Very Impressive !

How the hell anyone sells KBs against the T4 is beyond me, it never fails to surprise me and the people who play them.

I have seen yet nothing to beat it for a full overall sound.

Holy crap! That guy can play!
I loved the horns..notice how they sound just right...volume slowly coming up, timbre slowly changing, just like real ones.
Yes, I notice small stuff like that...that is why the sound is the most important thing to me on a arranger.

It would be cool to seee how someone could play the Korg PA2 or PA3 the same way...and to hear how it compares. Unfortunely, the type of music you typically hear demoed on Korg is not this.

Go listen to the other 4 performaces by him....Ammazing!
It also give you a nice demo of T4 sounds....

Leeboy,

There is nothing on any other KB ever been played like this. I don't think the Pa2x will ever sound like that, that’s why you have never heard it that way. I think the T4 has the best sounds around, the Wersi Wing I don't know why Wersi bother, I would bin it now to avoid the embarrassment, where are the other demos.

Tony

Very Impressive Indeed, thanks Scott


Here's one of them...

Larry,

It just keeps getting better and better!


Tony

Tony,
Well...it may be that because a lot of PA2 players are from the Mid-East, or at least don't play the music I like all that much.
That's why I said I wish a PA2 player with that kind of talent would do some of he songs we have been hearing on T4....so we could compare a little. I know there s plenty of very talented players with Korgs!

Some of it is the sounds, but I think some is also the type people that buy T4??? It's just a feeling, I have no data to back up my comments.

I think each make of arranger does a few things exceptionally well. And a LOT of that simply comes from how well the styles are written, with perhaps a lesser degree coming from the sounds themselves.

This type of light popular classical seems to have style writers for Yamaha leading well. But, I have to say, the individual sounds themselves seem no stronger or weaker than several other arrangers. The Pirates intro strings, for instance, seemed to be lacking in 'bite' and phrase attack, it's flute sounds had a fairly pronounced electronic timbre, for me at least, and the horns... again, by themselves, I've heard others get close.

But the total PACKAGE comes from the player, and the style, IMO.

If this were a great modern jazz demo, or a rock demo, or an electronica demo, we might be saying the exact same thing about another brand. In the end, it is the CONTENT more than any factor that seems to determine how we feel about an arranger (other than owning one, which definitely clouds the issue!)

Leigh does a nice demo here, with a jazz style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpfKs4ZK7Dk

There's also a great LA Cool Swing Style that's a lot of fun to play with.

So far, in my explorations of the Tyros4, I haven't hit on any genre that I do, which includes everything except Schlager, that it doesn't cover extremely well.

The only shortcomings were the less punchy "live" drums, and this has been looked after with the new kits in the T4. It also sounds less compressed to me.

It does movie type music very well...big sweeping sounds, with big sweeping styles...sweeping you off your feet.

However, the Rock, R&B, and Dance all are all pretty damn sweepy as well...


I hope you get to play one soon...I'm pretty impressed with this one.

Aside from it not having the 76 keys that you need, I think you'll be pretty impressed too.

Ian

I'm already impressed, Ian. Don't get me wrong. But I have heard demos by talented players on many other arrangers, that if they leverage the best the arranger can do, and stay away from its weaknesses, sound just as impressive.

Korg's do great smooth jazz. Ketron's pop dance beats are hard to beat, Roland's do some pretty punchy rock, none of them are dogs, IMO!

It still comes down to the style, more than anything, I feel...

Yes, there's no doubt style does play a major part.

Still, I also assess an arranger by how much it inspires me when I play it...I think that what's impressing me most about this Tyros4.

Not just styles sounding like a particular tune, but styles that you want to try on a new tune...and, styles that by simple editing, can sound the way I want them to sound, so my playing on a Tyros4 isn't exactly like someone else on the same instrument.

I also feel that it's hard to buy a bad-sounding arranger these days, although, unless the player can use the styles, with their impressive intros and endings, to showcase their talents, not the instrument's, there can be some disappointing performances.

I don't know about you, but one of the things that kind of irritates me, is someone using a big flashy intro, and then coming in with a barely adequate and poorly phrased single note melody...a big letdown, in other words. Or a big song specific intro, and then a completely different song...maybe it might work for shock value I suppose.

I hope you get to try a Tyros4...it's in the playing of this instrument that you'll appreciate these super new SA/SA2 voices and some really kickin' styles.

I ain't been gettin' much sleep the past week or so ...I've even got up in the middle of the night to play a tune that was itchin' to be worked on...haven't done that in awhile.

Ian

Hi !!

I just loaded the Tyros 4 MovieSoundTrack.prs style into vArranger played on my Ketron SD4.

I recorded some chords, and moved thru the intros, variations Fills and ending.

Listen to the final MP3 :

http://www.varranger.com/demo/vArrangerTyros4MovieSoundTrack.mp3

It's amazing !! Yamaha styles are incredibles. Played on Ketron gear is.... what do you think...??

And that's exactly how you want a new keyboard to inspire you !!!!

I know most of you don't like this kind of music but I am more impressed with this Vangelis Chung Kuo song. Played and programmed on a keyboard that cost 6 times less then the Tyros 4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj5ljPNNNx4&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Yes, very impressive Frans...and on a PA-50 (Korg) no less. Beautiful sounds and some very cool stuff going on.

One can only begin to imagine how utterly awesome this would sound played on a Tyros4...a keyboard that costs 6 times more than the PA-50.

A more realistic comparison would be a PA3XPro and a Tyros4 playing the same tune....that I'd be anxious to hear.

Thanks for sharing that neat music...I like it!

Ian

Yes but what I want to say is that the overall sound of even a Korg PA50 is very good. And that every brand has his strong and weak points. You don't need a keyboard of $5000 to sound good.

Exactly .... it is all in how you use it. I still use a PSR-550 and it can still sound great as old as it is.

I totally agree, my friend.

I thought the PA-50 was very impressive, especially considering the price.

Here's how I see it...

I don't need a keyboard of $5000 to sound good, but I want a keyboard of $5000 because of the overall increase in sound quality, and, I want the best I can afford.

I played a PSR-S910 all last year, and it was a fine instrument, but after playing the Tyros4, I am very impressed and attracted to the extra sound quality.

I would say that sometimes the difference in price from a mid-range keyboard to a top-line keyboard is not always justified, because the increase in sound quality is not directly porportional, but, in the case of the Tyros4 vs. the PSR-S910 (or PA-50), in my opinion, it is worth the extra cost.

Having said that, if I was unable to afford a top-line instrument, or I just didn't want to spend the kind of money it takes to get one, I'd be perfectly happy playing an PSR-S910 for all my musical needs.

Ian

I concur that the overall sound of most all of today's arrangers is very good (including the PA50), but I also believe, if you can afford it, there's a substantial sound improvement, plus gaining many worthwhile new/improved features when you opt for the TOTL model. Bottom line: get the keyboard model that best meets your needs and budget.

I also want to point out that nobody on this forum residing in the US should be paying even close to $5000 dollars for either a Tyros 4 or the 61 note Korg Pa3X. Fact is, the actual 'street price' for them is more around $3400, with the difference between them relatively close. I purchased my Tyros 4 from Synthzone member dealer Frank Ventresca (AudioWorks) and recommend him highly.

That's cheap Scott. Here in the Netherlands a Tyros 4 cost 3599 Euro with speakers (is street price) thats about 4900 dollar. In comparison the PA2X cost 2700 Euro.

Hi Frans,

So, do you think the new Korg PA3Xpro will be roughly the same price as the new Tyros4 where you live?

What does a new Tyros3 (a leftover, let's say) sell for in the Netherlands?

How much is a PA2XPro?

Are you seriously considering a PA3X or PA3XPro for your next arranger?

I'm hoping they put up some more demos.

Ian

Hi Ian good morning

I think and hope the 61 keys PA3X will be about 2500 - 2600 Euro.
The PA2X Pro cost 2700 Euro. I can't find a new Tyros 3 but a used one cost 2200 Euro.

There will be no PA3X Pro but only the PA3X 61 keys and 76 keys available as International and Musikant model.

Yes I have the money for a PA3X and will go for the 61 keys. I think I will buy the international model not the musikant.

Not to put a dampener on anyone's enthusiasm, but if you have to buy a NEW, TOTL arranger to fire up your creative juices (after only one year of ownership of your previous arranger), that can get to be a very expensive habit (unless maybe you get them at cost!).

I STILL have the odd 3am session with my G70, and I've had it for nearly six years, now...!

Make the juices come from YOU rather than the gear, and you can save a boatload of money!

Diki,

Your G70 will never ever sound anything like the T4 no matter what you do with and at what time of the day you you do it. Most people would never keep a car for 6 years and certainly not a KB that's why so many T2 & T3 are on the market secondhand, I had a G70 for a short while and frankly I didn't rate it at all, but who am I but a sniveling creature of little consequence when it comes to KBs, I kneel before you. What I will say the G70 will go well with a CRT TV. It is about that era. I have a box of ECL82 if you want some.

You kept an Audya for a short time, too..!

Thing is, I don't WANT to sound like a Tyros (or I'd HAVE a Tyros!). Sorry, but this sniveling creature considers things like the number of keys that you play on more important than the sounds you play them with!

BTW, I type this looking at my beautiful Apple CRT monitor, and if I had a tube amp, I would HAPPILY take those ECL82's. Send them to Russ... at least HE knows that tubes destroy trannies for doing MUSICAL things to sound!

How fast you upgrade your arranger is more an indicator of how DISSATISFIED you are with the current one, not how happy it makes you! I kept my G1000 for over TEN years, BTW. Until another arranger comes out that utterly DESTROYS my G70 (not barely noticeable incremental upgrades), I will be playing this a long, long time. It's why I bought TWO!

Oh, and some people keep cars their entire life. But you have to be HAPPY with it to do that! Send me any old analog synths you have lying about... An obsolete OBXa or a Jupiter 8 (relics!) would be just fine with me! Got a B3, or a Suitcase 73? Maybe a Tele '56? Send ALL your old junk to me. I'll spare you any embarrassment with the neighbors about not having the newest gear on your block!

You could never do that my friend.

I am a happy camper with the Tyros4...life is very good.

BTW...creativity flowed quite well on the good old S910...much the same as it does on the Tyros4 (and on the B-3, and on the Jupiter 8 etc.).

I didn't like the Tyros3 enough to make a move from the S910...I absolutely love the Tyros4, so the decision was quite easy.

It's nice to see the G-70 still provides inspiration and creativity for you...it is a fine keyboard.

Ian

Scotty...you got it!
I don't know why people talk $4k or $5k for a T4 or a PA3X.
I paid $3,200 for my PA2XPRO, way below MSRP.
Just like if your looking for a wife or GF...you got to shop around (Martha and the Vandells's?)

Ian, my G70 doesn't provide me with inspiration and creativity. I consider it MY job to provide that for myself.

Those 3am sessions come because I have a musical idea I want to try out, not that my arranger has a style or sound I want to jam on. You can only do that until familiarity tires you of the novelty. And, by reading much on this forum, that's usually no more than a year...

Of course it's YOUR job.

That's why you are a musician.

The novelty factor varies greatly...for some it's a year, for others it's two...and then there are those who are forced to keep their current arranger because they really can't afford a new one, even though they'd love to be using the latest and greatest, and some might say, the best sounding instruments.

Why is it so important to you how long someone else keeps an arranger, or how much money they spend?

Isn't that an individual preference based on many factors, only one of which is cost?

Certainly, one hopes they need not justify buying an arranger out of sync with what time cycle you think it should be?

For most people, an arranger is not a work tool...it is a hobby.

Let's say, after the initial cost of his first arranger, Joe Blow buys a new arranger every year, and it costs him $1000 (probably less) in the difference...that's $83 and change a month, and about $20 per week.

Not bad for being able to enjoy a great hobby, and to also have the latest instrument to play.

I'd say golf would be more costly...heck, even fishing could be more money.

Ian

I have a car of 20 years old And I hope a Roland would never sound like a Tyros 4 because I like the Roland sound more.

Shop around what you like but a Tyros 4 still cost 3500 Euro in the Netherlands and that is using a currency converter about 5000 dollar.

About 2300 Euro here in US.

I need to come to the US then

I used a ratio of 1.5 Euro = $1.
I think that is close.

Wow, that song in the OP might be the best recording I've ever heard played on arranger. And that cat can play. The T4 sounds amazing for that style of music. Sheesh!

Being a golfer and a fisherman, I can readily attest to that!
However, as great as the T4 sounds, there are still sounds and styles on the old long-in-the-tooth Rolands that are better or just as well-suited to certain songs and genres--especially the drums. IN MY OPINION of course, and Diki's as well I suppose, since he has one.
I have always bought what I consider will make me sound the best, without compromising operating features and ease of transportation. And, entertaining being my occupation, cost is not a factor (it's a matter of priorities).
Right now there are so many great choices that I wish I could have Audya, T4, BK7m, Korg PA3X all in the stable, probably in that order. However I have come to realize that I can please audiences with any of them, and it doesn't matter a hill of beans to them. They want music they can recognize, dance to, sing along with and to which they can enjoy listening.
So, again, it's great to have so many choices. Lately I've been entertaining them with the lowly Roland E50 and the next step will most likely be trying the BK7m. If I run across a killer deal on a T4 who knows, and I almost certainly will always have a Ketron in the arsenal, just in case I want to sound like a REALLY live band. I'm waiting on AJ to finish his latest project. He says it will knock your socks off even farther from your feet than the current Audya.
You have to decide what suits YOU and your style and your needs, then go for it. I think it's fun anticipating what's next, like waiting to open Christmas presents is for little kids.
DonM

Hi Don,

Most people who are into playing arrangers for a hobby, and, more accurately, for pure personal entertainment consider it a reasonably priced pursuit. Most of my clients are home players, and most like to change up every few years.

Why? Simply, in most cases, it is because they can.

Just like fisherman getting the latest gear, or golfers buying the hottest driver, they simply want the best that's out there...is it a money making decision? Well, maybe with golf if you're a pro, but, in the other cases, it isn't a critical career choice...it is simply a personal one.

I'm not sure if you said you've played a Tyros4, Don...I'm thinking you haven't.

I can tell you I got a surprise, and, it's not often that happens, as I'm a bit jaded after a lot of years on these things.

It's a long time since I sat down and played well into the night purely for playing pleasure...sort of like the taxi driver who doesn't want to be near a car on his days off, I played usually with a purpose, and usually related to work.

The Tyros4 had me hooked almost immediately.

I'll be very interested in your impressions of the Tyros4, Don.

Yes, there are sounds and styles on the "long in the tooth Rolands" (and Ketron too) that suit certain things best...but, this Tyros covers more genres better than any Tyros before...really! I know you are into guitar emulations (and pretty damn good at them you are)...the guitars and the Country styles on the Tyros4 are pretty impressive...the guitars especially.

"Finger Amp"(two pickup solid body played finger picking), "Semi Acoustic", and "Single Coil Clean" are some of the SA sounds you just have to try, Don. Yes, technique is a big part of guitar emulation, but with sounds like these, you just might have a bunch of pickers looking at you as major competition.

I find the new drum kits are excellent, and the older CD quality sound is still there, but, it has a much beefier sound than before...the Tyros3 had the beefier sound, but seemed to lose the sweetness...the Tyros4 lacks neither.

So, I hope to hear your feelings about the instrument after you've had a good play, and hopefully in the near future; and, maybe this Tyros will be "the one" for you...I do know, it is for me.

Ian

Look chaps,

I am not going to lock horns with anyone on SZ about new cars or Kbs, what I hear when someone who can play, plays the T4 is different than what I have heard on any other KB played, perhaps Ians ears and mine are different, perhaps it's not our ears at all but our brains which are different, our receptors hey. But something else kicks in, how many G70, Audya, MS, (Wersi,ha,ha)have been sold WW compared to the T range, don't even try, Yamaha have something the others don't have, metal or plastic it don't mean a ting. Yamaha have the ability to make, market and sell KBs in big numbers and that is the truth, if someone can find the numbers sold can we have it.

Tony,
I agree...I am starting to realise what you just said. And it is hard to explain.

I guess one comment is: Some folks could care less about going to hear a full orchestra play some beauitful music, and some like me LOVE IT!

I think T4 is more like a full ochestra. Folks that play for a group may not like it as well as some instruments that are more dance oriented (not that Tyros can't do that).

Anyway, that's the bestI can describe it.

Ian, I have played the Tyros 4 on two occasions, each time for about two hours, thanks to Don Patterson in Lufkin, TX.
I am very impressed with it, particularly the lead sounds and the new vocal harmonizer.
Is it the best one to suit me? Not sure. I still like the more raw sound of Ketron and Roland a lot.
Drawbacks, for me: It is larger than it needs to be. The new drum kit is nice, but many of the styles still use the older ones. Yes, I know they are easily swapped.
I believe it does sound better than previous models, but does the audience know the difference? Maybe a few, but most don't care.
I don't do a lot of big production songs that sound like a 20-piece orchestra. I want to sound like a small live band or combo. I never layer more than two voices, and usually only play one lead voice at a time. I seldom use a left-hand pad-type sound. My lead voice choices are guitars, piano, saxes, organ, harmonica, accordion, fiddle, vibes, and occasionally EP, trumpet, horns, vocal and gimmick special effect sounds. All those are well-represented on Tyros, but then they are on everything, some better some worse.
As you say, it is inspiring to sit and play, but then I am still discovering things on my old keyboards that are new and inspiring, if I take the time to dig into them.
I like a lot of things Yamaha does that nobody much mentions, such as multipads, short cuts such as key combinations that instantly mute everything but drums and/or bass, direct access
shortcuts, intuitive fills and breaks, text display, ease of USB use, double push endings for ritard, and other things I'm forgetting.
I'm not a big fan of the Registration system. I prefer the Roland and Audya (not the older Ketron) systems. Roland and Korg also have better music finder (songbook) systems. (Ketron has NONE). I don't like the big, bulky optional Yamaha foot controller. It weighs as much as some keyboards. Ketron has choice of several and Roland's is also smaller and works great. I forget about Korg, but theirs is smaller too.
Probably one of the biggest drawback for me is the unorthodox size and shape, particularly for a 61-note keyboard. It's even hard to find a case that fits it. As with all of them, there are great features and drawbacks. We each must choose what suits as best.
Anyway, like I said, it's GREAT to have so many good choices now.
DonM

Good post, Don.

You're right, it is great to have so many choices.

I'm glad you got to try a Tyros4...I had no problem getting a case, I got one from a company called Levi for the Tyros3, which also fits the Tyros4 as they are basically in the same cabinet.

I'm not a fan of sounding like a 20 piece orchestra all the time either...I prefer a smaller combo type sound (up to 5-piece with maybe a string pad) for 90% of what I play...still, it is nice to be able to do other genres without feeling like something's missing.

I can't seem to find a Korg or a Ketron (even rarer) arranger anywhere in my district...they are like Yeti...the last Korg I played was an I-series, which was pretty darn good...I remember the Sax being well above average.

Thanks for your detailed reply.

Ian

Leeboy,

I will sum this up, if you want to sound good playing KB from day one then the T4 will help you do that, what ever style or sound you like, it's all in there! Its like a car with a 6 speed gearbox, there all in there somewhere, just do grind them!

So I'm not the ONLY one without an opportunity to try some of the arrangers I am prepared to listen to online to get my impression of them, then, Ian..?

I guess you aren't the only one Diki...still, I do hope you get to play the Tyros4. I really think you have the ear and musical experience to appreciate what has been done to upgrade from Tyros3.

I did play, quite extensively, the G-70/E-80/E-60/E-50/Prelude/GW-8, plus several KR-series pianos, so thankfully, I didn't have to rely on the Internet demos to make my assessment of those instruments.

So far no Korg arrangers (lots of pianos and workstations), but, you never know...someone may order one in, and if they do, I'll be notified by my buddy at the store.

Two Tyros4 clinics tomorrow, weather permitting...I must say, this is the nicest arranger I've ever used.

Ian

So...Ian, what will the clinics be like?
Basics for new owners ...or what?
Sure wish there were some around here...it would be fun to associate with other owners in person..kind of how we used to do for the Organ clubs here.
Thanks,

It's going to be hard for me to judge how improved the T4 is over the T3, as I never got to play that either!

I'm afraid from simple LISTENING, it's harder to tell than you might like, Ian. Naturally, one would expect ANY arranger to be an improvement over its previous model, but to us non-users, the issue isn't quite as black and white as those far more familiar with the sounds would feel.

The new brush kits sound great... so apparently, Yamaha ARE responding to this, albeit a tad slower than I would like. Maybe the T5 will have TEN totally new drumkits, and that issue can be put to bed once and for all..?

My major props go more to your style creators than to the instrument itself. They are an awesome bunch of musician/programmers, and every other arranger manufacturer should learn from Yamaha's example. They honestly, to my mind, make the difference between the Yamaha's and the 'also-rans' than anything sound or OS wise...

Spring is coming. May be almost time for the fourth annual Shreveport Arranger Jam. Seems we have them every couple of years. Would Dallas be better?
DonM

I know my friend, but one can only hope that the opportunity presents itself.

Yes, simple listening won't do it...playing will...the relationship of the sound and key stroke, especially SA/SA2 voices...that's where I'm detecting a difference...plus, the overall sound is both sweet and punchy...the T3 was mostly the latter, although again, many owners would not change a thing.

I was already quite happy with the drums...the new kits are just a nice perk.

I hope the chance to play both a Tyros3 and a T4 comes about for you, as much as I hope I get to play a Korg PA3X.

I agree about the styles...some of the new ones are pretty smartly programmed...I noticed that a few styles had organ pads that changed from fast to slow Leslie, seemingly at the perfect time...amazing. Upon investigation it seems it wasn't an effect, but rather the actual sound was changing from a sampled fast rotary organ to a sampled slow rotary version of the same sound...clever for sure.

Ian

If you use a velocity switched fast/slow organ sound, you can restrict ALL the velocities to just UNDER the fast vel level, then select the section you want as fast, and just add +1 to the velocities. It works great, and you don't get a big jump in volume when you do it. I've edited a few Roland styles to do that, as you can't use the VK organ section in a style ( ) and it works well...

I haven't had a great deal of time editing and assembling style with this new one, but, being able to use SA/SA2 voices in the style parts is definitely a big advantage. There aren't any velocity switched fast/slow organ sounds on the Tyros4 that I know of...but, I will say, that I am going to have a lot of fun with this instrument regarding making (assembling) my own styles.

Velocity control rotary for RH voices isn't anything I'd want either.

Ian

Not a big fan of them for playing, either, Ian... but seeing as the style section has no proper Leslie, they do in a pinch.

TBH, I'm still looking around for a discontinued Nord Electro Rack... Very disappointed they stopped making those (and haven't got a rack C1 or Electro3). Tough to beat those red devils!

Actually, the style section in the Tyros4 has several excellent Leslie sims (some even with variable overdrive/distortion)...it's just that I haven't had as much time to spend programming as I'd like.

I managed to get the styles in my S910 to do little beneficial tricks they weren't quite meant to do, so having the more extensive effects in the Tyros4 will certainly be an advantage.

Ian

Here is another version played on Americas finest http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9GSSApv568

Enjoy

Bill

Or perhaps not for much longer http://www.organforum.com/forums/showthr...ion-to-Malaysia

If true, I hope the workers get a good redundency package

Bill

OK...Realizing a big difference in the arrangments, playing abilities etc....Close your eyes...listen carefully and see which one you think sounds more like a full orchestra. Try to listen to the sound, not the playing.

Lowry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9GSSApv568

Yamaha:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DshfffItK0k&feature=related

Roland:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wnDAPcoPsk&feature=related


And T4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZXlxuSWieI&feature=player_embedded

You could probably buy 10 T4's (or more in a couple cases) for the cost of one of those monsters...even though I like them.

The PA2XPRO supports that exact function...The velocity trigger can be used as a controller for many things along with leslie speed.
Style controls is cool...you can use vel to trigger start/stop...and others very handy.

Don, I totally understand your considerations. A few weeks ago I mentioned that I ordered a new Tyros 4 and traded in my Korg PA2X-pro. Because I had two very busy weeks, I didn't have a change to post my experiences with it. To make a long story short, I returned the Tyros for a full refund the very next day after playing it for about 4 hours. Luckily they hadn't sold my PA2X yet, so we could undo the whole transaction. Talk about great service!

Why did I return it? Although I tried the T4 for almost 2 hours in the store I was very much underwhelmed when I played it at home. And yes, I have very decent active monitor speakers. The T4 has lots of great sounds and styles. The (soprano) saxes, oboe and some trumpets are better than on the Korg. But the string sounds(!), harmonica, (B3 type) organ sounds and acoustic and electric pianos definitely are not. Especially the acoustic pianos are below par considering the price, at least to my opinion. And I really missed the much discussed live sound of the Korg. I didn't realize this enough when I demoed it in the store. I did like the orchestral and freeplay styles a lot, as well as all the great factory one touch settings. But most of the other styles where definitly not better than on the Korg, a few less good, like the "unplugged" styles which are very good on the PA2X.

What stroke me the most about the Tyros' appearance was it's very different proportions. As you mentioned it has a very unortodox shape, that I just did not notice that much until I had it at home, sitting in the same room as my PA2X. I know sound is most important, but this was a big step back from the sleek PA2X which I still consider the best looking arranger at the moment.

I know I must sound like spoiled child, but I can perhaps explain it best by saying that I realised what a great sounding keyboard the PA2X actually still is. And how nice those bigger 76 semi weighted keys are to play. This whole thing was a lesson in appreciating what you have. luckily for me not an expensive lesson, but still...

Don't get me wrong, I think it is great that so may people have so much fun with their Tyros 4. It's just not for me as it turned out.