Al,
may I ask you what you didn't like about the Audya 4 and, more in general, your overall impression about it?
Thanks.

HI Andrea,

I liked the Live sound of the drums, the piano, organs, Rhodes, and Sax's were very good. I liked thed features geared to the performer like Pianist, Bass only, etc.

The big killer for me was reliability. I went through two units and I did not trust the unit on a live gig. I did not like the Style Creation tools. I didn't think there were enough styles in certain categories. Overall they keyboard felt like it wasn't finished. Manual was horrible, fit and finish was flimsy, screen flickered, loose connections, Operating system was kind of funky. Many users here and on other forums are actually opening up their Ketrons and fixing them themselves; replacing boards, tightening wires! On a $4000 keyboard???? Yikes!!!!

Some of the voices did not meet with today's high standards.

I think Ketron is on to something with the Audio Drums, but their execution is not very good. The support was terrible. When I called for help, I was told I could only get help on Monday's and Tuesdays on certain hours????? No distributor support Forum here in the US, no 1-800 toll free support number, heck there isn't even a registration process??????


--- Please don't bash, this is all My Opinion!!!

I haven't played or heard one live but I would really hesitate to spend 4K on an arranger for studio stuff. If you were gigging all the time and making good money- yes, I'd think it would worth it. I would also think for studio work you want invest to in software, computer, great mics, and a great workstation. In my oppinion arrangers are for live work, having fun at home, or "stratch pad" to work out ideas in the studio.

Thank you Al,
I had a feeling it could something like that.
What a pity on Ketron's part...

i think montunoman is right. If you simply want to use the instrument in the studio , £4000 on on piece of equipment is incredibly excessive. This kind of arranger is designed to make music live . You can achieve the same or similar results in the studio for a 5th of the cost and a few hours learning he technical skill to use software.

$4000 spent on the RIGHT studio gear is an investment...

Wow... Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond... Think I am more confused now.
First off let me tell you what I use the keyboard for. I use it to compose; I am not a slick musician, or even a musician like most of you folks who can do live gigs. I do pretty well on filling in the leads and what not, but I rely on the board and style to create a song. I never know what I'm going to write till I fiddle with some styles and it comes out. Heck my best hit Island Love was done on a 3000...

I have messed with the software and what not; I shelled out $500 for Sonar, a new computer new sound card and pulled out my hair for 6 months. I ended up going back to my old recording gear.

I do not have the time since I work about 50,60 hours a week at the real job and this is a nice hobby that pays a little bit of $...

I'm thinking I try used tyros 4, sell the s910 and at the end of the month see how many coins are left over and maybe add an XF.

The problem with workstations and Software is the time it takes to learn it all which I do not have. As far as the tyros demo's my socks were not blow off as everything posted like to use the vocal sounds of the unit.

I'm looking for, Rock, Pop and Latin and the rest I will not use very much....

Hey, once again thanks for the input and it's much appreciated!

then we are similar in some respects. I am a composer (not hobbyst, though) and I too hate Sonar, Cubase etc, but I have to use it too because of my sample libraries. However, I compose with the Tyros, not the computer....like you, I used to tear my hair off and went back to old ways : keyboard workstation.

As for all the rest, it's your money....

Hi Beachbum

I would also recommend the software route, however the software you choose must be designed for Live Play (Sonar & Cubase are good for production but are not ideal for spontaneity, hence you pulling your hair out)
My recommendation if you wish to include everything in the software would be Albeton Live http://www.ableton.com/live-8 which is designed for your type of work. (You can also download a free trial to see how you get on)

Another option is to use your computer as a Host to control sound selection, (Including the internal sounds of your 910) so it effectively becomes a Midi Expander/controller.
NOTE: Yamaha Arrangers are brilliant as a module. (Pretty much everything can be accessed)
My recommendation here would be Kore 2 http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/producer/kore-2/?src=navi for the following reasons.

1. Sound selection (Including the internal sounds of the 910) is similar to most arranger keyboards
2. It has Performance Pre-sets (Just like the Total Pre-sets on the 910) which you can set up as you would on the 910.
3. It has over 500 sounds (5GB) of its own, and has many option sound packs available
4. It will host 3rd party VSTi, with sound selection being the same as if they were part of Kore 2
5. It is very resource efficient, as it is designed for live play
6. It comes with its own hardware controller, with mappings for most popular VSTi
7. A software trial is available so that you can see how you get on with it
NOTE: You will need your 910 Midi Manual to identify channels and voice bank and program changes (These can be stored and named in Kore 2 as you use them, thus they become part of Kore 2)

Additionally if you can find a used Wersi Abacus/Ikarus with (Or add) the OAA, you can play all Yamaha styles up to T2 without converting, and if you don’t like the sounds Wersi have programed for the styles you can use the sounds of the 910 via Midi, this is because all the Yamaha style controls are available in the OAA, and because the styles are not converted the outputs will be a 100% match for the Yamaha mapping, including Megavoices
NOTE: The Wersi can also load and play Akai samples and host VSTi, so without any additional components (Just Midi and sound connections to the 910) you have instant access to a wealth of sounds.

Hope this helps

Bill

I think it help to distinguish between the two stages of songwriting...

First is actually writing the song. Having an arranger with a wide selection of inspiring styles is your main need here, and simple operation.

BUT... the next stage is making the demo (if you are making a demo to pitch to the biz). This is the area where deciding whether the arranger ALONE is going to be sufficient to make your song stand out from the pack. Knowing what your clients listen to from others, how 'slick' they want the demos, how finished they want the arrangement (be careful... often a fully realized arrangement gets in the way of appreciating a good song) is going to be probably where you decide whether to stick with the S910, and go the WS/software route, or whether blowing most of your budget on a better arranger is the best move.

TBH, there's a certain 'blandness' about arranger demos compared to demos played by live musicians or those done by pro keyboard players using WS's, at least at the upper end of the pitching scale. And, not to put Yamaha's down, but they come in at the slicker end of even the arranger sliding scale (that's a GOOD thing if you ARE going for 'slick'!). But only YOU know who your competition is, and what level they work at. It may be a PITA to learn how to effectively substitute WS or VSTi sounds for arranger Parts, but if that's what it takes, that's what it takes.

IMO, I would be wary of thinking that a better arranger is a magic bullet. As many (including Ian, for so long!) have pointed out, an S910 is a VERY close substitute for a Tyros. Personally, in your situation, I would perhaps look at blowing my budget on more MOTL arrangers from other manufacturers. Each one has something they do BEST. Each one has sounds that theirs are the best, each one has style areas they excel at. Plus, at the end of the day, you can hook them all up to your DAW on separate MIDI ports, and have a MUCH wider selection of sounds to substitute for whatever is weakest in the arranger you made the core demo on.

But knowing what and who you are up against is 90% of the battle. If you can't match them for production values, perhaps it is time to go the other way? Many a song has been sold with nothing more than an acoustic piano or guitar backing and one vocal. If it's a great song, it sounds stronger (and more versatile) like that than a fully realized demo...