The same guy and the T-4 Organ Sounds...Outstanding!

Larry,
Yes, I heard that one too. I listened and carefully watched all his work, and some I watched more than once. They are all good.

Fran, The Korg Kronos could be OK...but I have not heard the Orchestreal sounds on it at all. They may be crap just like the M3 was. Actually I found that the same exact problems with sound existed on BOTH the PA2 and M3. Korg needs to up the game on their sounds. We will see if the Kronos is any better than M3, in the area I am taliking about.

Reember, when these 2 keyboards (which ever ones it is) are married closly together, you CAN NOT get to any of the controls on the lower. So it really just needs to be a MIDI controller, or you will need other MIDI control HW to control it.

The key here is the sounds, and function of the lower.
For those of you that have never played organ (with pedals as well) and had the freedom of that extra manual, you may not know what your missing.

No, you could not do the performance he does withou the lower keybed.....especially on a measly 61 note keyboard! Imagine the split point in the normal spot you play...now go watch these performances again..can't be done.

You need a lot more room on the left than you would have. And you just move to lower when needed for the different sound.

Really my whole point of the post is the SOUND. A second area is the full organ function.

I won't call the Korg orchestra sounds crap. For you they sound not as good as the Yamaha for me they sound way better. Have you ever try to edit and combine some sounds on your PA2x? You will be amazed how great orchestra sounds you can create on a Korg PA. Yes even on a PA50.

Ouch! Anyone else notice that lower manual going flat? What's up with that?

It started out in tune, then went flat when he got ready to play. Weird...

Have to admit, for about $5000 investment, he's got himself an organ that in many ways is superior to many of those $20,000 behemoths. Now all he needs is a skating rink, and he's booked!

I don't have time to be a sound engineer.
Slowly play many of the sounds accross the range of the emulated instrument.....you will fins many issues...like Sudden change in Timbre, drastic change in vibrato note to note (and all of a sudden when they change samples).

Just ry a bunch (Cornet, Sax, violins etc)

Maybe they are not as bad as I said..but it is a sore point with me...if I pay $3,500 for an instrument, in 2010 the sounds should not have those issues. For the type of music I play, it runs my performance.
So, I just do't use those voices (that's not so good)

I am waiting to see if they fixed all that in the PA3X...I sent Korg PA a 3 page document outlining most of the problems...let's see if they ignored it? If they did, they lost a customer.

The very nature of sampling means you will ALWAYS get issues like that. It is only big streaming VSTi libraries that allow you to get away from most of it. Essentially, you have to have a totally separate sample, not only for every note, but also every velocity of that note, then round-robin note triggering for when you play the exact same note at the exact same velocity twice or more.

That is an amount of data completely outside the scope of ROM keyboards.

And it STILL really doesn't address the issue of vibrato, as this varies radically depending on things like mood, tempo, note length, things like that.

To be honest, the sax as a solo instrument defies sampling. It is just TOO variable and expressive, in ways that make it impossible to emulate to the degree that it will completely fool you AT ALL TIMES. You play the right phrase, in the right way, that best works with the sample set, sure, it's going to be hard to tell. But expecting it to do ANYTHING a sax player can do, that's beyond the scope of even the best VSTi's... (listen to the demos of them - I still haven't heard one that can fool me).

Get one of the Lionstracs modules, and load it up with the best GIGA and VSTi stuff you can. Expecting an affordable (don't forget, after the MS module, you STILL have to pay up to thousands extra for the very best VSTi libraries) hardware arranger to provide what would still cost a lot of money even using today's technology is just a bit pie-in-the-sky, I'm afraid.

Diki,
Yes, from a pure tech. standpoint I agree 100%.
But, I should not get a stupid Honk sound when I play Sax from C5 to C6! ONLY on that one note. And, the damm vobrato should not be almost twice as much from 1 note to another (only a couple places in the key span, and only some sounds). Agree? That's just bad samples or the sound engineer did not select the correct one..when they stretch a few notes (usually 3-5 or so) per sample you will get a small variance. That's not what I am talking about...this is all of a sudden, and obvious. To keep it in context, it is not every sound, just some, but way to many and it seems it's the ones I want to play.

I'm sure the Yamaha is far from truly perfect, BUT, I think on the T3/T4 they were a lot more careful and skillful in the sound engineering. This is based on what I have heard in demos...I don't have one.

The PA2XPRO is in general a fine instrument and has some super sounds. But, the way I play I have found some issues.

With no one singing, and music like Telmo and Solitare the sounds have to be great, as that's all there is.
If someone used those same voices I am talking about and played fast dance music....maybe sang too, with lots of heavy style going too...you would probably never notice it.

Have you listened to the performances by Solitare? It does take some time...if you find time I would be interested in you opinion of the sound of the T4(we know he's good!).

I don't hear too much wrong with this:
http://www.youtube.com/user/YAMATI40#p/u/73/YtJOVGn_UR8

By the way, If Korg fixed those issues...(I sent them a 3 pg. document) there still in the game for me.

Sorry, Lee, but if you are going to get picky, you are going to find trouble with any ROMpler's saxes. The T4's are some of the best, but I can still hear issues.

The really low notes sound good, but there's one REALLY low note that was weird, then the low note vibrato works at that slow dreamy tempo, but faster it is going to annoy you (sax players change vibrato speed depending on tempo and all sorts of other things). Then there's a sort of phasey sound in the mid register (and I've heard it on other recordings, it's not a video encoding issue) that bugs me, a nasality I don't like.

Some of it comes down to the fact he's not bending anything at all, and phrasing like a keyboard player, I've heard the same sound used on Yamaha's own demos to spectacular effect, but in the end, it ALWAYS comes down to one thing with sample sets... if you are prepared to play what suits THEM, rather than them try to suit whatever YOU want to play, you usually get good results. Heck, I've even heard good sax demos of Korg PA2's DNC sax..! As long as you play to their strengths, and avoid their weaknesses, you are good to go. Expose their weaknesses, though (as you can even with Yamaha's saxes) and they will still suck!

In the meantime, at least with a Korg, you can load some third party samples into it. I've heard some really good ones, for Akai. Shop around, and you may find yourself, instead of losing out on your favorite arranger features to go after a particular sound, you just load those sounds into RAM and keep what you have!

BTW, sounds are burned to a ROM chip. They aren't sitting in RAM and can be adjusted. So asking Korg to change something set in stone is not going to get results. Costs a FORTUNE to make a new ROM die.

Plus, the original sax player and the studio that recorded it may be long gone. It's really hard to match samples on another player and sax.

Bottom line (and I didn't hear it on the NAMM video's but we know that was all beta) Korg need entirely NEW sample sets recorded specifically for DNC. It's what Yamaha do for SA, they don't use recycled samples from non SA sounds, all of their SA stuff is completely new samples. If Korg do this, they have a winner. If they don't, I'm sorry, but having SA capability without SA samples is a total waste of the whole POINT of the feature!

A Good entry level set of Sax sounds are contained in this Sound set http://www.garritan.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=144&Itemid=56

Or if you really love your Sax sounds this dedicated model may suit http://www.linplug.com/Instruments/SaxLab_2/saxlab_2.htm

Bill