I really didn't think I would be saying this...but after many hours of listening to many performances...I am.

Listen to this performance. Keep in mind there are user voices involved...that's OK by me.

The quality of the sound sounds very good to my ears.
Yamaha must have one 'H' of a sound engine/system to be able to sound this good.
I have e-mailed him, the user sounds/regs/and styles are for sale. If I had a T3 or T4...I would order them.
Be sure to use good headphones or speakers, or don't bother.

http://www.youtube.com/user/YAMATI40#p/u/62/tjlGuyu3f_Y

Also, if you look at all his you-tube videos available you see he demos all his user voices.
I am interested in what you all think.

Hi Lee,

My Tyros4 sounds pretty darn awesome.

I've been playing the Tyros4 quite a lot in the last two days...very impressive all around.

The Tyros4 appears to be the "love child" of the Tyros2 and Tyros3.

Have a cigar.

Ian

PS...Orchestral styles and patches, just on the standard T4 without extras, are pretty formidable.

That is one impressive demo as far as sounds, orchestration, and musical ability. I skipped around a little bit, however. I'm not ready for a 7:30 Mona Lisa. Maybe when I'm tucked in.

It's the samples, pure and simple. Yamaha have always done an exceptional job of recording samples for keyboards, possibly to do with them actually MAKING the real instruments in the first place, so a bad sample quickly gets shot down for being wrong!

This is superb, if this is the kind of thing you are into. Short of some VSTi libraries and a few Akai loads, I don't think I've heard better orchestral samples, especially out of just the one machine. I've always had to do it from a combination of different things... this one's strings, that one's flutes, this oboe, that french horn, etc.

The thing is, the all blend together very well. A bit 'distant', if you will, though. Very much a large film orchestra, on a large stage, rather than a more close and intimate smaller ensemble. But it's too much to expect EVERYTHING..! If you like this kind of sound (and who doesn't!) it looks like the easiest way to go, short of a decent VSTi rig and something like Vienna Orchestral Library...

Just remember, the samples are just the START... When it comes to orchestration, it is still 90% what you play, and how you play it, voice it, orchestrate it. There's no easy OOTB solution. You still have to play great!

Lee et all: Just got home from my gig with the Tyros 4 and as usual had the audience in awe with the sound, and believe it or not, particularally the style's background vocals, which I enjoy augmenting with my live lead vocal. I'm always getting comments asking where my backup singers are hiding. When I initially bought my Tyros 4 I thought I'd never use styles with vocal auto accomp parts, but I've since changed my mind. As a singer, I'm finding both vocal auto accomp and/or the ability to "live play" the vocal voices either in left hand (pad style) or as fills/solo in my RH a terrific way to add interest to my songs. The solo SA2 instrument voices sound equally impressive but it seems the backup vocals are wowing my audience most. My only Tyros 4 "beef" is the odd mod wheel direction assignment on organ voices, and the inability to call up reg bank files from the MusicFinder. Having my Tyros 4 for nearly two months now, perhaps the thing I enjoy most is It's out of the box impressive sound requiring little or no tweaking, and it's intuitive navigational interface, making This keyboard such a fun to "play" station vs "work" station.

BTW, note his great swell pedal use... that's what makes much of this come alive. Just play those sounds from the keyboard alone, and they lose much of this.

Don't leave home without one!

Diki,
I agree, if you don't have the samples done right...'foget about it'!
Sorry about the Mona Lisa thing...but it struck me as especialy beauitful. And the sounds were great. I don't play all my music that laid back! I am the kind of guy that must have a seat near the first violin section when I go to symphony.

Diki, correct as usual..the orchestration, playing is what makes the performance...BUT ar least for me, the instrumet, specially the sound has to be inspiring! I guess that's why I have a Kurzweil.

I just want to play it, I don't have time ori the real interest n being a sound engineer..not that I won't tweek a sound some.

Diki, your the first to say it...how the sounds work together is a big deal, and Yamaha has nailed that. Yes, a bit distant...but, I turned up the volume and it dd seem better.

Yes, I plan on using my PK-5 pedal board.

I guess all along I wanted a Yamaha Stagea...this is close...maybe better!

Actually this is bitter sweet. I really want a Korg to sound that good...as I prefer the features and many things on it to the Yamaha. But, this time sound will be the deciding factor.

How did the audience like your Logitech Z2300 system with the T4?

I downloaded the complete Tyros3, Tyros2, and CVP-509 factory preset styles.

They sound super good in the Tyros4, and in the case of the Tyros3 styles...these sound even better than they do on the T3.

Diki is right about the swell pedal...almost totally necessary on the the SA organ voices, like WhiterBars, AllBarsOut, ProgRockOrgan, ClassicBars, JazzRotary, and RockRotary, to name just a few.

Also works with the orchestral SA voices like RealStrings, ClassicalStrings, LushStrings, the various SA Brass and Horns, and the synth sounds, which are from the Motif.

The "out of the box" sound is excellent...never had to tweak anything, even the OTS from the Tyros2/3 styles; the styles from the CVP-509 needed a few changes, but nothing serious.

I'm using a pair of Yamaha MS60S powered monitors, and the Tyros4 sounds BIG, but yet, it can still be delicate and sweet sounding.

I have two demos scheduled for next week...back to practising.

Ian

Donny, used the larger Z5500 POZ setup tonight. Still haven't had a chance to try out the Z2300’s satellites perched atop the T4 because it requires mounting them to the T4 MS04 swivel bases, which are currently mounted to my Bose 161 satellites. Remounting requires drilling holes on the bottom of the Z2300's satellites and I just have'nt found time to do that yet. Perhaps next week.

ok awaiting your reviews once your set up with the Z2300 unit...that said, curious to hear what you think of it after performing a few gigs with it.

Lee I've been following The Solitaire (YAMATI40) since the first day he appeared on YouTube. He is an awesome player, he started playing a Wersi organ (I guess he still has that one) and later made an organ with the Tyros 3 and 4. Definetively I think you should go for the Tyros to build your organ according to what I think you enjoy most: orchestral music. There are very few orchestral styles for the Pa series.

Victor,
Hello, hope your doing well...
I appreciate your input...coming from an accomplished musician and technically savvy person like yourself it does help.

Before I finally decide I will take a day to play both the PA3X and the T4, very carefully listening to the sounds and getting a feel for the instruments. I may need to travel to see Frankie to do that. I wish the PA3X was coming sooner.

Victor, do you know anything about the Solitare's setup? I beleive he speaks German, and I do not. There is a list of questions I have for him, the main one, being did he buy that beast or do it himself? It looks just like a Wersi cabinet, so I wander if he didn't just get one and modify it? He does sell all his user sounds/registratios/and 1500 styles for $300.

Hello Lee

First of I want to tell you I'm grateful for your kind words but remember I am a hobbyist.

If you will use a pedalboard to play the styles' bass part you should go for the Tyros. Yamaha has the On Bass Note recognition on the Midi chart so it plays the bass following the style pattern. On a Korg you have to do it all by yourself. I don't know about the Pa3X, you should ask about that feature but I doubt they implemented this.

The Solitaire has made himself that set up and, coming from a Wersi organ player background, he built the cabinet very similar to that manufacturer. I suppose he used a pedalboard from a Wersi organ but the lower keyboard is an M Audio 61controller, the same Keithwilson (http://www.youtube.com/user/keithwilson01) and I use.

His English is very basic, he is a Pro player and makes a living playing gigs. Once, before he created this newer account on You Tube, I asked him about his set up. He never answered and a few days later he closed his account so I thought he didn't want to share his idea. I never asked again but you can try, there's nothing to lose and this idea has been developed by many others now.

Victor,
OK, I see. Well yes, I remember the T2 I had worked OK with the Roland PK-5 pedals. I'm glad you reminded me of that feature a I had forgot.

As to his setup, the lower has some extra STUFF on the left...not sure what it is, a panel with some lights/sitches...something, I have never seen him use that area??
He did answer me, but he did not answer as to the setup at all, just to give me the cost of all his extra's (User sounds/regs/Styles).
I would beleive all he is doing is through MIDI and he did not do anything all that difficult. BUT, one of his demos...he shows the back of the unit...behind the M-Audio there is a board?? Or, maybe he pulled the M-Audio out of it's cabinet to mount it in his?

Take a closer look and let me know what you think.

I know you have domne a lot of the interconnectio/integration/MIDI. I have done quite a bit too...so it hould not be that tuff.

Hi Lee S

It’s one of the old CD line Wersi cabinets with all the Wersi innards and panels removed.

The lower keyboard is a cannibalized M Audio which he has adapted to suit the casing. (The buttons and Slider are a standard fit on the M Audio Controller)

He is very active on the Tastenpoint Forum http://www.tastenpoint.at/forum/ which if you use Google Translate you will get by fine. (Reply in English as he also uses Translation Software)

There is also a link to a video on the site that actually shows you the innards and how it is made up.

Hope this helps

Bill

Bill,
WOW...thank you so very much for the help...I will get on there and do some homework!

I may very well build one of these....
Since I cannnot afford a Wersi.

Lee, you might want to look around for an old Yamaha Electone organ, that may be had for little or nothing...some, the entry level models, are even given away.

The cabinets are very well made, even on the entry models, and provide a great place with which to start on a double manual.

Also, older non-working Hammond Home models may be worth looking into for the same reason.

Ian

Lee I think Abacus is correct, he only adapted a Wersi organ cabinet. I watched a video that I can't find now in which he shows how he made it up. The connection from the M audio to the Tyros I believe is a simple Midi Out-In type but he needed a special board for adapting the pedals to the Tyros and he required a Midi coupler for the Tyros Midi In or a connection via Usb to be able to use the M Audio controller and the pedalboard.

Ian has an idea I also thought but those low end organs are too narrow (less than 114 cm/45 inches) and you need to do some work to adapt external pedalboard and the volume/sustain pedals. Besides, believe it or not, I think I could never destroy an organ

One of the happiest days of my life was the day I was able to stop hauling organs around, with the advent of arranger keyboards.
I guess the flexibility would be nice, of it would be great to have a double kb rig at home, but personally I barely scratch the surface of exploring the capabilities of the gear I have now.
Glad I'm not tempted to get into all of the WORK assembling pseudo-organs!
They sound great though.
DonM

Yes DonM you are right but it depends on how you look at it. Lee and I belong to a different strain in this forum We want an organ but we don't want to spend a fortune on one and we enjoy this hobby at home thinking how to build the beast. Well actually Lee has been thinking this for more than a year so far and has not decided yet if it's better buying the Tyros 5, the Pa4X or may be the Audya...

Ian,
Good suggestion if I could find one the correct size.

Don, I understand. Arrangers are great...but I really miss the organ...and now I can have both! I actually think it will be better than a Yamaha Stagea which is what I was looking for. I plan on my setup being easy to just pull the arranget off and walk away with it. Then just pop it back into the organ anytime. I only play as a hobby at ome, but I might want to take the arranger to someplace (vacation, play with a group of friends, etc).

Victor, OK...and if you find that video, pleas let me know.

An old C-series Electone might be wide enough...the A-series and maybe the B-series may be a bit too narrow, although some of the latter were quite wide.

Here is the Electone museum...many, but not all, of the older series organs are pictured (some with several pictures...click on IMAGES>>> just under the top part and at the right of the main picture) with specs, right up to almost the present, many have the dimensions listed.

http://www.electone.com/museum/

Looking at the history, I actually owned several of those listed, and played almost all of them. I like visting this site once in awhile.

I hope this helps a bit.

Probably the most likely ones to find and use would be the C-series in the 70's.

Ian