http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giHvWl67Jdk

While listening to this Tyros version of Moonlight Serenade Which is played very well....BUT, and I see this alot, throughout the whole song not once does the lead sound ever change making for a very boring, monotonous listening experience....with all the great sound opportunities to use ....I would have definitly like to have heard some patch changes here and there just as a real Big Band would have done, the OTS buttons are right above his fingers!... especially in a classic song like this......just my observations.
This song screams for other sounds in certain parts.

25 views not one comment so I guess everyone here thinks using one sound all the way thru a song is ok?.....why cant we have a normal discussion on technique?

Donny,
I agre with you he shold make a couple changes during the song. Switching to a different brass section like the original Glem Miller version would work. Ot maybe a sax ensemble. Or just muted brass.

I think it's always good to listen to several renditions of the song...then do what trips your trigger!

I think the reason everyone has been OK with his performance is: That Brass sound is super!

DNJ, hi there, tend to thing it is a bit subjective. If you just and some simple dance music or elevator music then, this piece is played ok. But, for the listener to really enjoy it , there needs to be more dynamics put into it. I am not trying to take away from his playing - which is ..... well nice, but like you said - boring.

His playing is fine.....I agree with you both that not only in this song but playing songs in general with an arranger KB people tend to use too much piano, or use the wrong sound to emulate a vocal instrumental melody line. To some it could be to distracting to make changes throwing off their timing, or maybe they just don't realize what happening and just have to concentrate on reading the music, etc, etc, ...creativeness when playing a song is what an arranger KB is all about & it makes it fun for the player to experiment and for the listener in the audience to enjoy the song listening experience a bit more. three voice pads or searing solos instruments sounds can really make someone take notice during a song, it also shows the players artistic ability also. With so much power to create it should be utilized a bit more to show off what the Kb & player can offer.

DNJ, Agree, but it also depends on the experience and ability the player has , not just one of the best (in its day) KB under their hands.
Maybe he just needs to relax and be encouraged to put more of himself into the music and not just play the notes. He did mention that he changed a couple of the chords to suit himself though.


Allan

Allan this was the point of my post originally...to bring things like this up so that other can be aware and maybe try to be creative, ad-lib, or just try to make the music more interesting then just what the music chart indicates. Experiment and make songs your own in any way you can. There are many crayons in the box with many colors use them all to make a beautiful picture.

Donny,

You're right--it was well played and boring as Hell!

Gary

I would like to hear a few of the members here post this song the way they play it. I would probably play it kind of like he did, with maybe a change is sound at a couple points.
But, I would like to learn from the top players here.

To me it looks / sounds like it's played stright from sheet. Many times we see the players are so focused into the paper / sheet that everything gets a bit "mechanical" and liveless.
Also it may feel a bit boring or uninspired when they don't find time to do some instrumental variations and put some personal feelings into it.
Usually that's going to loose up and get better the more secure the player feels after some repeats of the song.

Keep on Rockin'


Cheers
GJ

That is another bad habit also....many players are so entrenched into the sheet & use it as a crutch much too much...memorization is a good technique to master. It frees up the mind to be more creative while playing. Good post Jonny !

It might sound silly but as an excercise I suggest..and I have mentioned this in previous posts on SZ for years...

1- blindfold yourself and try to play some familiar songs concentrate on less mistakes

2- have someone Talk to you while your playing this will stenghten your ability to multitask & let the playing become secondary & effortless

3- with repeated playing try to completley memorize at least one song a week. Everytime you forget any parts just adlib adding your own twist to it.

What a load of tosh!

And this one I took note of : "Everytime you forget any parts just adlib adding your own twist to it." you mean like when someone changes the lyrics in the anthem, they should just add their own twist and thats all okay?

I was talking about playing not singing.....

Well, for those players and singers that like to play a different set of 60-70 songs each gig, having a resource like Unrealbook and the iPad makes it do-able.

I for one cannot remember chords and lyrics to over 1000 songs (my current PA2 Songbook resource)

If you are saying you CAN do this (remember the chords and lyrics to 1000 songs and NOT just 2 and 3 chord tunes either), well then, I have to admit I find that difficult to believe....

Maybe you can, but you would be the first I have ever come across in over 35 years.

Thats why I said TOSH to your post. Also a player CAN be very creative and spontaneous with a chart. Chart reading does not inhibit "free-style" playing!!!

They certainly can be spontaneous...all the chart acts as is a map.

If you needed directions to a certain place, then, you'd use a map, or have someone draw one for you.

The first time you'd have to look at it a lot.

Next time, not so much.

Eventually you wouldn't need it, and, perhaps, after getting familiar with the territory, you could try other ways of getting there, perhaps a different street with more scenic diversity...or a shortcut.

Then, if you hadn't been to that place in quite a long time, you'd just take out your map, and depending on how long you were away, you'd study it briefly, or intently, but probably, never as much as the first time.

I doubt if I remember, or ever did remember, the changes for 1000 songs...heck, maybe, and that's a big maybe, about a third that many...that's why I have charts and fake books...just too much to remember, on top of remembering which style, what tempo, what instruments featured...even what key, if using transposition.

Someone that can remember 1000 songs and their chords, or lyrics, or both, must have a "photographic" memory.

I've been reading charts and fake music for a long time, and I'm not usually "locked in" to rigorous interpretation, unless it is specified beforehand.

Ian

Exactly!!! And then the driver is free to choose his own way of getting to the same destination.

D

This music chart debate has been going round and round here for far too long. There's a BIG difference between having your nose buried in a book when performing vs simply using a chart as a road map. Though I've got my core repertoire memorized, I always keep a lyric and/or chord chart discreetly handy to cue me in for 'audience requested' songs that may not be so fresh in my memory. Only when featured as the lead/solo performer in a 'stage show' setting and playing a specific song set, will I make sure I have all my material fully memorized.

I use to be able to set down and play about 75 songs without the music. I took a 15 year break where I did not play. Now, I am a bit discuraged that I do not remember more than a small handfull.
So, I find myself totally re-learning these songs...and it's not as easy as when I was younger. Now I seem to need the leadsheets more.

Is there any suggestions for memorizing songs?
And, yes, I do remember I used to adlib some and change up the sounds to make it less boring.

Yes, it was nicely played, but a little creativity with instrumentation or modulations would add a lot to his playing.

I perform that tune, when requested and I usually use a sax solo through the first time, then I go to the sax/clarinet combo, then a solo trumpet in the little middle section, then back to the sax/clarinet combo.

I go through it a 3rd time, with piano and strings for the main section but feature a clarinet on the middle section, then finish with the piano/string thing.

I also modulate as I go into the 3rd time through, which really lifts it, IMO...

If I sing it, I use a different arrangement with a variation of
the above stuff...

When I sit down and memorize a song, I first flesh out the chord progression (Im-VIm-IIm-V7-I etc) and note any repeating chord progression patterns. Once I got that, I'm able to then easily figure out & play the melody 'by ear' while playing along to the chord progression, as the melody notes are included within the associated chord scales.

The problem for older players and new material is not so much learning and memorizing the tune, but not being able to RETAIN it in memory (the result of not playing it often enough to get it burned into your brain ). I can play tunes that I learned 30 years ago but really struggle with something that we learned last week at rehearsal and practiced for several hours. Short term memory is just shot.

chas

Well, there's certainly nothing new about staying with the same sound throughout a song. Donkey's years ago, I remember going into a pub and the resident guy playing a Hammond all evening never touched the drawbars at all. Maybe this guy in the video is related.

Dennis I agree with you about 2 or 3 chord changes and very simple chords to boot....This is what makes tunes boring..not the instrumentation...

Personally I like to maintain the same band during the performances..I want the same piano player, same bass player, same drum kit...same guitar player or organ player....

Big Band songs that you want as a big band..then you do have to mix the instrument groups..

I say by all means use charts if it is going to help you play more complex and interesting chords...

Strong vocalist can usually get by 2, 5 ing their way thru a tune...but I listen and appreciate the player that creates interest with chord changes...they tell a story as much as the lyrics do...

Just curious, Donny, but how do YOU play Moonlight Serenade?

With an MP3, with an SMF, or full arranger? What sounds do you use for each section?

All of the above depending on the gig, I like Carly Simons New version...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96px84SJQJI&feature=related

or when I play & sing it on the S910 I use a custom tweaked Movie Swing Style, with a RH sax mix, Sax clarinet mix, & Trumpet, & Symphony Brass/Strings mix to back up my vocal.. .

Donny,
I woud like to hear that, why not post it for us to enjoy?

Yes that would be a real learning experience for all of us.
"Walk the walk" YOU are always so adamant about others doing Donny....

Surprise us

Yes, Donny, that would be very cool if you would kindly post your arrangement of Moonlight Serenade, played with the tweaked Movie Swing style...I've never heard it done with that style.

I always enjoy your music.

Please share some with us.

Ian