the "On bass" option, you can get nice voicings for certain songs, for example "This Masquerade" by George Benson ... when using the 'On Bass', the bass note will be the leftmost note you are playing in the chord - starting with the Cm (C Eb G) and then playing a CmM7 (B C Eb G), then Cm7 (Bb C Eb G), then playing Cm/A (A C Eb G), (this chord shows on the screen as an Amb5) - then playing the AbM chord (Ab C Eb) produces a nice descending bass line for the tune ...
This may take some getting used to, but it does add a nice 'flavor' to the tune ...
Hope this didn't confuse the issue ...

Good points, Tony. That's what separates the Pro from the hobbyist. I'm still a hobbyist . . . You need to trade that KN6000 for a KN7000.

Bob - you wouldn't want to do it - play in basic set-up, that is - but it's a useful way for beginners to get into producing a reasonable version of a song quickly as most beginners struggle to find their 3 finger chords let alone those that need four fingers.
Many's the time I have listened to junior players hanging on the melody note way past the four beats of the bar whilst their memory hunts for the chord for the left hand...and it must be frustrating for them too...and that is probably why lots of expensive keyboards end up in the loft or under the bed!!!

Hi Glen,

Ever tried the Chord Step recording solution? Il you're more a pianist then organist like me and like to have a moving left hand instead of almost static, or if you want to practice your chord inversions in a song without bothering to snap in the right chord at the right moment, try it. No more split point, and you can play freely with both hands across the keyboard while the band is accompanying you in the background.

Serge

Those are valid points, Roger. I guess it depends on their objective. If they really want to play well and progress, they should force themselves to "do it right" at the beginning even if it means a lousy right hand. And, you are right, until the left hand gets almost automatic, the right hand will suffer. But, if they just want to make music right away with no future objective in mind, one finger chords will do just fine.

Gotta jump in "hear".... BOB.... The reason I and maybe others play only 3 finger chords is.... I never learned to read the bass clef or use my left hand!

Never had lessons.... Taught myself to play treble cleff at about 10 years old.... Never played piano... just a 12 bass accordion, guitar, autoharp, and harmonica. In the early '90's (that is 1990's) I learned that it is possible to play an electronic piano keyboard bass with 1, 2, or 3 fingers! I knew I could do that!!! Found a KN1000 in a pawn shop in Colorado Springs and a lady who already had one to teach me how to work with it....

I have never claimed to be a pro musician, never will. I do not like "labels"....I just play and sing up a storm and have found that my Nursing Home "peeps" are very appreciative.... So is my Clyde cat....

Playing music is great fun, and great therapy. I have no real interest in learning to read/play the bass clef although I can hear the difference....

HI Elizabeth, I have no issue with you on this. There is no need for reading bass clef in what I meant to convey. I thought I was comparing the use of a single finger on the C key to get a C chord as opposed to playing all three notes of the chord with the left hand. And, I have no issue with using three notes to get a chord that some play with four notes.

Great topic. – How to learn chords on a keyboard.
I played pro guitar for many years so when I turned to keyboard I tried to use the same method.
1-The most important chord is the I chord.
2-The second most is the V chord
3-The V chord going to the I chord is the most used
4-I like to add the IIm7 chord to my V chord
Example: I – IIm7 – V – I
In C major – C – Dm7 – G7 –C
I played these chords in one position as I did with guitar. Learn this chord progression starting with the I chord in root position. Keep in mind there are many common notes in the progression. Once you can play the progression without thought start the I chord in in the next inversion. Ex, CEG – EGC –GCE .
Once your hand has learned to make these moves you no longer have to concentrate, it just happens. This is one of the key points of playing without music.
Four note chords – My thinking. CMaj7 root position. Fingering 1 2 4 5. Move up one note Dm7 same fingering. Move another Em7, then FMa7, G7, Am7. All use the same fingering.
Many times when I have the I chord (C) for eight beats I play CMaj7, Dm7, Em7. Then back to the CMaj7.
All four note chords all the same fingering. This is a start.

Hope this helps, John C.

Bob.... No issue with you either.... I appreciate all the help you have provided....very much.... I just wish you would get an RV and come out here to NM and be my neighbor!!!

John C.....HUH? I still have no desire to learn to read the Bass clef....I am a happy camper using 3 finger chording. You are absolutely correct in your statement that the hand learns to make whatever the moves might be. I never have to look anywhere other than at the music....

Sometimes I look at all the smiley faces in my audience.... and some of my "peeps' are asleep too! Then there is one guy, named John, who hollers and pounds on the table! I know he likes the music because a few years ago he told me he plays harmonica... I told him to bring it and play along! He did....only challenge was that he played the same tune over and over and no one knew what he was playing! There was a drummer who set up his drums next to me and did the same thing John did.... I was able to just shut out the sounds he was making....then the drummer died.

I see new faces from time to time, They dance, they sing, they sleep, they smile and grab my hands and kiss, or pat....

If John wants to holler and pound the table, I am okay with that.
Every moment I am with them, playing for them, is a joy for me as well as for them....They don't care how or what I play....

So I am off topic! I do tend to ramble on.....

Elizabeth

Elizabeth, there are not many people who really find what is important in life. You are one of the few.

I'm too old to start RV'ing again . . .

There are some good points made by the instructor at this web site. Excellent ideas for determining chord progressions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXIEmMDwc7E&feature=related

BOB... Good link....However, she lost me after 5 mins....my eyes glazed over!

P.S. I too am too old to RV anymore.... though I am not too old to live in my moho! Just do not want to travel anymore than I want to learn to play chords with 4 fingers instead of 3!

Lot’s of good opinions here. Here is a different view – I use my left hand as an Organ player adding flavor to the song. My chords tell a story in themselves. Without the melody my left hand and my voice are fairly complete, that leaves my right hand to add more flavor. Using my left hand in this manner gives me the freedom to have a free hand to make changes. Learning four not chords is not much harder than learning three note chords if you start from the beginning. Because of my guitar background I love adding to a chord – I can’t imagine playing a “C” chord for eight beats without adding a Maj7 or a 6th or whatever.
When I use my right hand for melody I play against my left hand, it is very much like having a guitar player behind your melody. There times my left hand place with a pulse and times where I add some single notes. I come from the school that enjoys a challenge and understand we are not all the same.
John C.