There was a lot of controversy about the "Live Concert Grand Piano" when the T3 came out. I didn't always agree with the criticism but after playing it now for almost 2 years and comparing it to the other samples on the T3 I have come to this very subjective conclusion:

"Live Concert Grand": Too bright, light and lacking warmth in the critical middle range despite many attempts at customizing the sample. Sounds best with brightness slightly reduced, a little more reverb and depth ( not much though ) and the modulation wheel pushed slightly forward to damp the sound.

"Live Grand and Warm Grand": These samples are warmer, less ringing in the middle but to me a little over damped and not very open even with reverb added. These I dislike even more than the "Live Concert Grand" (I know many love these but they just don't do it for me)

"Grand Piano": With a slight increase to depth and reverb this is IMHO the best piano voice especially when played full across the entire keyboard or when layered with "Live Strings" ( which I consider the best string sample If you add some reverb and reduce the volume. It really sounds nice

The "POP Piano" is also very nice but again for me not quite as open and warm as the the "Grand Piano". So I'd rate them:

Grand Piano
Pop Piano
Live Concert Grand
Live Grand
Warm Grand

I know piano sound is very subjective but I wanted pass on my specific experiences with Tyros 3. Of course the amps, speakers and in general your sound system will have a significant effect on how the piano voice is reproduced. Piano is one of the most difficult instruments to reproduce. Also from samples I have heard it does not appear that the T4 "Live Concert Grand" overall sound has changed except that SA 2 type nuances have been added. Let me know what you think and what your experiences have been with Tyros Pianos.

joesax

I have the Tyros 2 and really do not like any of the pianos. The least offensive is the "warm piano"

Have either of you thought about using the keyboard's onboard Sound Creator program and editing the piano voice until it sounds the way you wish? It's really not at all difficult.

Cheers,

Gary

Point well taken travlin' easy. I just want stuff to sound good out of the box. I want to sit down and play music; not tweek and mess around with sound creator programs. I well look into it though.

Gary is Spot on....out of the box just doesn't cut it at all..

You can't create warmth where there isn't any without taking brilliance away from where you DO want it.

I'm afraid, in basic terms, the piano sound is either good at virtually the naked sample level, or it isn't. You can't EQ a bad real piano into a good one.

My primary problem I have had with almost ALL Yamaha digital pianos (including some very high end CVP's. etc.) is that the center section lacks warmth at low velocities. Hammer the snot out of them, and they sound great... but play pp passages, or ppp, and I get the impression that rather than listening to a piano right in front of me, played lightly, I am listening to a piano played harder than that, but pushed back a few feet. The tone doesn't 'sing', it decays too quickly at those low velocities.

I regularly play a well maintained, fairly new Yamaha CIIIF at the studio, so I am trying to be fair and balanced, here. Pounded, yes, it cuts like a knife, and works wonderfully well for pop and rock, but back off, and a warmth I never hear from Yamaha's sampled stuff comes out, a delicious blanket of musical glue, that helps tie quiet and loud sections together.

Sampling a piano is possibly the hardest thing to get right. I am surprised that Yamaha, who make some of the finest real pianos, have a problem capturing it adequately.

Making a great acoustic piano and sampling a piano have absolutely nothing to do with eachother. Two completely different technologies that have nothing in common other than they involve the sound of a piano.

they seem to do it very well on their synth line.

they just leave it really weak on the Arrangers and the digital pianos. same goes for the drums...

try the S6 Concert Grand or the S90 Piano on the Motif XF, leaps and bounds ahead of the T4 pianos.

Yes Nick, I totally agree.

I sometimes suspect this is more to do with the arranger having more sounds going whilst the player is playing a piano patch, hence the "thinning" out in the mid-range. Whereas on the Motif's for example, I would guess that the piano sound is mostly played by itself so requires a more robust sample.

Horses for courses I guess

Dennis

Certainly there's a personal aspect to piano sounds that will have very few of us agreeing on what works for us.

I prefer Yamaha's nicely balanced and richly harmonic piano sounds to the wooliness of what's on other arrangers/digital pianos, and I'm very pleased with how they (Yamaha), not only stand on their own for solo work, but also sit perfectly in a mix for combo playing, or for use in an arranger.

Not having played Korg's top and mid line PA-series, I can't compare their sound with what I love in the Yamaha instruments, but I have spent considerable time on the other major brands, and they just don't have anything to compare.

As far as "favorite" pianos on the Yamaha Tyros-series, my "go-to" piano is still, and probably always will be, the Live!Grand Piano. Terrific punch, and a nice long decay, and yet lots of warmth for ballads or jazz...plus, a little tweak on the filter brightness knob (-12)and there's even more delicious warmth if you want it.

The Live! Concert Grand Piano controversy wasn't surprising to me, as it is perhaps my least favorite piano sound on the Tyros3 and Tyros4...in fact, on the latter, it isn't even included in the "Main" panel pianos, having been bumped to the Legacy folder, and replaced by the new Super Articulation Concert Grand, a substantially better voice (in my opinion), but, still not as useful, or as "good" sounding as my favorite, Live! Grand Piano.

I'm also very pleased with Super Articulation Pop Grand, SA Ambient Piano, SA Cocktail Piano, and SA Piano Orchestra.

"Piano sound" discussions are always a series of posts containing very personal ideas (and ideals) of what constitutes a "great" piano sound for each of us...what pleases my ear, may not work for someone else, and what sounds like steel wooliness to me, may be someone else's concept of a perfect tone.

It's simple...choose what suits you...I know I did, and I'm totally content with my choice. I like the Tyros3/4's (and the CVP's) pianos even better than what's on the Motif line, and since they (the latter) seem to be working for many great players like Stevie Wonder, and Doobie Brother, Mike McDonald, I think I'm in fine company.

Ian