New video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAUB1xkP-2Y

Col

Thanks for the video Col.


BTW, I wanted to post a link to the first website where they list the PA3X prices for both the 61 key version and the 76 key version. Only $300 more for the 76 key version which gives you 15 more keys a tilt screen LCD that the 61 key version doesn't have and if I'm not mistaken the 76 key version has a couple other additions the 61 key version doesn't have. Besides the added weight that is. I could be wrong about that though.

Korg PA3X Prices

As you can see they're both pretty expensive but still a lot cheaper in price than either the Tyros4 or Audya.

All the best,
Mike

Oh yeah, the 76 key version has the hard drive included also. The 61 key version doesn't include the hard drive.

All the best,
Mike

So I thought they were still working on it??? appears not,, a lot of talking, but I will want to hear and see a long version of sound and improvements over PA2x b4 I will be making any judgements.. Pitty they did'nt seize the opp at NAMM to do it properly, and this add only makes me feel a little sus about whats going to be seen and heard at Musismesse// looks like mutton done up as chicken so far,,, hope it does improve,, it's good for all of us

Too bad the video focused only on loudly talking about the keyboard without giving us (not even one full sec) a chance to actually "hear how it sounds" on its own. Is Korg trying to hide something?

Look, wait for the official release. I would hate to hear how Yamaha would have got the same criticism if demo'd before even the new styles were in it, or the new SA2 sounds finalized...

Korg have DOUBLED the sound ROM. That has GOT to count for something, surely? If little of that has made it to a demo, it's obvious it is still being tweaked.

Let's just hold our horses, and perhaps cut the Korg the same slack we would cut Yamaha, eh?!

Right Diki and it isn't a official video from Korg

Do many great choices now--Audya, Tyros 4, Roland BK7m, Korg PA3x, Casio WK7500, well . . .
Anyway I could make a case for any or all of them. Can't wait to see the finished products on Korg and Roland, and Audya
DonM

In the video they talk about the PAAS speaker system.......could that be a cousin of the Bose PAS speaker system.....looks like one?

In their infinite wisdom.....they want to make a big slash at Muzikmesse. That was the original annoucement event planned. KorgPA has not even announced it yet on the site.

It better be a big splash after their big splat at NAMM. (Deo wise)
It might blow our socks off, let's wait & see.....

Lee it will be the same as the PA1 and PA2. About 2-3 weeks out, the press releases will start appearing on Korgpa.com

Hi Diki as quoted "Look, wait for the official release. I would hate to hear how Yamaha would have got the same criticism if demo'd before even the new styles were in it, or the new SA2 sounds finalized...

Korg have DOUBLED the sound ROM. That has GOT to count for something, surely? If little of that has made it to a demo, it's obvious it is still being tweaked.

Let's just hold our horses, and perhaps cut the Korg the same slack we would cut Yamaha, eh?!
end quote"

Korg are thier own worst enemies, Yamaha would never have done a pathetic release as they did at NAMM, and have never released a board unfinished, I remember the PA2X teasers, go back into the history of the forums, I think the release was a kneejerk reaction to the positive outcomes of the T4 ie, "dont buy wait till you see ours" and then the comment "its not finished yet" looks to me its for sale in about two countries so far, or did they mean they will be upgrading along the way, as they did with the PA2x? as was commented, I hope this is a wow release for Korg. Right now even with the memory doubled it sort of sounds about the same as PA2X, as I commented before KRONOS was a new beginning, i'm thinking PA3X is more of the same so far

a release is a release. The PA3X is finished. I have no idea where people are getting the idea that it will be tweaked or new styles added. The instrument is already on sale in some countries. What we have heard so far is how the instrument sounds. If Korg had better sounds in their back pocket or better styles they would have put them in the keyboard FIRST and then demoed the hell out of them to get people intersted . Then pad out the rest of the instrument with the not so good stuff put the good stuff in at a later date as some sort of surprise !!!. Good luck if you think it will sound much different in the coming weeks/ months to what we heard already .

When the PA800 and PA2x came out, they came in for heavy criticism on sounds and styles, however after a couple of months they bought out a software upgrade which bought them to a whole new level, almost unrecognisable from the original. (How they should have been when released)

The Audya was released onto the market with great aplomb; however it wasn’t until later after a software upgrade, that it became the keyboard it should have been on release.

When the G70 was launched it was derided by everybody except die hard Roland fans, however after the V2 software upgrade it moved to a whole new level, and easily matched or bettered the rest of the boards out there, again as it should have been at launch.

Only Yamaha seems to get it virtually spot on at launch.

Therefore going by the above examples, the chances of the PA3x being anything other than an unfinished product is pretty remote, particularly has it has not been officially launched yet.

Bill

it's a quick introduction/ presentation of all the main features of product. That's how we do it in Italy...it's not a demo.

I can understand it seems a bit weird. Letting people hear the sounds would make far more sense. No one buys an expensive keyboard without hearing it in detail, first.

This kind of video usually has some other longer videos that follows it.

Yeah it would make sense to just get to the longer video without beating around the bush too much.

nothing special about it. That's the very least they had to do. I was expecting more. Their Kronos went far beyond just adding 100 mb more ROM...

I'm sure the new Pa3x release has EVERYTHING to do with reliability. The Pa2xpro had many issues with LED's burning out.

Al,
The PA2XPRO had very few issues with LED's. One shipment of bad boards caused it. They replaced everyone they knew about. Some contry's do privide better support at the distributor level so some folks were dissapointed in the response, but most country's got right on it. Korg US did a good job. My nly real cririsism is some folks had to wait far to long for parts from Korg.
My PA2XPRO has been perfect, with no HW issues at all.

It did take them too long to discover the root cause of the issues that did arise on the LED's, but then they took care of it. I'm not defending them, but it could happen (and does( to any MFG.

Hmm which countries you mean and which sound. Sofar I haven't play a Pa3X to know how he sound. Like I said before you can't judge a keyboard on those lousy videos.

I agree with people that Korg really flubbed the PA3X NAMM presentation with its less than stellar introduction of the PA3X in my opinion. Sounds are the 'number one' priority to me when it comes to deciding what keyboard to purchase. Either the PA3X demonstrators were told by Korg NOT to play its most cherished sounds (to work up slowly to a level of excitement to when it's finally released in April) and/or the PA3X is still in a beta stage and regardless of any of the sounds they did happen to play it wouldn't have made any difference - because they are ALL less than stellar sounding because of the PA3X's current beta status perhaps?? In other words, if the entire "sound engine" is messed up i.e. it's not yet up to a satisfactory level of proficiency, then less than stellar sounds are the only thing available to it right now as a result, and what we have heard so far because of its beta status and messed up (un-tuned) OS perhaps. Once the OS is "tuned" to perfection (by April???) then everybody will go ga-ga over it once the word gets out that... yeah, the PA3X really does sound good... contrary to popular opinion and what you heard from the demos at winter NAMM. lol >> Stranger things have happened although Korg should have really tried better to get the OS in shape "before" NAMM actually commenced. Hindsight is always 20/20 I guess huh?

Now if the OS on the PA3X is indeed already tuned to perfection - then NAMM is theoretically as good as its gonna get perhaps - and a lot of people left in discouragement and dismay possibly. Time will tell.

All the best,
Mike

Just because a store offers a keyboard for sale does NOT mean that they are yet shipping. AFAIK, no-one has yet received a PA3X.

They were pre-selling T4's, Wings, Audya's and everything else LONG before they started shipping. Don't jump to conclusions.

so did this guy/retailer steal a couple ? or will he have to send it back to the manufacturer to finish it when they 'officially release' the mega tweaked , yamaha T4 slayer that they have been hiding since they 'unofficially released' the instrument 4 weeks ago ?

http://www.youtube.com/user/KorgpaRo#p/u/2/_v6WQLJKaaM

Give me one credible reason that anyone thinks this keyboard has not been completed yet ? They may add additional functionality in the future or new sounds (i really hope they do after what has been shown so far) but they did this to my PA1X 3 years after i bought it. Was it incomplete when i bought it ?

I would be very very surprised if the PA3X sounds substantially different to what i have heard so far. I genuinely hope it does .

What the heck kind of video is that? They didn't even play the instrument.

I can't speak what was being said, but can anyone say whether this is anything more than the rep hauling around an unfinished beta, just as they brought one to NAMM, and letting the dealer take a peek at the beta?

If I am not mistaken, Korg's factory sounds and styles all exist in RAM, not ROM, and can be updated and added to even after release, let alone before release (not the sample data, but the programming for them). So, it's quite likely that the styles that leverage the new sounds, and possibly the new sounds themselves are still at the 'tweaking' phase, and may not even be in the list of sounds for people to try out until done to Korg's satisfaction...

Korg's are quite different to Yamaha's, whose sounds are in ROM, so the machine isn't even released until those are perfected and the data burned to ROM chips. It allows Korg's to hit the light of day while much is yet to be done. This might not be a GOOD idea, though, as few here seem to understand the difference between ROM sounds and RAM.

And, in all fairness, I really don't hear a night and day difference between the T3 and T4. It is quite obvious they have far more in common than they have differences. A few sounds, a few styles, that's about IT. If you are expecting more than this from Korg, but not from Yamaha, you have to examine your motives for being so critical when you don't get it.

If you hated the PA2, don't expect to like the PA3. Korg are not going to be dumb enough to alienate their existing customer base to please a tiny few that want it to sound like a Yamaha. They know full well THOSE customers are going to buy a Yamaha, anyway! Yamaha had enough sense to not make the T4 a radical departure from the T3. Give Korg some credit for thinking along the exact same lines...!

Musikmesse will be the debut... What, you can't wait that long?!

I wanta see it NOW!! And I'm gonna hold by breath until I get my way!

DonM

he had both the 61 and 76 key version...... If he is a rep then maybe he thought he had better haul both of them in the store just in case one sounded better than the other :-).

Leeboy the clip was just to demonstrate that the instrument is already out there complete and ready for sale apparently.

Korg showcased the PA3X at Namm in direct competition with yamaha who were the only other TOTL arranger product at the show. Or does anyone here think it was mere coincidence ? They showcased their best piano taken from the SV1 , their best EP (pretty much all through their presentations) and a violin using DNC that sounded like it was homemade compared to the yamaha violin. The other few DNC sounds that Korg have did not even compare to yamaha SA or SA2 voices and no one who doesnt have a hearing aid would argue differently . And if they did i wouldnt argue with them as they probably couldnt hear me :-). They allowed one of their distributors (you know the people that have a vested interest in actually selling the instrument )unrestricted play time on the instrument unsupervised according to the video on youtube. Would any manufacturer do that if the product was unfinished ? Or do you think Korg are so cofident that their distributors will stock a product on the basis that 'we will make it better when it is shipped to you ' Ha Ha !! If Korg had outstanding sounds comparable to yamaha then thats when they would have produced them.

They didnt .

I am a supporter of Korg but i would love to have yamaha quality sounds.I am not talking about yamaha sounds but the same attention to detail that yamaha has obviously paid to producing realistic sounds. I love the flexibilty of my Korg and the pro features of the PA series but I know I have to compromise a little on the sound for that.

I have no ulterior motive. I am a musician and i will buy the product that most meets my need. For now my PA1X does that very well. It just happens to be a product made by Korg. That doesnt prevent me from calling things as i see them. This is a discussion board. so we are discussing. There is no harm in doing that right ?

The only reason i see why people think that Korg have some ACE card up their sleave to 'tweak' the PA3X into somethimg better than what we have seen and heard already for Musikmesse ( and by the way teaking isnt gonna cut it )is because of the incredibly poor demos we have seen and heard so far.

Korg certainly have not intimated that there is anything else left to be done on the instrument other than to start shipping them out. I suspect they are waiting to see what kind of pre orders the distributors have had or how much stock they are willing to carry before they ship them out.

I would dearly love to be proven wrong but i suspect i wont be.

Bla bla bla Zzzzzzzz

hahaha ... don't encourage this madness, Don!

+1 Well said.

It IS a finished product. About the only thing Korg could do, would be to add a few more factory "bonus" styles for launch, and maybe some additonal DNC user sounds.

They will need to "hang their hat" on something like those additions, or similar (and this is just one example - make Guitar Mode a "live" tool and not just for creating styles) to engender better regard for the new flagship come MusikMesse time.

Dennis

+2

Market the Pa3X's new 'chord sequencer' to death, and Diki, and perhaps me too , will buy it!

I have yet been able to watch a SEEMLESS performance using the CS in real time during a song using styles.....I hope KORG will show it off during a real time playing a song with out any glitches.

Yes Scott I agree..I forgot that one in my post. The CS could be the ONE feature that will get the PA3 over the line...Nothing else so far in my view, has even hinted at a compelling reason to upgrade/buy as a new user.

Dennis

The thing that surprises me, and the thing that leads me to the conclusions I have made so far, is that I honestly don't recall hearing ONE new style yet... I think that pretty much most of the NAMM videos were doing older styles I had heard. Nor did I hear a BUNCH of new sounds, a few DNC, but hardly enough to warrant a doubling of the ROM. But doubled is what Korg say they have done.

Now, it's POSSIBLE that Korg hired a few demonstrators, and then completely forgot to tell them which were the new styles and sounds... But do you honestly think that is LIKELY?

Plus, anyone convinced you can get a PA3X NOW, call up one of these stores, and tell them that you want one TOMORROW. Let me know if even one is willing to ship (and you actually trust them!)...

the SV1 piano sample and the EP sample probably made up the most part of the 'Doubling of the rom'. Korg did the same thing with the triton series where they used half the rom for one decent piano. The numbers game is just that...a game. Yamaha did the same with the XF over the motif XS but you would be hard pressed to 'hear ' a difference considering all that extra memory.

Diki there were lots of new styles in the PA3X demo ,for example there was 'Tower of Power', 'Boogie guitar' ' dont go changing 'and there were a handful of DNC sounds that we have not heard before . For example ,an electric guitar DNC that was mediocre to say the least , a human soprano voice using DNC saying ahhh and a violin using DNC that sounded lame compared to the yamaha. There was also a useable sax and trumpet all using DNC . There was also was a very decent clarinet,harmonica , classical guitar and flute that sounded pretty good but not in the same league as the yammy Sa or SA2 equivalent voices.

You might have missed them as the demos themselves were so poor or you simply did not notice them as they did not stand out and blow you away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJOGzgexDMQ&feature=related
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhQ3YShxrUU&feature=related
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWklhYq4Ttk

no one is suggesting anyone in the USA or west can get PA3X now but in eastern europe i believe they are already available. For example there is talk on the Korg forum that it has been released in Turkey already.

People read this on the german forum. If you can't read German just use translation software. Jurgen one of the people working on the PA3X Musikant mentioned that the PA3X both international as the German version aren't ready yet.

They are still busy optimizing the sounds and styles so just wait for the release instead of saying all these negative things.

http://foren.musik-meyer.net/korg/index.php?t=msg&th=9371&goto=39790&#msg_39790

Did you hear these sounds and styles live or on a video?

They were heard on the video just like i hear the tyros sounds on the video and the casio sounds and the kronos sounds and the motif sounds. Where did you hear these sounds ?

It's one thing to be developing new sounds and styles vs merely 'optimizing' existing sounds and styles already in the Pa3X.


Though I wasn't there in person, I've got the original full HD uncompressed master video footage that my friend Tapas shot live 'in person', and he came to the same conclusion that sound wise, the Pa3X didn't sound much (if at all) different than the Pa2X. Short of Korg creating at least some 'new' sounds and styles, I doubt any amount of tweaking is going to dramatically change the sound that much. That said, I keep remaining hopeful because there are features like the chord sequencer and songbook that hold my interest in the Pa3x.

Then how can you give your opinion on the sounds. These videos sucks and are of very low quality. You can't judge an keyboard on these videos. The quality of the videos of the Tyros 4 are much better. You can give your opinion at the moment the videos of the PA3X have the same quality as these of Yamaha. About 2 a 3 months I think.

Well the Tyros 4 sound as the Tyros 3 with some improvements. Why judge Korg if they do the same as Yamaha. I don't care if it sound like the PA2X because I already love that sound. But now with all the extra's on the PA3x it is a bargain comparing with the Tyros 4.

FransN, all that tweaking means, is they are setting up the PA3 for the German market only...Using all the existing styles and sounds that are part of the FINISHED PA3x....

ALthough I must say the German market must be HUGE for them to do this specifically for them..

How about one setup for Oz playing ? Maybe with a wind controller that will blow the didge (or didgeridoo for our non-Oz folk )

Oh and a stubbie holder...vital for any performer out here

i gave my opinion of the yamaha sounds on the same basis by listening to youtube videos on low quality hand held Camera recordings. Sometimes they were good quality and sometimes not in terms of the method of recording. I dont see any post from you saying that i cant give opinions on the sound based upon any of these recordings and non of the yamaha fans have said my opinion is not valid.

Tellingly ,neither has ANYONE said that the sound on these poor recorings of the T4 made the T4 sound poor. Quite the contrary actually.

Its only when i made them in relation to the Korg.....

So are my comments and my freedom to express an opinion only limited to other manufacturers products so long as it isnt Korg Fransn ?

Listen Fransn, i love Korg products just like you and my opinion is my opinion just like your opinion is your opinion. The difference is that i am not restricting my judgement based upon the manufacturer i favour. Neither am i telling you that your opinion is invalid just because you use the same criteria i.e cam ocrder rrecordings to express an opinion.If you love Korg then my words wont change that will it ?

And no one will buy or choose not to buy a keyboard based upon my opinions , that would be quite foolish right. I dont think you quite get what a discussion forum is about :-) (i am just playing with you Fransn)

Go ahead and buy the PA3X if you want to.

All i know is that i have heard the T4 in the same way i hear the Pa3x and in every demo whether on cam corder,in a formal presentation, or retailers just jamming, on a busy shop floor or in peoples homes the sound is quite frankly astonishing.

I am not the only person to have reached that concusion Fransn just from youtube crappy Cam corder recordings.

I recently had a chance to demo both a T4 and a T3 for a few hours...

I personally think the upgrade from T3 to T4 in sound quallity (espescially drums and styles) is huge. Its the biggest sttep Yamaha has taken since probably PSR 7000 to PSR 8000. Next to that the SA/SA2 voices are probably the best thing availble for emulating accoustic instruments in any piece of hardware available... While i tought PA2X was a better instrument then T3 (i really love the indepth edditing of sounds in KORG arrangers), things have changed with the T4. But when you just compare tech specs There isn't much difference between T3 and T4.


Now noboddy knows how much upgrade the sounds from PA2X have had in teh PA3X, all people are saying that they haven't really heard the difference yet from the Youtube video's.

We just need to wayt to see if soundquallity of the PA3X comes close to the T4, i for one have my doubts judging the quallity what the internet has shown us so far.

Early April i will report back on this after vissiting the Musik Messe.

Thanks Bachus. A first hand, non-company report will be appreciated. See if you can also get some "hands-on time", as well as taking in the Korg demonstrations..

Not long now...

I agree with you completely, Bachus...I have played both the T3 and T4 side by side, and there is a fairly significant difference in sound quality...I had a Tyros3 here for over a year and got used to the sound...I now have the Tyros4 about 10 days, although I heard the difference almost immediately. The Tyros4 also sounds superb, right out of the box, with no tweaking.

And, you're right, looking at the specs, there doesn't appear to be much difference...but, sonically, there is...of course, this is my personal opinion having played both instruments extensively.

I also agree it was about the same significant step as it was from the PSR-7000 to PSR-8000...also a good analogy on your part, as the two instruments were so much alike cosmetically, as are Tyros3 and Tyros4.

Ian

Same for the difference between the Motif XS and XF, on paper, apart from the Flash Ram, not much appeared to different.

But sound wise, there is a world of difference.

This is what I am now starting to anticipate will be the same with the PA3. Styles, for example, will have the same name, but sound radically different....

Time will tell for sure.

Dennis

I hope KORG also builds a nice STYLE Library akin to Yamaha's premium styles ...so you can get high quality styles for all your needs also....conversion don't work too well on Korg units ....the constant searching and converting always put me off with all my Korg arrangers,....it seems right now with all the info we have at our disposal......that the Tyros 4 has it in sound & Korg has it in features...this could change when we finally hear what the Pa3x can do at Musikmesse & beyond, I for one hope the step up the game big time as I Love the Pa3x features for live performance tremendously.

Yes I know I own the PA500 Musikant.

I only mean you can't decide the quality of a keyboard by listening to lousy youtube videos. That's all. THE END

I think that, if you are intimately familiar with a piece of kit, small changes will be more exaggerated than to the less familiar listener. To be honest, as a non-Yamaha user, the differences between the T3 and T4 are FAR subtler, from what I have heard so far (including Yamaha's demos) than Ian perceives.

Now, that is NOT to say they aren't there, just that you need a fair amount of familiarity just to hear them.

I can hear differences between E80 and G70 renditions fairly well. I doubt many non-Roland users could, though. To a Korg user, to a Yamaha user, a Roland is a Roland is a Roland...

To a non-Korg user, I expect the same problems. Differences are subtle. I am reserving my final opinion on this arranger until Korg officially release it, then, being Korg and not Yamaha (!) I would expect maybe two or three years FURTHER refinement as OS upgrades and sound tweaks get released. Korg's don't get released set in stone like Yamaha's do. DNC itself was an update to an arranger that didn't have it. Sure didn't see anything LIKE that from Yamaha.

And Korg's voice editing is down to the sample itself. So, unlike some other arrangers, if the sound doesn't QUITE suit you, at least you have the opportunity to correct it, or load in someone else's edited voice.

Once your sounds and styles are in RAM rather than ROM, a lot of the rules change...

But, for anyone without a Korg right now, just as with every other arranger manufacturer (what WAS the last arranger that was a RADICAL departure from the previous model?), don't be surprised that you can't hear MUCH difference. Few of us can hear it in YOURS, either...

Although it might be difficult to pull off, considering you are living in a place that doesn't seem to cater very well to arranger buyers/users, I can almost be sure, that if you played the Tyros3 side by side with a Tyros4, you would easily pick up the significant changes in the latter, as I suspect you have a finer tuned ear than most.

Of course, unless your situation gets better, you might not ever get the opportunity.

I have played an E-80 and a G-70, but not side by side, so I can only say, that you may be right in that, being mostly a Yamaha player/user, that I would find very little differnces, because I did find very little differences.

Maybe, if I had played one after the other, I might have noticed more, particularly, if you, or another Roland aficionado, were to point out what to look for (or, in this case, to listen for).

In the Tyros3 vs Tyros4, the most significant thing I can hear, is a distinctly "sweeter" (my word for "more detailed") sound overall (especially OOTB)...also, most of the SA2 voices that were carried over, seem to have been tweaked to respond better to the player's technique and/or the SA2 buttons, so actually playing the instruments in question is important is discerning the differences.

And, that takes us back to your dilemma with no access to new TOTL arrangers...

I hope it improves, my friend.

Ian

But if you HAVE to put two arrangers side to side before the differences become apparent, well, IMO that just means that yes, the differences ARE pretty subtle.

And, if Yamaha would allow FULL access to the SA programing parameters, you wouldn't even HAVE to change to a new arranger for that particular feature...

But you know me.... I only change gear when the differences are WAY past subtle..! Night and day between the G1000 and the G70. And my NEXT arranger will need to have at least that degree of difference before I drop a perfectly good arranger to buy another!

Well, you really HAVE to put two arrangers side by side to compare them...trying to discern any differences on web demos alone, or trying to remember what one sounded like days or months after the initial playing, seems a tad inaccurate, to be kind.

Although the differences may seem subtle to you (Fran noticed a big difference), until you actually play them side by side, you are...well, you know.

Ian

How you perceive sound makes a big difference

I always found that apart from the SA2 voices, the T3 was a far inferior sounding Arranger compared to the T2, (A very compressed MP3 type sound) whereas the T4 is a worthy replacement for it, and easily blows the T3 out of the water. (Night & Day difference for me)

The E80 and G70 also have a quite large sound difference, with the E80 having a much smother (Yamaha type) sound compared to the live sound of the G70.

BTW. The PA800 is not a 61 note version of a PA2x, as it has quite a bit missing compared to the PA2x.

Bill

Sorry, Ian, but, as I said, if you HAVE to compare them side by side, the difference isn't big enough for me to care about it!

Thing that strikes me is, to be honest, what has changed between the T3 and the T4 that ISN'T simply tweaking? Tweaked sounds, tweaked styles, and a tweaked EQ system (doubt the D/A is a totally new unit), then just a FEW new sounds and styles.

If Yamaha allowed the same access to the voice programming that Korg do, it might be possible to either tweak those sounds yourself, or simply load in new sounds and styles, and get much of the T4's improvement without paying through the nose. At least with the ability to do this, owners would be able to make up their minds whether the few new sounds and the few new styles would be sufficient to make the jump all by themselves.

Yes, I realize the T4 has updated its VH, but it is still woefully short of a dedicated VH. But apart from that, what's even slightly updated?

http://pianoandsynth.com/yamaha-tyros-comparison-tyros4-v-tyros3-v-tyros2

Not a whole lot to justify another $3500 outlay, IMO, if only Yamaha would let you access the tweaking parameters that they obviously have in-house. Same sound sounds better on the T4? Well, they CERTAINLY didn't go and record new samples! If it's better, it's because of tweaks. Tweaks WE are not allowed to make.

No doubt, some MORE tweaks will be made on the T5, and then sold to us with a few more sounds and styles for $3500. In the meantime, if only Yamaha had Korg's depth of editing, all of those with T3's could sound JUST as good as a T5, especially if Yamaha sold the new SA2/3 voices as sampler loads (at a nice profit!).

Bottom line is, put a T3 style in a T4, just how different REALLY do they sound? Put a G1000 style in my G70, it's night and day. THAT'S what I'm looking for!

And here again, we come into the differing marketing angles of Yamaha and Korg. It's widely accepted that Yamaha are not interested in selling to 'tweakers'. Much easier to get their intended 'home' players to pony up the cash for an all-new, shiny, OOTB unit. Dedicated Korgies are still finding tweaks in their i30's, Pa1X's, 2X's, 800's. Horses for courses, and all that.

Went to Melb Australia on Sat and changed my T3 for a T4, I can tell you this is the big brother. The sounds are incredible, no need to tweek involved here, they have got it right, the Vocal harmonizer although major improve over prev models, has this fazing sound which I don't like, so will continue to use the Voice Live 2, The Audya will hold for sometime as it has some very great bass and drums, however the base and drums on the T4 have improved enormously, suffice that real change from performance from Audya to T4 is a reality now. Yes has less keys, but the weight reduction and the extra features make it a worthy challenger. Will hope that Audya come to the fore soon and improve a very good product once again, but it needs major ups this year to keep it in contention.

Whatever makes you happy, buddy...personally, I'd prefer to compare side by side, and actually playing the instruments instead of guessing.

You see, I am not the only person to perceive a big difference in T3 and T4, there are many, which include some who use and play other brands, as well as Yamaha...of course, these people played and compared the T3 to T4.

But, as always, your idea will work best...for you.

Ian

Heard all the Yamaha high quality demos. You saying the difference is so subtle, not even THESE should be sufficient to make it obvious? Little point to them posting them, is there?

You and I both know how many people change their arrangers, not so much because of a REAL need, but just to feel comfortable in having whatever is the newest kid on the block... You even eschewed the far more capable T3 yourself while touting the S910 as the be all and end all. And defended that choice when others asked why.

Look, I know you are having a lot of fun at my expense because there are no Tyros dealers in my area, but you yourself have made many a pronouncement without having the opportunity to play the unit yourself. As long as there are high quality demos up on the web, playing IS just listening. After all, if I play a T4 or just listen to Yamaha's official audio demos, I'll still be HEARING the same thing, won't I?

Please don't make me go back and find quote after quote where you had opinions about keyboards you haven't played. Allow others the same rights you claim for yourself.

To be honest, all I still seem to be hearing from the T4 comments is 'this is the keyboard the T3 was SUPPOSED to be', the tweaks have made a big improvement, etc., etc.. Tweaks.

Look, I'm prepared to eat my words. The Yamaha T2 site did some great advertising by playing the T1 playing a style, then that same style played on the T2. There was a sufficient improvement that it was pretty obvious. But I noticed Yamaha no longer going that route when the T3 took over from the T2, and, unless I've missed a page somewhere, the T4 from the T3. Maybe you could do the same thing..? If the engine and underlying parameters are THAT much improved, play a T3 style in a T3, and the same T3 style in the T4. Let's hear it...

Why would I tell you the difference is more than just subtle if it isn't?

It is only by playing the two that you can hear and feel the more than subtle difference, as I had already said that not only is the overall sound sweeter and more detailed, the voices, especially SA2, responded better to the player's input/technique.

Look, I'm not trying to sell you on a T4...they'll sell like hotcakes whether you think they are much better than the T3 or not...I'm just relating my own personal experience; you can choose to believe it or not. Consider also, that my observations are not isolated...several others here on SZ encountered the same things upon playing the instrument.

If you do get a chance to try both, or even just a Tyros4, then you'll understand what I'm talking about.

If not...well, life goes on.

Ian

PS...by the way, I chose the S910 over the Tyros3 mainly because the sound is sweeter to my ears...I couldn't get the Tyros3 to sound like that, although many people still chose the latter and really liked it very much...including the guy who bought my demo.

Ian,
So...now is the T4 as sweet as the S910...to your ears?

How would you make the comparison now that you have the T4?

Ian,
So...now is the T4 as sweet as the S910...to your ears?

How would you make the comparison now that you have the T4?

I liked the sound of the Tyros4 right out of the box, Lee.

Yes, it has that "sweetness" that is in the S910, but the sounds are also much richer and more robust.

The T3 was rich and robust, but it lacked the sweetness that was in the previous model, the T2.

Then again, the Tyros3 also has a loyal following who are very happy with the sound.

It just wasn't for me.

Sound is truly subjective.

For those big orchestral/synthy arrangements, the Tyros4 has no peer, in my opinion.

Ian

Diki: I could've certainly upgraded from T2 to T3 but didn't, not because of any lack of funds, but because I actually played and compared T2 & T3 'side by side' for a full day, and felt the T3 a step back sound wise from the T2.

Having now had the chance to compare 'all 3' (T2,T3,and T4), this time, I feel the newest kid on the block's a breakthrough winner because its the result of a marriage made in heaven:
T2's 'Sparkly Sweetness' + T3's 'Full Robust Richness' = Tyros 4!

Ian, Scott,
Very helpfull....
Thanks,

Look, guys, I'm not arguing that there is NO difference. All I'm saying is, just like it is sometimes hard to hear the 'improvement' between a PA2 and PA3, or a G70 and an E80 WHEN YOU DON'T REGULARLY PLAY THEM, so differences that appear night and day to Yamaha users can seem a little subtle to those not playing them all the time.

That's all...