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#316491 - 02/14/11 02:13 PM Re: Arranging for arrangers-how? [Re: tyroschuck]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Are you using music? Chords? . . . or playing "by ear"?
I assume you are using styles and playing right hand melody.
This information will help us help you.
Donm
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#316493 - 02/14/11 02:23 PM Re: Arranging for arrangers-how? [Re: DonM]
tyroschuck Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/10
Posts: 107
Loc: Downey, CA, US
I play chords and styles with left hand and melody with right hand.
I play simple classics for warm up and then enjoy melodic pieces in 4/4 or 3/4.
regards, chuck
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#316498 - 02/14/11 03:44 PM Re: Arranging for arrangers-how? [Re: tyroschuck]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14282
Loc: NW Florida
Light classical, huh? OK...

The thing about layering is, it's not REALLY a technique from normal orchestra arranging. Yes, you will find tutti passages, and often some basic doubling, but the strength of orchestral arrangement comes from when things AREN'T doubled.

For instance, a four voice chord broken up into two different instruments. A line on one section, and a counter-line on another. 'Open' or two handed chord voicings rather than close one handed ones...

A lot of basic orchestration technique doesn't lend itself to arrangers very well, because of the need to keep one hand firmly on the chord recognition side. But there ARE things you can do to expand the sound palette. One way is to use a pair of footswitches to change registration up/down while you play. As long as your arranger will change sounds without chopping off the previous sound, you can have a quick and smooth changeover between say a string/woodwind layer and a string/brass cross switch and back in the blink of a phrase. You'll need to put these Registration Up/Down commands on a footswitch, because your hands are going to be busy!

Next is using either velocity cross switches, to add certain sounds on ONLY hard hit notes (good for adding a piatti cymbal and a tympani roll, or a brass hit), or using the footpedal to either add in some winds to a string layer, or to cross fade between a string layer and a wind layer solo.

Basically, ANY technique to allow you to change sounds while still playing is good. Once that is mastered, you can think of some subtle things, like having the strings come down a BIT as you add in the winds (so things don't get too loud) or using Low velocity response for the strings (so they don't get TOO much louder when you play harder) and High vel. response for brass, so they stay almost in the background until you 'pop' a line or note out.

But you are still often faced with, for instance, string parts that span a HUGE range, usually way too much for one hand, sometimes even too much for two! If you still want your arranger's accompaniment while you play, this is often the time to enable your arranger's 'Piano Mode' which usually means it looks at the FULL keyboard for chord recognition, but won't change chords until you play a full three note chord. So you can 'pop' the three note chord, and then play two single note lines (but ultra-clean, as the slightest 'slop' into three notes will disturb the chord setting) or just the one melody (easier, as you have a one note buffer before the chord changes) and the accompaniment tracks on nicely.

If all that sounds a little complicated, and you want to stick to just a LH chord and a melody, then particularly the first few ideas is what will work best for you. Particularly using registrations to change orchestration (put the style and tempo on 'Hold' so those don't change, and you can build a set of registrations that you can freely swap between at will), and you can start to do things like strings on LWR, then strings on UPR that drop down a bit when you use the swell pedal to bring in an oboe, next to a registration that is the same, but substitutes a flute for the oboe (and maybe changes the strings from a full section to a string quartet sound), next to a registration with some french horns on the lower, and trumpets cross switched with full strings on the top, and so on, and so forth...

These techniques can go a LONG way to making a simple melody over simple chords the lush experience the same thing done with a real orchestra is. After all, much classical music isn't REALLY complicated. But varying the orchestration is what makes it glow...

Hope some of these tips help.
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#316500 - 02/14/11 04:05 PM Re: Arranging for arrangers-how? [Re: tyroschuck]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Good stuff Diki. Some arrangers, as you know, can control relative volumes of two sounds with Expression Pedal too.
DonM
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#316517 - 02/14/11 08:59 PM Re: Arranging for arrangers-how? [Re: tyroschuck]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
this isnt really a 'tell me how' topic. its definately a 'show me how topic'. Diki can you post up any clips to illustrate what you mean to help the OP out ?

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#316521 - 02/14/11 10:23 PM Re: Arranging for arrangers-how? [Re: spalding1968]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: spalding1968
this isnt really a 'tell me how' topic. its definitely a 'show me how topic'. Diki can you post up any clips to illustrate what you mean to help the OP out ?


I agree with Spalding definitly a SHOW ME to be SEEN vs a READ ME Topic for sure. Then repetition, playing level, type of arranger KB used, techniques to be used on different songs vary greatly also. Another suggestion if your using a yamaha unit is to go thru each song in the MFD....listen to all the OTS sounds setup by the factory ....and study how they are used and also you have to know what EFFECTS to use with these combinations also....but still it will give you very good references as to what works together.
You can also then take these OTS sounds from these songs and make your own user styles very easily.

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#316578 - 02/15/11 02:58 PM Re: Arranging for arrangers-how? [Re: tyroschuck]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14282
Loc: NW Florida
Here's one more tip...

Get comfortable with your Sostenuto pedal... (You know, the middle one on the piano's three pedals)

On a piano, the effect is often subtle, but used on an electronic instrument, with sustaining sounds, it is quite radical. Basically, what it does is sustain ONLY the notes that you are holding down when you press the pedal. Hold the pedal down, but now play more notes, and they don't get held.

This allows you to do all KINDS of tricks that are typical of orchestras, but hard to do on a keyboard. High 'floaters', where a string note is held on the high strings, while all kinds of moving stuff gets played underneath it, or pedal tones, where a bass note is held, and then a bunch of busy stuff is played on top of it. Also, sostenuto, THEN a change of registration allows you to play. say a nice open string voicing, hold it with the sostenuto, change to another registration, and play say a brass/winds split over it.

If your arranger has TWO footpedal inputs, you'll often find that sostenuto is one of the options for the second pedal. Use it... it is a blast!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#316583 - 02/15/11 03:17 PM Re: Arranging for arrangers-how? [Re: Diki]
tyroschuck Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/10
Posts: 107
Loc: Downey, CA, US
Diki, thanks again for your knowledge, thoughtfulness and time.
regards, chuck
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GENOS

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#316584 - 02/15/11 03:21 PM Re: Arranging for arrangers-how? [Re: tyroschuck]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14282
Loc: NW Florida
BTW, Donny, spalding (and anyone else!)...

How about actually TRYING the tips described before asking for me to go to the considerable time and effort to video or record examples for you? I think I've described it well enough for you to get the idea, and possibly, instead of spoon-feeding the concepts to you, your own experimentation with the ideas will come up with results that I haven't thought of!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#316585 - 02/15/11 03:30 PM Re: Arranging for arrangers-how? [Re: tyroschuck]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
it wasnt for my benefit Diki. I didnt post the question. If its too much effort thats cool. But its hard to teach something like this without actual examples. its like telling some one how to draw but without any pictures......

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