How tasty this setup is. While modern keyboards are much more convenient I am not sure they would even come close to surpassing the sound quality. While emulation is nice it certainly isn't the real thing.

Hey, Nigel...thank you very kindly for your interest, and for posting this old picture.

As unreliable as the Polymoog (a 203A model) was when I first got it, a friend helped me upgrade the instrument so it rarely gave any issues, and it stayed in tune much better...it had a 71 note (E-D), velocity sensitive, semi weighted keyboard (one of the first synths to be so equipped) and it was fully polyphonic, meaning all the keys would sound...it was splittable three ways.

AND...no midi whatsoever on any of the keyboards...it was still a gleam in the eye of Dave Smith, of Sequential Circuits and Prophet 5 (among others)fame.

As the song says, "Those were the days, my friend...."

Ian

I can imagine how wonderful it sounded. Like I said emulation is very convenient but it aint the real thing.

Ian, very cool shot of you back in the day surrounded by that awesome classic keyboard collection.
Which ones do you still own and play, and which are your favs? Thanks for sharing that bud.

Good question Scott, I too am interested in which of these keyboards Ian still has ... if any cos it was so long ago.

Oh the memories (sigh) brings me back to my 60's rock days setups for sure. Arrangers weren't even thought of yet.

But then isn´t every musician trying to create his own sound, who wants to sound just like someone else?

Just compare the possibilities of a Kronos/laptop combination with the old 70's gear and you'know we went ahead in time and not backwards...

But then for Nostalgic reasons the foto is awesome, and it shows why they invented roadies in those days...

Hi Scott...the type of music I was playing with that particular group required all those instruments.

They were all being played through two Fender Twin Reverbs, with Celestion full range speakers (12") substituted for the originals.

I still had my Rhodes at the time, plus an old Hammond M-3 (with 147RV Leslie), but didn't use them in that group.

Of all the instruments in that picture, only the Roland SH-2000 has remained.

I replaced the Polymoog with a Roland Jupiter 8 (which I still have), the the Wurly (and the Rhodes) were eventually supplanted by a Yamaha DX-7 (and then a DX7II), none of which I have today.

What is amazing, is how many of those old classic sounds are recreated in the Tyros/PSR...certainly not as rich and variable, but without all the maintenance required on some of those earlier instruments.

The gear necessitated a big vehicle, back then it was a second-hand 1959 GMC V-8 Suburban with a big ol' 4-speed stick.

Also, moving it required a buddy to help out.

Nigel is right about those old instruments having a certain quality not found in emulations...especially the "experience" of playing on those older keyboard actions, and using those real time sliders and knobs.

Ian

.
.
.

Ian, my hat off, SALUT!

And today a simple KRONOS units would suffice

Perhaps a single Kronos would surely do the job...but I like having at least two keyboards when I'm gigging in a band.

Even if it was 88 keys and splittable, I would still prefer one with 88 weighted, and the other with 61 lightweight action keys.

Having two keyboards is just so much more flexible.

Having said that, the Kronos is an awesome instrument...probably one of the best workstations available, at least for now.

Ian

Ian, that shot brings back sweet (and, sadly-long ago) memories.

I still like to have two keyboards on the stand, and do that (or more) on all my house gigs.


GREAT SHOT, with the starbursts, by the way. That was sort of chancy with film. The shot looks like it was in real time and the starburst effect was created with a filter...that took some really artistic coordination.


Be well!


Russ

How on earth did you manage to play with those bottom keyboards around your knees, Ian?! Looks like it used to make you hunch over...

Russ, what I also miss is the ability to stack instruments...nothing today has a flat top, or a clean surface to let you set another keyboard on top.

It sure saved on dragging around the horrid A-Frame stands, that were prevalent back in the day, and things were quite stable.

I had my Rhodes modified with a flat top, that was available at the time.

The "Star-burst" effect was added to an old photo, using this site, which has all kinds of great effects.

Here is the link: http://www.tuxpi.com/


Ian

Great picture Ian. I actually miss the old days of being surrounded by stacks of keyboards. Granted it is far easier these days since pretty much any sound needed can be accomplished by a single or at the very most two keyboards. But I feel sorry for the newer keyboardists of today because they didn't get to experience what it was like to turn knobs and move sliders in order to program a synth for the next song on the set list, all while playing the song in progress. It was a lot more work, and WAY more satisfying.

Years ago I was in a band that covered Yes, King Crimson, Genesis, etc. and had quite a rig. In front of me was a Rhodes, which supported an ARP Odyssey on the left and a Minimoog on the right. To my left was a Mellotron with the standard tape set, above that was a Wurlitzer EP200 and on top a Korg Poly-Ensemble S. To my right was another Mellotron with the 1/4" tape conversion (I made my own custom tapes with a Tascam 2340 reel to reel deck). On top of that Mellotron was a Crumar T3 double manual organ and above that a Korg MaxiKorg synth. Behind me was a Hammond M3 running through two Leslie 145's. The other keyboards ran through two EV Voice of the Theater cabinets and Kustom radial horns. It took a Dodge stretch van and part of the band van just to haul my gear.

The keyboards of today are far more sophisticated and capable than the keyboards of the past. But there is absolutely nothing like the feeling you get when in the midst of a multiple keyboard setup and the knowledge that if you want a particular sound, you had better know how to program it on the spot because the words programmable and preset hadn't been invented yet.

WOW! I remember days like those--sure glad they're long ago, though. Lugging all that gear, making 8 to 10 trips to the van with a refrigerator dolly, speakers that weighed nearly as much as a refrigerator and were about the same size, keyboard stands that were assembled like Erector Sets, wires all over the place like someone dropped a large plate of black spaghetti, playing four hour gigs, then tearing it all down at 1 a.m. and crawling into bed at 3 a.m.. It was fun (I think). My how times have changed.

Thanks for the memories,

Gary

Donny,

Wonder if the KRONOS got the same blue LEDS as the PA2x, Heeeeee!

Dave, you would have needed your own stage.

The maximum keyboards I was using at one one point was six.

I had the Hammond B-3, the Jupiter 8 sitting on top, the Rhodes with the Roland SH-2000 on top, the Wurlitzer with a Minimoog on top.

The B-3 went through two Leslie 147RV, the Rhodes had it's own speakers, the SH-2000 went into a Fender Princeton (that was mic'd) and the Wurlitzer and Minimoog were in one of my two modified Fender Twins.

The darn organ was the monster, at over 400 lbs...four people to move it...it, the Leslies, and the Rhodes Suitcase (it was a Mark I)stayed with the PA and a few other things in a big storage shed...I took the Wurly home with me, as well as the Jupiter 8, the SH-2000 and the Minimoog.

Man, you made your own Mellotron tapes? Pretty cool. I've never owned a 'Tron, but I have played them quite a bit...a real special technique was needed due to the tape length and it's need to rewind.

Having your own tapes was quite a feat...you could then have your own completely customized sounds and sound mixtures?

I also remember seeing you demo an "ahead-of-it's time" digital piano/keyboard that used something called "DRAKE" technology.

Maybe it was by GEM? I seem to remember it was something like, Promega 3? Is that right?

I do remember the demonstration was done with complete professionalism, and you did an excellent job showcasing the instrument.

I appreciate a good demo, as that's what I've been doing for the past 25 years or so.

The Promega (?) was a fascinating and powerful instrument...ahhhh, here it is; I found it.

http://www.generalmusic.us/promega3.htm

Again, a fine job, Dave.

Ian

Hi Ian,

Ten keyboards may have been a little excessive, but the more the merrier I always say. Truly though, I made use of all of them. Like I mentioned above, there were many times when I was playing one of the analog synths while programming one of the others for the next song coming up. The floor space I ate up did limit the clubs we could play, so there were times when I would scale it down. But man it sure looked cool when everything was there.

The Mellotron was one of the neatest instruments I have ever owned. And as long as you maintained them properly, they were fairly trouble free. The biggest problem I had was tapes wearing out. Which is why I installed the 1/4" tape kit. Instead of the 3 head block positions of a stock Mellotron (standard tape set was Flute - Strings - Choir) the kit allowed for 4 positions which is why I used a Tascam 2340 7" reel deck which was a 4 track recorder. Recording the tapes was easy. The lengthy process was cutting the tape to length and spooling it and installing the spools into the tape frame.

Yes, that's me with the Promega 3. It was and still is an incredible instrument. Thanks for the kind words regarding the demo video.

Dave

Dave great stuff as usual love your demos.....I hear they NEED good KB demonstrators like yourself over at KORG ..
hey Dan O are you listening also?..

Ian, after seeing that pic...I now have more respect for you.....

I think my largest stage set up was 4 keyboards and 2 modules..mid 80's

You're only saying that because I was using two Roland's...

Seriously, the Jupiter 8 was a more powerful synth than the Polymoog, even though it was only 8 note polyphonic (4 in double mode) compared to the Polymoog's full 71 note polyphony.

I paid well over $6500 for the Polymoog (included the Polypedal unit) in the money of the day (mid 70's)...wonder what that would be in today's dollars?

I got lots of work with it, as it was really the only poly synth in the area...I did a lot of radio segues and "donuts" (music before and after an announcement) for the Canadian Brodcasting Corporation (CBC), and they paid pretty good money....I was lucky that I could read music very well, a perk from my many years of classical piano.

The Jupiter 8 is much more of a collector's item than the Polymoog, and also a very practical one...it sounds great and is very reliable.

Then again, my old Polymoog is still going strong...it's in a church (it had a terrific pipe organ sound) in Lunenburg Nova Scotia, and is played every Sunday.

The Roland SH-2000 was a great "live" mono synth, with an after-touch sensitive keyboard, and a bunch of presets that could be drastically modified (but not stored) by the panel controls. It was single oscillator with a sub-octave generator. I still have it.

Four keyboards are certainly enough...then again, Dave also indicates that it does look good to have stacks of them around you...it is also kind of showy, where you have to be moving from one to the other, and/or playing two at once...it becomes a sort of choreography for each tune you play.

I never used modules, or tone generators very much...the only ones I had were a Yamaha TX-81Z, and a Yamaha TQ-5...both were FM synths...I still have the latter.

I did use some arranger modules in later years...the Roland RA-50 and RA-90 I believe.

What modules did you use with your largest setup?

Ian

I agree Donny...Dave would make a great demonstrator for Korg...he's got the experience, personality, and the chops (arranger chops too!)...they sure need a good clinician/demonstrator like Dave.

Ian

Ian, the modules (rack) I used were also Yamaha..

I used the 81z as you did, and the 8 in 1 TX rack..I can't remember the model..I think it was a TX 802..

And not to forget the Yamaha RX120 drum machine and Roland TR707 unit too..

SH101 was my bass ...JX10 controlled the Yamaha's..and a pair of Alpha Juno 2's for color sounds..replaced the JX8p's (lighter)..

The JX 10 remained my favorite board for many years..


I tried the Rhodes and Hammond set ups....but after selling Hammond in the 60's..I didn't want to haul them anymore..

The multi keyboard era was great..I enjoyed the combinations..and was never totally brand oriented...I mixed them all..

I always thought it would be fun..to set up big set ups again...sure is far from necessary..but would look neat...

Imagine the rocket ship look of the MediaStation ..flanked by the G70, and a A-33 controller...and of course an accordion strapped on...

Hey, with that setup, you'd be bouncing the needle off the pin on the Cool-O-Meter...

The JX-10 was a lovely synth...it had what we would would call a "BIG" sound, yet full of richness and detail...warm strings, followed by sumptuous digital pianos, superseded by knife-edged Brass, acceded by warm Horns.

I liked the "chase-play" feature...very cool.

A friend in New Brunswick still has one...a very well made instrument...expensive switches and sliders...nothing cheap about it.

Ian

Yep, the JX-10 is a great synth. But although it should be identical to 2 X JX-8P ... for some reason I always enjoyed playing the JX-8P more using the same patches. Was it just my imagination? I have a JX-8P and at one time played it side by side with a JX-10 and kept going back to the JX-8P. I always loved that Soundtrack patch .... sheer heaven that I have never heard a digital synth come close to matching. I still have the JX-8P, plus a non working one that I have kept for parts in the future. It is my favorite synth. Plus I have the PG-800 controller.

I really think the Jupiter 8 was the greatest analog synth ever made. There was nothing else that could match it. I wish really I owned one now. It really is a classic instrument that marked the peak of analog synthesis before digital electronics moved in.

I sold the one I have several years ago, and by sheer luck, was able to buy it back at exactly the same price...it was in storage, and not being played, another stroke of luck.

Talk about fortune shining upon me.

I had a Prophet 5 here for a while...it was very nice, but the Jupiter 8 "out-warms" it by a good measure. Plus, the Prophet 5 was a tad buggy, and the parts for it, especially the J-wires that were part of the keyboard action, were easily broken (or worn) and it was hard to find replacements for them.

The Jupiter 8 uses some parts from the lesser synths, so it is easier to maintain...mine has MIDI installed, and upgrades to the auto-tune.

The JX-8P also looks as cool as it sounds....I like the design around the pitch bender, and the dedicated "touch sensitivity" slider on the panel...and yes, Soundtrack was one of the signature sounds, just like "Digital Native Dance" and "Living Calliope" were on the old Roland D-50, another great synth.

It is cool you have the PG-800 programmer...they are very scarce, and really make the instrument a joy to use.

Ian

I was very lucky to get it. Back in the mid 90s the broken JX-8P I have just stopped working one day. I was gonna spend the money to get it repaired when I saw a classified ad for a JX-8P with the PG-800 controller in Burbank CA for $150. That was at least what it was gonna cost me to get mine fixed ... so I just bought the working JX-8P with PG-800 and kept my broken one for spare parts. Just can't beat a deal like that.

Also the tuning of the oscillators on the Prophets just drove me crazy. They always went out of tune. I remember using one in a studio session but gave up on it. I ended up using a Roland Juno 6 instead because it was so much more stable. Also on another song in that session I tried using a Fairlight ... though despite the huge cost of them back then the 8 bit sampling left a lot to be desired. I ended up abandoning it as well and used an Oberheim OBX which was much more toneful for a bassline. This is the song that Colin Haye from "Men At Work" helped supply vocals on. Thanks so much Colin. http://synthzone.com/songs/nigel/TooManyPeople.mp3

That would be fun. Actually Rich Formidoni of Korg does a good job of presenting. I'm not sure if he has done anything on the PA series though. There are some videos of him demoing the Kronos and also the PS60 that are very good IMHO. But I would gladly take on the PA3X if asked.

In my view, there are several reasons for the lack of proper demo videos of some of the brands of arrangers. I think there may be a lack of interest from the distributor side to spend much time/money producing quality demos of the arranger instruments. This is likely based on the potential of low return on investment. But then again, I feel that if there was a change of tone and focus of demo videos the return could be greater. Instead of wasting time having someone press a button and then sit there for 8-16 bars while the intro or ending plays, the focus should be more on what the instrument is capable of in a professional setting. Granted a lot of potential owners want to hear the on-board styles, but those can be created by hiring a button pusher to record each intro, variation, fill and ending for every style and then place those recordings on the website as mp3's. Video time need not be wasted for that. There should be more emphasis on the sequencing abilities, sound editing and realtime control, etc. You know, just like what is done on the so-called workstation instruments. Then top it off with the live style capabilities.

Yamaha does a good job of offering good quality video demos of the Tyros. On the other hand and in my personal opinion, I would rather not be dazzled by a great player demonstrating his abilities but rather the abilities the instrument offers to a potential owner. "I hope that makes sense".

Dave

No love for the Oberheim Xa? I had a serious love affair with that one for quite a while, then on to the XPander (a lot more routing possibilities).

I also used a Yamaha SC80 in the studio (and toured with the lighter, less capable CS60) and found that far more amazing than the Polymoog. Somehow, I never felt quite right on that one...

I rather wish that things like the Kronos, instead of working on budget synth models like the Polysix, had a crack at things like Xa's, JP8's, or even, if they are stuck to having to use Korg models, the Trident and 01/W, for instance. I can't remember the last time I was in a studio, and said 'I think we need a bit of Polysix on this one'!

Nigel, have you tried the Arturia softsynth models for the Jupiter, or Moog's etc.? Not QUITE as good as the real thing, but better than most hardware emulations I've heard. so far, IMO.

I was working for Yamaha when the CS-80 came out, and having spent considerable time on both, the CS-60 wasn't in the same league...yes, it was lighter, but the oscillator power was not there, and the presets were pretty dismal, and really needed a lot of tweaking...and there was only one user memory. Having said that, it did have the really long velvet ribbon controller which was pretty cool for doing wild pitch bends and trills.

But, I found the sound a bit on the thin side, although it was still analog.

My Polymoog was one of the very first polyphonic synths available, which is why I bought it (it was the price of a real nice car)...everything on the market up to then was monophonic...the strings and brass were incredible (the Vox Humana was pure Gary Numan)...the pianos and other sounds, not so much.

Hindsight being 20-20 vision, I would have waited for the Jupiter 8, but, again, the Polymoog opened a lot of doors for me back then, so it managed to do the job.

Mine was the Polymoog 203A (1975), not the largely pre-set Polymoog Keyboard (model 280A) released in 1978, which was a dud, in my opinion.

I used to run various keyboards through the Polymoog's filters...pretty slick, and the Polypedal allowed for hands free filtering, pitch, modulation etc.

The Polymoog was another tool, and it depended very much on how the player dug into it.

After some modifications, mine was very stable and reliable...actually much better than the Memorymoog that followed it...plus, it had FULL polyphony.

Oberheim were a bit scarce here...a friend has a Matrix 12, and I occasionally noodle around on another buddy's old Four Voice, but the synth explosion really didn't really happen until the Yamaha DX-7, the Roland Juno-106, and Korg Polysix and/or Monopoly...the big old analogs were just too expensive for the average player.

I must say, I am very impressed with Korg's Kronos...what a terrific "live" AND studio instrument.

Ian

I sure look forward to trying a Kronos. Might be a while before it gets anywhere near to me in keyboard hell down here in the Panhandle, though!

Not sure I have a burning NEED for it, though... The combination of gear I already have covers the bases pretty well. For all its age, I play my G70 out and get nothing but 'Jeez, that sounds great!' from pros and audience alike, and studio, well, what my G70, Triton and K2500 can't handle, the VSTi's can...

Thing about the CS60 was, yes, it was thinner, and a VERY different keyboard than the CS80, but live, fat isn't always what you need. You can present a lot of challenge to a soundman taking huge chunks out of the spectrum with just ONE keyboard sound. Often, you can get louder in the mix and not get buried behind the guitars, by NOT competing with them for that mid low 'chunk' area of sound.

Anyway, who in their right minds wanted to tour with the CS80?! It weighed a TON and was a tuning nightmare. I only had to recalibrate my CS60's soundcards (one per voice!) about once a month. Had to do that for the CS80 every time you moved it!

I played the earlier kind of Polymoog in a studio in NY, but never felt that it was a TRUE polysynth. Felt more like a cross between an organ and a synth, what with only having the linked filter but full polyphony. Sort of a super string machine type thing. I guess I didn't play one until after the Prophet's and Oberheim's were out, and by that time it was a bit underwhelming.

Wouldn't mind a great condition MemoryMoog, though! Loved that one...

Well, the CS-80 was heavy (100 Kg), but not as heavy as B-3, and many of us toured with those...the CS-80's big advantages were the polyphonic aftertouch, the 8 voice poly, and, of course, more user locations.

Being the flagship of their new CS-series synthesizer line, the CS-80 represented Yamaha's attempt to cram as much of the GX1 into a single-manual keyboard as possible. I played the GX-1...that was a dandy!

Despite only having 12DB filters and only one osc per voice, the CS-60 managed to sound warmer and more meaty than the flashiest Roland etc, it had both low and high pass filtering with their own resonance controls and they combined to make a superb bandpass filter...

The bigger and even more powerful brother, the CS80, was used heavily by Vangelis and most of his sounds can be copied on the CS60 too.

The CS-80 was mainly a studio machine, and at twice the oscillator power of the CS-60 was capable of both fat sounds, or the thinner CS-60 sound by only using half the oscillators...a choice, in other words.

In later years, they (the CS-80 and CS-60/50) received many upgrades that improved reliability a lot...some are still being used.

Quite a few made it on tours, but the CS-80 usually accompanied the high dollar high profile players like Stevie Wonder, who could afford roadies and techies.

The Polymoog was a blessing to me, as there were no other poly's on the market, and having the first one really helped in getting a foot in the door at studios...yes, it was a superb string and brass synth...being able to access it's filter was another benefit...I ran all kinds of instruments through it, including electric guitars and basses.

I felt it was more of studio tool, and after playing the CS-60 and others, the Polymoog's strings and brass still had the edge by a long way, and, at that time, strings and brass were the most important sounds to emulate.

In the long run, these instrument can really only be measured by the player's imagination and creativity.

I feel very lucky to have had the experiences I did with all the vintage synths and other keyboards, especially having access to many rare Yamaha vintage synths...some people haven't had the chance to actually play them in context (or in a band), and to actually "feel" the instrument's response...a big part of the charm, and not available on VST's.

The Memorymoog (and Memorymoog+) was notoriously unreliable - 1/4 of the first batch was sent back to the manufacturer. There were several revisions fixing a majority of the problems (which included everything from unstable tuning to power supply flaws), but Moog Music went bankrupt before the Memorymoog became a "finished" product.

Later on, companies like Lintronics and Bob Moog's Big Briar released third party upgrades which included simple MIDI implementation among other things, but nobody uses a Memorymoog on stage...at least not willingly, and even the studio units fail at an alarming rate. Talk with a competent technician before you consider buying one second-hand.

It is considered one of the most troublesome piece of gear to tour with...the Prophet 5 wasn't far behind...it took the Japanese to make a reliable synthesizer...companies like Kurzweil, and the older Ensoniq had incredibly creative ideas and features, but weren't nearly as reliable (the Ensoniq had a 50% failure rate) as the Japanese instruments by Korg, Roland and Yamaha.

I like vintage synths...but, I like vintage synths that work...not much fun having something I can't play and enjoy...especially if it cost me a bundle.

Anyway, it's nice to look back, but even nicer to have all the goodies available today, at a fraction of the cost, no less.

Ian

My biggest setup was in the early 80s. I had a high power duo playing a steady thing at an after hours bar (2-5am)
I had my Rhodes in front of me with a Juno 106 racked above. Under the Juno was Moog Source for bass, next to a Korg rack module to layer with the Juno.
To my right was a D6 clav on it's own legs with a Roland Juno D (or something like that)on top. That was organs, the 106 was synths and brass ( well, as brass as it COULD be) - no sequences, no auto anything but a drum pattern from a Yamaha RX120 ..... As a solo or a duo, we were working the same rooms as 5 piece bands in the area, at the same pay scale too. It was a crazy time, but the after hours thing gave me extra money to pay for my new house I worked a restaurant from 9-1, then scooted to the after-hours place till dawn .... 13 weeks of that and I WAS FRIED!
6 separate keyboards, and a drum machine ..... I can do so much more today with just 1 piece, and I get stellar vocal harmonies too! Progress.

I loved that JX8p too, but man - SIX notes of polyphony?????? I know it was never supposed to be a grand piano, but as soon as I put two hands on it .. it would run out of notes! lol. Fran and I moved up to the JX10 and doubled our noteability to 12 .... whooooooo!

Ah, the good old days.

Jeff Downes, of Buggles and Asia fame, has us all beat...17 keyboards in this photo, including a Fairlight...he was also a Polymoog user.

Way to go, Jeff.

Jeff's Polymoog is just to his left in the photo...it's atop the Mellotron...the Polypedal unit, for the Polymoog, is under the Mellotron.

Man, it must have been some job for the roadies who set up and tore down that rig.

Ian

Six notes of polyphony wasn't bad, when the most popular synth of its' day was the Prophet 5!

Back then, you didn't expect one keyboard to do it all, you usually played one synth with one hand, another with the other. Five fingers, six notes... sounds like TOO much to me!