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#314413 - 01/29/11 11:45 AM MIDI for idiots?
Bill in Dayton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 2207
Loc: Dayton, OH USA
I'm forcing my self to sit down this weekend and try and find a MIDI file I could feel good about playing with...

I have plenty of them, but what's the deal with no uniformity to where things are assigned?

In six different files, I've found the melody track (which has to be muted or this is a deal breaker) all over the place. Sometimes its in 1, 3,6,7, etc...

Am I missing something?

Q: Once I do find it, can I mute a channel and then save it to the file so I don't have to do it every time? How do I do this?

This is like riding a bike backwards for me, lol...

Thanks-
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Bill in Dayton

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#314419 - 01/29/11 11:56 AM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Bill, Melody is on track 4 a lot as well. I seem to find 1 and 4 the melody tracks most of the time.

You should be able to modify the MIDI file anyway you want and then save it...at least all that is piece of cake on the Korg PA2.
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Lee S.

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#314424 - 01/29/11 12:05 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
The accepted standard for MIDIS is melody on track/ch 4, and bass on track/ch 2 with piano on track/ch 1.

Usually any harmony note tracks (those that will drive harmonisers) can be found on track/ch 5.

ANY commercial file will be set up this way.

Anything else different is an edited file. People who post MIDIS should stick to the standard. But sadly they don't as so you get this confusion with the files downloaded from "non-commercial" sites wink

Dennis

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#314433 - 01/29/11 12:35 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: miden]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Why not at first try creating your own SMF using a style omitting the parts you play....just to get the feel of playing along with one.

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#314439 - 01/29/11 12:47 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
Songman55 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 892
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Bill, I always do a save as after modifying the file. That way I always have the original. For instance, Mustang Sally becomes Mustang Sally 1. When you start playing along, you will want to adjust your volumes so your playing finds its spot in the mix. I don't use many but the ones I do use are very effective.

Joe
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PSR S950, PSR S900, Roland RD 700, Yamaha C3 6'Grand, Sennheiser E 935 mic, several recording mics including a Neuman U 87, Bose L1 Compact, Roland VS 2480 24 Track Recorder
Joe Ayala

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#314442 - 01/29/11 12:50 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
Songman55 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 892
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Bill, I should have mentioned that I do all of my editing on computer using Sonar 4. It puts everything on the screen so you can see what's going on. The finished product then goes on the thumb drive or floppy.

Joe
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PSR S950, PSR S900, Roland RD 700, Yamaha C3 6'Grand, Sennheiser E 935 mic, several recording mics including a Neuman U 87, Bose L1 Compact, Roland VS 2480 24 Track Recorder
Joe Ayala

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#314443 - 01/29/11 12:52 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
I suggest making all edits while listening to the sound system you will play through - then there are no surprises!
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No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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#314449 - 01/29/11 01:32 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: Uncle Dave]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
MIDI for idiots?...............


whats a midi?.. dance2

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#314450 - 01/29/11 01:38 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Dnj
MIDI for idiots?...............
whats a midi?.. dance2


Donny, many people, including myself, refer to a SMF, or Standard Midi File, as a "Midi".

It's a sort of slang, I guess, but, I haven't had anyone yet misunderstand me when the word was used in the proper context.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#314455 - 01/29/11 01:59 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Ian,
I'm sure Donny was poking fun at me. I have a pet peeve about using midi as a stand alone noun, instead of an adjective. I never say "a" midi ... always a midi file or an smf, or something like that. I'm an odd duck, I know, but I rarely use the word gig (I prefer work) and I don't play midis... I play midi files....sometimes. smile
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No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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#314457 - 01/29/11 02:01 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: Uncle Dave]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: Uncle Dave
Ian,
I'm sure Donny was poking fun at me. I have a pet peeve about using midi as a stand alone noun, instead of an adjective. I never say "a" midi ... always a midi file or an smf, or something like that. I'm an odd duck, I know, but I rarely use the word gig (I prefer work) and I don't play midis... I play midi files....sometimes. smile


like he said wink

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#314462 - 01/29/11 02:24 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: Uncle Dave]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Uncle Dave
Ian,
I'm sure Donny was poking fun at me. I have a pet peeve about using midi as a stand alone noun, instead of an adjective. I never say "a" midi ... always a midi file or an smf, or something like that. I'm an odd duck, I know, but I rarely use the word gig (I prefer work) and I don't play midis... I play midi files....sometimes. smile


So, when you gig you don't use midi's...sometimes...Ha ha.

The usage of "midi" as a noun, meaning SMF, is quite widespread...it seem to more prevalent among guitarists (I sell/demo a lot of arrangers to OMB Guitarists) but many keyboardists (including yours truly) use it...I probably got in the habit because I deal with so many guitarists, and it's easier to go with the flow, than try to re-educate them.

"Gig"...some people just don't like the sound of the word itself...I have a lady friend who hates the word "deuce" (in card playing)...I tend to use "gig" and "work" interchangeably, as they both mean the same to me.

I never use midi files when working...I just like using the styles...yes, it's harder to play tunes "exactly" like the original (even with song specific styles) but, I generally don't play in that way, and tell those who want the exact recording, to buy the CD of the original...plus, being an instrumentalist tends to give me more elbow room when it comes to gigging...er...working.

Donny has asked this question several times about "midis"...I think he uses them quite a bit at his gigs...er...his shows.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#314469 - 01/29/11 03:00 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: ianmcnll]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll
Originally Posted By: Uncle Dave
Ian,
I'm sure Donny was poking fun at me. I have a pet peeve about using midi as a stand alone noun, instead of an adjective. I never say "a" midi ... always a midi file or an smf, or something like that. I'm an odd duck, I know, but I rarely use the word gig (I prefer work) and I don't play midis... I play midi files....sometimes. smile


So, when you gig you don't use midi's...sometimes...Ha ha.

The usage of "midi" as a noun, meaning SMF, is quite widespread...it seem to more prevalent among guitarists (I sell/demo a lot of arrangers to OMB Guitarists) but many keyboardists (including yours truly) use it...I probably got in the habit because I deal with so many guitarists, and it's easier to go with the flow, than try to re-educate them.

"Gig"...some people just don't like the sound of the word itself...I have a lady friend who hates the word "deuce" (in card playing)...I tend to use "gig" and "work" interchangeably, as they both mean the same to me.

I never use midi files when working...I just like using the styles...yes, it's harder to play tunes "exactly" like the original (even with song specific styles) but, I generally don't play in that way, and tell those who want the exact recording, to buy the CD of the original...plus, being an instrumentalist tends to give me more elbow room when it comes to gigging...er...working.

Donny has asked this question several times about "midis"...I think he uses them quite a bit at his gigs...er...his shows.

Ian


Ian on small gigs I don't use backing tracks at all..only styles... but on many of my big jobs I utilize everything I can Styles, Smf, Mp3, etc, to back myself up as a singer there are NO rules, thats what all these vehicles were created for...after all styles as you know are only small Midi Files anyway......anyway you look at it if your not playing a solo acoustic instrument alone you the operator of an electronic device that creates music...nothing more...just do it well & enjoy yourself doing it....& if your lucky the audience will also no matter how its done.

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#314497 - 01/29/11 08:04 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Bill,

It's an easy task using your keyboard. Just fire up the midi file, then press the mixing console button several times until you see the midi channels (1-8)(9-16).

Next, select digital recording, song creator, then tab to channels, press the mixing console button while the midi file is playing and note the flashing dots at the bottom of the screen. Adjust the volume of the channel(s) you wish to mute down to "0", press Execute and Save. As Joe said, save them to another name so you do not overwrite the original.

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#314503 - 01/29/11 09:28 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
Bill in Dayton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 2207
Loc: Dayton, OH USA
Who wants to fly to Dayton for a day?

Ugh...

More questions:

1) When trying to change the key of a midi file, I went into the score screen and selected the tab that offered various key signatures. It said it changed, but I still couldn't move the tune into my key of choice. Whats the trick for this?

2) On some MIDI files, it somehow turns my vocal reverb on the harmonizer down to zero...Why? How do I avoid this?


I'm not having any fun yet... frown


Edited by Bill in Dayton (01/29/11 09:31 PM)
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Bill in Dayton

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#314505 - 01/29/11 09:38 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: Bill in Dayton
Who wants to fly to Dayton for a day?

Ugh...

More questions:

1) When trying to change the key of a midi file, I went into the score screen and selected the tab that offered various key signatures. It said it changed, but I still couldn't move the tune into my key of choice. Whats the trick for this?

2) On some MIDI files, it somehow turns my vocal reverb on the harmonizer down to zero...Why? How do I avoid this?


I'm not having any fun yet... frown



Best $49.00 you'll ever spend .....this program will do it all for you regarding SMF's...easy to learn also....

http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm

http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm

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#314507 - 01/29/11 09:52 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: Dnj]
Bill in Dayton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 2207
Loc: Dayton, OH USA
Thanks for the suggestion Donny, but I watched the first 5 minutes of the tutorial and turned it off. It reminds me of Cakewalk or something...I'm having trouble trying to play and do basic edits on a midi file...the idea of creating my own is way beyond what I'm trying to figure out right now...

Not what I'm looking for...

This stuff also reminds me of my old Triton ProX 88 Sequencer...I despised that kb...I had to record the drums...save...record the bass...save...etc...

Nope, not me...
_________________________
Bill in Dayton

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#314509 - 01/29/11 10:26 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: Bill in Dayton
Thanks for the suggestion Donny, but I watched the first 5 minutes of the tutorial and turned it off. It reminds me of Cakewalk or something...I'm having trouble trying to play and do basic edits on a midi file...the idea of creating my own is way beyond what I'm trying to figure out right now...

Not what I'm looking for...

This stuff also reminds me of my old Triton ProX 88 Sequencer...I despised that kb...I had to record the drums...save...record the bass...save...etc...

Nope, not me...


Maybe you should stick with just style playing......
Using SMF's is not for everybody....good luck.

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#314512 - 01/29/11 10:47 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
jpapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Somewhere in CA
I'm also trying to learn how to play along with MIDI's. What I don't get is how to program the sound changes like Bert does in this video. He starts off the sequence and the clav sound is ready for him to start playing. How does one do that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvShmhN6V9M

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#314527 - 01/30/11 04:37 AM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: jpapas]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By: jpapas
I'm also trying to learn how to play along with MIDI's. What I don't get is how to program the sound changes like Bert does in this video. He starts off the sequence and the clav sound is ready for him to start playing. How does one do that?



The above task is simple to accomplish. On an already recorded midi file, simply go into edit mode and insert a program change message at the appropriate position in the file. Make sure it's on the correct track. If you are creating a file, make sure the sequencer is set to record program changes. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY; google something like 'understanding midi' and try to get a basic grasp of the concept, terms, conventions, etc. of using midi. This should be done before tackling the specifics and 'how to's' of your sequencer or midi editor, whether computer based or intergrated into your keyboard. Just answering you specific questions will not help you much until you have a decent grasp of the basic concepts.

chas
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"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#314550 - 01/30/11 09:19 AM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Bill,

One of the easiest programs to use is Michael Bedesem's MIDI Player II, which can be downloaded from the PSR Tutorial forum at http://www.psrtutorial.com/MB/midiplayer.html . It is very user friendly and it's free. It will perform a huge number of tasks on both midi and style files.

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#314600 - 01/30/11 02:23 PM Re: MIDI for idiots? [Re: cgiles]
jpapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Somewhere in CA
Thanks for the reply cgiles. I understand the MIDI concept just didn't know there was a specific program change message.

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