Here's a demo of the Tyros 4 Vocal Harmonizer.
Though I would have preferred Robbie to only utilize the vocal harmonizer at the chorus & only on specific phrase(s)/words,
I think he does a great job showcasing (both audibly & visually) how the Tyros 4 vocalizer performs.
This demos also highlights how the vocal backing style can enhance the lead singer's sound.

Its seems to be significantly better than the previous harmonizers...

There is something about it I don't care for...there's an effect or quality to it that strikes me as cold and sort of sterile sounding. The Digitechs (the older ones) seem to have a warmth about them that I prefer...

That said, until I actually lay hands on one, I'll reserve final judgement...

Thanks Scott nice find....Robbie put together a nice looking demo. Bill now that your on your own without the band anymore the T4 could only give you the edge over the T2 don't you think?.

My Tyros4, for my sample account, was ordered yesterday morning, and hopefully, if one is in stock, and Purolator Courier aren't battling any snow storms, I'll have it the end of the week, or at the latest, the beginning of next week.

Several owners have been commenting to me how much better the VH-2 is compared to the older one in the Tyros2/3...I'm really looking forward to putting the instrument through it's paces.

The vocal backing style really adds to the lead singer's sound...I agree that he should have used the harmonizer effect more judiciously. It did sound pretty darn good all the same.

I also run my Yamaha CS-01 analog mono synth through the vocal harmonizer for pseudo polyphony...the VH-2 should be even more effective.

Ian

Are you still considering a Tyros4, Donny, or does the S910 still do the job for you?

You use an outboard harmonizer, do you not?

What would be the advantage of having a Tyros4 if you already have great vocal harmony happening with the S910? Wouldn't the next generation S-series be enough for your needs?

I would think a Korg PA-3XPro would be a nice change for you, if you are getting tired of the Yamaha sound?

Have you completely given up on getting an Audya?

I know...so many questions!

But, I'm interested.

Ian

Here is another demo by MV:

Donnie-

There's certain elements of the T4 that I really love...the improved SA voices, especially the clarinet, the beefed up sound in general, the drums, etc...The on board VH I don't think will ever replace the external Digitechs, for me. But still, that's a pretty hefty price tag for an upgrade. I'm not a fan of the jazz voices-which I think are gimmicky and be something I'd rarely use...

I might be better off picking up a used T3...

We also want a new driveway and some landscaping around the year, which could be some pretty crazy cash. (My wife fancies this colored concrete driveway stuff? It looks incredible, but it ain't cheap, let's say...)

I think if I was unhappy with my T2 in some way, but I'm not...not whatsoever. The upgrade from the T1 to the T2 was imo, incredible. I have both boards and A/B-ing them is quite a contrast.

If only the various instrument sounds could be reverse compatable, I'd buy that new clarinet in a heartbeat, lol...

hi Bill , do you have a Digitech vh song recording you've made to give us the opportunity to compare?

As a vocalist I'd be very interested in comparing & hearing that also between the Digitech & T4 VH2.....

I think this hymn was recorded with the Digitech Access or VR, not sure which...I've had both a long time.

http://www.billcorfield.com/ITISWELL.wma

Everything else on my site has the Yammie harmonizer...

If I recall, I used two voices above my lead, my lead vocal was set at full volume (40), the harmony was set around 32-34 and I pull most of my reverb from my amp...

I used a "Slow Worship" style on my T2. Grand piano was my main instrument, strings were my second...Didn't use anything else. Recorded it in one pass...

Hadn't listened to that for a while. It was my Mom's favorite hymn and I think I recorded shortly after she died a few years back..

Enjoy...

ps-You may want to bump up your volume...the levels aren't that loud...

Nice job Bill on that song......well done.


I recorded this Duet song "Let It Be Me" in 2008 with two of my friends, A Female Vocalist & a Lead Guitarist, I'm playing a Tyros2 using the Power Ballad Style, w/Piano, String Pad, Brass pad, and for Vocal Harmony we used a Digitech VR rack unit, & multi tracking also enjoy.....


http://www.donnypesce.com/Let%20it%20Be%20Me.mp3

Bill, thanks for the link giving us the chance to compare the Digitech to the Tyros 4 VH2.
I think both sound very good.
I suspect the sound difference may have a lot more to do with what mic is used and EQ settings.

DNJ: Thanks for posting your 2008 father/daughter(?) duet. Very nice! Please share how you utilized the Digitech VH on that song.

Good singing Bill from Dayton!

I used my Sennheiser e-855...

Not sure it IS all about the mike, honestly. The thing about VH is, ideally, the harmonies should sound the SAME as whatever is put into them. Use a great mike, they should sound great, use an average mike, they should sound average, but what I hear with MOST VH units, to be frank, is that the original voice sounds good no matter what mike is used (to a certain extent), but the VH itself is what makes or breaks the harmonies.

If the main voice sounds good, but the harmonies suck, you can't lay that at the feet of the mike choice...

Scott, that is not Mandy..Donny used his England friends to record "let it be"..

BTW: I don't hear any harmonizer on this song..only the real overdub vocals..

Thanx everyone I have to remove it now to save bandwith hope to hear more from others too.

I think Robbie makes a great video. Nevertheless, I think that someone with a punchier voice and a higher range could make the vocalizer sound better.

Robbie has a nice voice, but high harmonies sound better than low harmonies, generally. Piano players play a lot more closed chords with their right hand. And the breathiness of his voice is more suitable for solo. It's a voice I would like to listen to, but not in harmony that much.

I think that, as Scott said, he would sound better using the harmonizer on phrases rather than the whole song.

And many times background harmonies are totally different then the lead vocals, making it impossible as a OMB live styler to sing both lead & back ground VH parts simultaneously.......on top of that the audience is confused enough seeing only one person and hearing a 10 piece band and all these singers rendering them only to conclude in their arranger deprived minds that it's all karaoke backing magic!! ....somtimes MORE is really LESS

I prefer to see an OMB that is using harmony, to stick with just a duet type harmony at the most, and the harmony voice mixed rather low, almost at a subliminal level.

AND, not to use it too often...it tends not to be so cool if it is on most of the time...it's supposed to enhance and support, rather than dominate.

For recording, the sky's the limit, but too many vocal parts "live" on stage seems bit overdone to me, and, as Donny says above, it's almost "Karaoke" like.

Now, this is basically my opinion only...others may love lots of harmonies and such.

Ian

Nice job, Bill ... unfortunately, I did not get to hear Donny's ...



But Donny's post said he used a Digitech VR rack unit ?!?!?

Tony we multi tracked the female VH's took those tracks & used the VR toward the end when the brass modulation comes in and sang the bottom bass notes to give it a foundation with male "DOUBLE" voices almost like a mixed choir.The VR I have used in many many ways it's a versatile unit with a great natural sound.

I might suggest not drenching the VH in reverb too... If it can't stack up pretty naked, it sure doesn't get any better at the bottom of a well!

I also have been noticing that todays Country Music Songs are really over using VH on the lead vocal voice on almost every song just too much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtnjlrJc8-o

It's cheaper. Music industry can't lose 40-60% of its' gross without SOME cutbacks!

Hmmmmmm again MONEY rears it's ugly head at the loss of the consumer

I thought the idea was to compare the T4 VH with the Digitech unit. I'm not critisizing but the above is hardly an 'apples to apples' comparison. Personally, I prefer the SOUND of the Roland VP-770 but I can see how these units would be way more suitable in a OMB situation.

chas

Chas I would love you do a demo of the Roland VP770 for us.
btw hows the profile pic coming along?....if you need help just shout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zswvv9r5SPI

Scott,
Tell me how to upload an audio file and I'll post an early version of "A Nightingale Sang" that was done on a VR.
UD

How to Upload an Audio File to SZ!

Hope this worked .... I recorded this live on a 9000pro - no arranger - left hand bass, right hand piano, and I triggered a Digitech VR from the RH chords. Hope it uploaded!

And I finally found the setting for file types so now you can even upload an MP3 now without having to zip it first. Hey gimme a break this forum software is new to me too lol

I wasn't able to open that zip Dave. It reported it was corrupted. Maybe try it again. I will add .m4a to the allowed files types so you can try to upload it directly again without zipping it first.

Why do I think there is an ulterior motive here? There are tons of great demos of the VP-770 on the 'net. Anyway, as usual, be careful what you wish for . I threw this together while trying to figure out a good way to utilize the 'scat' voices on the 770 (almost the same as the ones on my Fantom G7). I don't know the lyrics so I just repeat the one line that I remember . Here, I try to use the scat voices in conjunction with the harmonizer (in parts). As usual, it's done with my usual configuration of the PA1x (drums and sax), Fantom G7 (bass and rhythm guitar, and of course Nord C1 (organ). VH and Scat are the VP-770. Sounds kind of amateurish and the chords may not be correct (my memory is shot) but you asked for it. In case you don't recognize it, it's an old Grover Washington/Bill Withers tune called 'Just the two of us'. I thought it was symbolic of our wonderful relationship .

http://www.box.net/shared/6fg2fruq96

chas

OK, lets try this again!

Dave,

Email the song to me at travlin_easy@verizon.net and I'll be glad to post it for you.

As for the overdone country vocal harmonies, I sincerely believe some of that is because without all the effects, reverb, echo, delay and harmony, most of today's country singers would sound like $hit! I've heard a few of them on GMA when the mic effects were not turned on and they were really BAD--especially some of the gals. If they didn't show all that good looking flesh I don't think they could make a dime in the music biz--country or otherwise.

Just my 2-cents worth,

Gary

Gary

Gary,
I sent the file to your email. Looks like 2 downloads have happened already - did they play? There didn't seem to be any weirdness when I uploaded them.
Remember - this track is something like 10 years old - my New TC processor is even better than that one was, but the VR had a smooth quality that I loved. I still have one in case I have to use a standalone ....
My backup rig would make most of you cringe:
Korg i5S with the Digitech VR pumped into the aux in. Midi and audio files would come from my laptop in this scenario, but there's always that handy FLOPPY DISK DRIVE too! lol

Gary, your so right. Have you heard Taylor Swift sing live??? I don't think she can sing in key. She probably wouldn't even win American Idol?

Dave,

The zip file produced a message saying it was corrupt, and the M4 would not play on my PC.

I attached your MP3 to this post--maybe it will work.

Gary

It worked this time.

Good Luck,

Gary

Wow, it's the "Four Freshmen" ! What an "awesome" sound !
Dave, you certainly know how to make that Digitech VR sing.

Scott,

Having seen Dave perform in person on a few occasions I can add that it also helps to have a great voice and know how to utilize vocal control. Dave is one of my heroes in the OMB industry.

Gary

It seems that I was able to upload an old version of "A Nightingale Sang" that I made using a Digitech VR...but I can't find the post! hahaha ...
I wanted to thank everyone who replied with nice comments. My approach to harmony has always been more on the lines of the 4 part vocal groups, and not just back-up singers. I phrase differently and I treat the harmonies as if they were all co-lead voices. I am always tweaking the level in real time too - it let's me make my singers "think" and adjust as we sing together live.
Hope you all liked it!

Way to go, Chas. One of the "fun" tunes to mess around with.


R.

Downloaded fine, Dave. I played it for your "Kentucky filly" and, man did she squeal (LOL).

Seriously, nice job!

Russ

UD, chas ... thnx to both of for 2 more tunes on my iPOD ...
UD ... I think this is the version you had on your web site, no? ... loved it when you first posted it - years ago - and I love it now ...
chas ... you "throw together" nice ...

Hi Tony,
Yes, it's the same song from way back when ... I really do want to start recording again - I just need to restructure some of my time after school. It's been so different trying to live this daytime life ... not sure if I'm even doing it right !
lol

UD ... I - and I'm sure others - hope to hear more from you soon ...

... and who knows if ANY of us are 'doing it right' ...

Chas honestly?.....I really loved your version of one of one of my favorite songs, nice groove ...very well done loved when the organ came in.......the voices really sound cool & authentic scattin' in & out also... my only critisizm is the Balance on the mix & a bit too much reverb here & there otherwise loved it baby!! Thanx for sharing your work.

QUICK, everybody, group hug !!! ... cue music ... KUMBAYAH... ...

Well let's not get carried away, Tony. After all, Donny's still Donny and chas is still chas .

Donny, thanks. You're right about the 'verb. I put too much on everything; it's my way of hiding 'clunkers'. It's easier than going back and fixing them. Not really a good example of the 770 in VH mode as I use it mostly to hide/disguise my horrible voice. It IS a good harmonizer though but I'm not sure it will ever be very popular (except maybe in the studio) because nobody wants to carry around an extra keyboard. There is a module version (sort of) that could probably do the same job at less than half the price. I think it's called the VP-7 but I'm not sure and too lazy to look it up.

Okay, now can I go back to being bitchy (Nigel has already ruled me out as a marriage prospect because of it ). Actually, I hope that's not the only reason .

chas

chas ... is that your high school yearbook pic???

Yeah, you should see me when I'm in a bad mood.



chas

Wow! Cahs, you must be related to my ex mother-in-law...the resemblance is uncanny.

Ian

Oh yeah, you should hear what she has to say about YOU.



chas

I always knew when the mother-in-law arrived...the furnace would kick in, and the mice started throwing themselves in the traps.

Ian

Fred and Rick were in a pub. Fred says to his mate, 'My mother-in-law is an angel.'
Rick replies, 'You're lucky. Mine is still alive.'


chas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2mujNA7CRk

Jeez, I beat donny to it!:D

Yep, the "Duke of URL" is a bit tardy today...

common Chas you could do better then that with a profile pic.......even Capt Russ is now posting you tube videos

hey you know sometimes real musicians have to gig.....;) I cant do everything even an Executive chef has a few good Sous chefs

Chas is very, very shy, Donny...and, his modesty is only surpassed by his humilty.

Ian

124 ... that's GREAT ... my wife hated me singing that song ... she felt I might have REALLY meant it ... I told her "no way" !!!

I'm not all that great of singer...but I would like to do more....at leas some easy stuff. Does anyone have experience with the pitch correction (not the Hard correction(Cher))?? does it really help any at all if your not on key..but fairly close?

Would it be cool if te pitch correction would follow the RH melody note? Maybe RH3 or something without a sound assigned or turned way down.

Lee,

If you're off a tiny bit, it will put you right on the money. But, if you're off a half or better all bets are off.

Gary 8)

Gary, (Others)
OK, sounds reasonable...I did hear from a couple guys that they thought it could actually help in training to get on key as you learn to adjust so it sounds correct. I certainly know if it is of a whole note.

Any thougts on that aspect of it?

Actually, on many big shows where the singers use Auto-tune, they DON'T throw the corrected version back at the singer. Firstly, it adds a hair of latency, and then it is VERY off-putting to NOT hear what you are singing. Like having a delay on your singing (ever sing a ballpark?).

Singing close to pitch is all about hearing what you are doing, then your ear and brain adjust it towards where you want to go. Not all can do this completely successfully (or we wouldn't need pitch correction!) but everyone does it to one extent or another. But remove the ACTUAL singing, and feed a singer the corrected version, and it doesn't matter what the ear and the brain do. You can lose that 'connection' between your voice and you brain by doing that, and end up singing even WORSE!

Ideally, the pitch correction should be applied to what the AUDIENCE hears, but the unaffected signal should go back to the singer's monitors. Unless you are playing so quietly that you can STILL hear your original voice over the PA, trust me, this gets weird!

Diki,
Interesting...well looks like no help to my problem.
I think my issue is not the brain/hearing connection...I think mine is crappy vocal chords and post nasel issues.

That's why I need an arranger with koller sounds!

Aw, Lee ... look at all the GREAT singers with lousy voices out there:
Louis Armstrong
Rod Stewart
Bruce Springsteen
Bob Dylan
Jimmy Durante
So many more ..... some are not blessed with a beautiful sounding instrument, but their heart and phrasing come through and "sell" the song, just the same. A great singer is not always the one who has the best chops. Frank Sinatra is by no means the best technician, or has the strongest range ... he just surrounded himself with greatness and sang like an instrument.
Keep at it - sing with your eyes closed and your heart open .... reach deep and talk TO the audience. Another thing to remember:
Always memorize the lyrics - you can never really deliver a message with passion if you're reading it it at the same time. Read the words, out of rhythm first. Let them make sense to you, as a message. THEN - add the melody and start the phrasing. It's ALL presentation with vocals. Humility, passion and interpretation go a long way to soften weaknesses with pitch and tone. So, smile and just open your heart first .... THEN, your mouth!
Good luck!

The Tyros4 has an improved vocal harmonizer but it still leaves something to be desired in my opinion. FWIW, the only way I could get acceptable VH recordings on my Tyros1 was to eliminate extraneous noises from the mix, including noise from external speakers or other outside sources. I would wear headphones while recording and the VH settings had to be just right or there was a good chance of causing an overload to the system. The Tyros4 harmonizer seems to have fixed a lot of the distortion caused by overloading the harmonizer system it appears. I thought that the T4 demo was okay although there was a LOT of reverb added to it which gave it a hollow chamber effect which I didn't really care for. On the other hand, the Pa3X harmonizer seems to be par excellence for an onboard VH although more demos are needed to get a better idea how it stacks up against the competition.

As a comparison to the T4 Vocal Harmonizer this is a song recording I did on my Tyros1 a few years ago using its vocal harmonizer effects. PS: This is the first time I have added a file using the SynthZone File Manager so I'm not sure where it will show up once I post this. I guess we'll find out huh?