Hi Folks

Any recommendations for a good powerful keyboard combo amp for my G70. I am using a Yamaha 1000w 12 channel desk with 2 x 500w Peavey speakers at present, good sound but a lot of gear to carry with my beloved G70 and not too much space to store in my house. I do split bass on certain gigs with a drummer so I need a nice fat bass sound as well as good tops.
I have been reading reviews on the Roland KC 550, spec looks good but i dont know too much about it.

Any thoughts?

I moved a copy of this post to http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/37/1/General_Arranger_Keyboard_Foru where you may get more results.

I use a Traynor K4 playing in the classic rock band I am in ( and I am very happy with that ) though that probably does not pump enough bottom end for a full arranger keyboard accompaniment. Because I play with live bass and drums that is not a concern for me. In fact it suits me better as it doesn't conflict with the bass frequencies from the bass guitar. Before when I used a powered box with a 15" speaker I would have to severely cut the bass frequencies to make it sit nicely with the band. The K4 has a separate summed mono output that can be used to feed a sub woofer if needed.

I just like the midrange and highs on the K4 so much better than the powered box I used to use.

Nick the Rolands are pretty good..Bit pricey but they are good combo amps. Forget Motion Sound, no bottom end at volumes above about 5 on the dial.

Its the KC series I am referring to. I had the KC880 for a while, AWESOME keyboard amp, stereo too (true stereo as in TWO speakers). But heavy. It is on wheels, but as you are younger than me you can probably manage the weight.

At the moment I use a pair of QSC K10s and a Peavey 15 powered sub, so don't discount using a pair of powered boxes either, whatever brand.

They can be very versatile and are easier to get up "off the floor"

Dennis

Once you get into doing LH bass with live drummers, your needs for a keyboard rig go up dramatically. Especially if you are trying to do LH bass AND keyboard patches, you are asking a LOT of any combo amp to do that and keep both ends of the spectrum nice and clean.

To be honest, most of the time I see people doing this on a full time basis, they use a separate small bass combo amp JUST for the bass (and stick it near the drummer, they like that!) and then a full range rig like you already have for the key sounds. Otherwise, the drummer has to deal with your keyboard sounds blasting him as much as the bass (and they DON'T like that!).

If your band already has good monitors, and sufficient monitor sends so the drummer gets a different mix from everyone else, you can skip this part... but split the bass off to a separate output if you can, no matter WHAT you use.

Oh, and BTW, if you don't already have either the SR-G01 or SRX-07 expansion cards, GET ONE! They have HUGELY improved bass sounds over the stock electric basses. Worth every penny.

I'm with Nigel regarding the Traynor K4 Combo Amp...it works best in a "combo".

A great "keyboard" amp to be sure, but not for arrangers...just not enough low end, especially for reproducing bass sounds, whether played manually by the left hand, or by the auto-accompaniment.

I've had great success with, and highly recommend, the Yamaha Stagepas 500...relatively light, easy to transport. and reasonably priced.

Ian

Diki, I do have the SRX-07 expansion and yes great basses. I am leaning towards the Roland KC550 Kb amp mainly for reliability, I came across some good

reviews on the Behringer K3000FX Ultratone amp but also bad ones particularly regarding reliabily. The Behringer has a nice design and has lots

of nice features, designed I believe by the Germans but poorly built by the Chinese,pity.

Nick

I have a pair of Crate KX 220's I got for my Hammond XK3/w bass pedals. Never really had to use both with the stereo link function, one can really crank out sound including bass. Crate later changed the name to the KXB220 to include bass players. Same company thats makes the famous Ampeg bass amps. They are no longer made but you can find them for around $300 used. New they were over $600. Heavy but very compact and will accept a stereo signal to send out to the main PA if you are in that situation. Four channels with a dedicated mic channel with reverb ( cheesy spring reverb but it saves bringing a separate unit) so its works well for the OMB thing. It also has a speaker out which will push two more 8 ohm speakers or a 4 ohm bass cabinet for really big bass. And they are built very well, no problems except one loose input jack after lots of gigs. Beware of Behringer reliability. Two repair shops near me won't even try to fix them. They're cheap but its buy-play -and throw away.

Good luck

Bill in NJ

"Beware of Behringer reliability. Two repair shops near me won't even try to fix them. They're cheap but its buy-play -and throw away."

I agree with this assessment of Behringer's products from my experiences with NOT their amps but their mixers.

Ron

Well, I guess I'm going to be the one to contradict others views on Behringer. I have a K1800FX and love it. I also have a JBL EON-15G2, a pair of LEM D400's and a Leslie 3300, 122 and 145. Until recently I had a Traynor K4. I sold it because of the absence of any low end to speak of, non-existent stereo imaging due in part to both left and right speakers being mounted on the same plane instead of being angled away from each other and the fact that I believe the crossover point is set to low sending too much mid to low-midrange signal to the summed woofer. Other than that it is a great amp; I used it along with a Motion Sound SW15 powered sub, which I still have. Prior to the Traynor K4 I had a Motion Sound KP200S which had better stereo separation than the K4 but didn't compare in features and sound.

Last year I needed a smaller amp for various gigs. I ended up with the Behringer after comparing it to the offerings of Roland, Hartke and Peavey. The K1800FX had better features than the others, cost less and sounded just as good (they all sounded a little different from each other side by side but all sounded good). I have used the K1800FX quite a bit and have never had a problem with it. I'm glad I chose the Behringer.

added- If you are considering the KC550 from Roland, check out the Behringer k3000FX. I have used bass pedals with my K1800FX and it worked pretty well, but the extra power and 15" woofer of the K3000FX would pump out more than enough bass.

Hey Dave, no offense and if Behringer works for you then thats great. I'm just repeating what two very reputable shops told me about them. They both said stay away or be prepared to trash it when it goes down. www.Ivorysoundworks.com and Central Jersey music. The circut boards and such are put together with such tight tolerances and somewhat cheap parts that they are too time consuming to try to dissasemble and repair. And it is very difficult and slow for them to get parts from that company. They're words not mine. Behringer can offer more bells and whistles for a reason. They're specs are very exaggerated too. I checked out their small powered mixer which claims something like 180 watts. If you investigate you find it is only really 60 watts at 8 ohms. Must be 180 for a split second burst.
After all is said I still bring some kind of backup system no matter what I'm doing. Belt and suspenders mentality HA!

Bill in NJ

check out the Behringer k3000FX. I have used bass pedals with my K1800FX and it worked pretty well, but the extra power and 15" woofer of the K3000FX would pump out more than enough bass. [/quote]

Thanks David,

Do you know there is a bad guy inside me saying " go for that Behringer K3000Fx and follow your dream keyboard amp.

Have a look at the positive reviews on this site below and then read the bad ones where the amp gave up in the middle of a gig, I dont think I can take that chance, as much as I'd like to.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHK3000FX

Hi Bill,

I understand what the service centers are saying, however, the very same can be said about other brands as well. A couple of potentiometers went out on the KP200S when I had it, no fault of mine, they just broke (cheap parts maybe? I don't know). Anyway, I had a heck of a time taking the thing apart to replace those two pots. And I repaired a friends KC350 a while ago because one of the RCA input jacks was intermittent. Not exactly a robust design inside.

One has to wonder why service people don't like certain brands. Could one possible reason be that a given brand doesn't present the potential profit in repairs as much as other brands? Just a thought.

As for the 180 watts output powered mixer; that is peak power at 4 ohms as per the spec sheet. I agree that it is stretching the truth a bit by using peak power as the advertised power output rating. But I can think of many companies that do similar things with their specs by fudging this or that. That being said, I don't really care or pay attention to power ratings. The 40 watt power amp in my Leslie 122 will slice your head off if asked. Point being, power amp output rating is only part of the equation. Just as important is the design of that power amp, as well as the design of the speaker(s) and the cabinet they are housed in. So I would rather just rely on my ears as to how a particular amp/speaker combination sounds as opposed to being inappropriately swayed by fudged specs.

So, back to the OP's question, I don't think there is a best combo amp for anything. It all depends on what features fill your particular needs. For me the K1800FX works just fine. And I'll stand behind my suggestion to take a close look at the K3000FX in comparison to the KC550.

Dave

P.S. I always wear a belt, but I should take after you and start with suspenders as well.

Yes, but doesn't the fact that 79 people rated this amp at zzounds and it has a 9 out of 10 stars mean something? Like way more people like it than have had problems with it?

Buy it from Guitar Center and with the money saved just pay for the extended warranty coverage just in case it goes down a year or two later so they replace it.

Nigel

I've gotta answer that one. Sweetwater, whom I think, again my opinion, is a very reputable online dealer offers a 2 year warranty on all the stuff they sell and a while back while shopping that small Behringer mixer was told that they won't deal with Behringer anymore, too many problems.
That being said, go for what floats your boat and again, just have a backup. I reguaraly travel with one KX220, which in itself can be a whole PA/keyboard system, a Yamaha powered mixer, and one, but usually two PA speakers. I can bring in whatever I feel like for the gig and always have backup.

Good luck with everyones choices. I'm currently thinking about a portable PA so I may start a thread on that. JBL just brought out a new one that is super light.

Bill in NJ

I have to agree with Bill, I've had really good experience with all the Behringer gear I've owned. I've had 3 or 4 unpowered mixers. All but one are gone, but they are still working great for their new owners. Semilive has one of them.
I also had two powered speakers and they also were great. They are both still in use by two different owners, both establishments where I work from time to time.
At the price point on some of the stuff, I might consider just writing it off if it ever broke, but then that hasn't happened so it's a moot point.
I have also heard from dealers about reliability problems, but I sort of wonder if there are other reasons involved, like lack of profit margin. I'm guessing it would be hard to justify making whatever profit is involved on a mixer that sells for less than a hundred dollars, when you could sell a better advertised brand and make several times as much.
DonM

What he said.

If you are using it for bass, it pretty much HAS to have a 15"...

True. Which is why I still hang on to the Motion Sound powered sub. For small gigs including a bass player, all I need is the K1800FX. But on occasions were I am responsible for holding down the bass I can bring the sub and use the K1800FX's sub output.

I'm tellin'ya guys, Behringer stuff is just fine. I really think that most of those people who talk bad about the brand are just repeating what they heard and have no first hand experience. That is not to say that no one has ever had a problem with a piece of Behringer equipment. But no brand exists that can tout a 0% failure rate.

Yes, I concur with William, I have used many bits of Behringer kit ever since they first came on the market, had one issue with a power capacitor on one of the older model keyboard amps.

It was fixed for free within 10 days!!

Other than that, nothing. All good.

What I have noticed since Behringer was released, is a non-stop concerted "bashing" campaign, by those with vested interests in other stock lines and manufacturers. And this continues even to this day.

Just because so-called experts, or someone "in the biz" says so does not necessarily make it so. One must always consider "WHO" is paying their wages, even if not a declared source.

When you consider the millions of items Behringer sell around the world, I would suggest that their failure rate is not that much higher than some of the more "industry accepted" brands.

I have had much more trouble with Alesis and M-Audio gear than Behringer.

Dennis

I wish that I still had the Polytone 102 that I used for almost 20 years. Great fidelity with twin 12"s. Never should have sold it. That said, on solo gigs, I use a Behringer KX1200 keyboard amp with a 15", an 8", and a horn. No problems during the 4 years I've had it. No hum, hiss, or odd sounds. On duo gigs with my wife on guitar, we run everything through a Behringer 1622 mixer into a Crown head and 4 Behringer cabinets (2-e1220 and 2-B212). Behringer is getting the same bad rap that Peavey got when his amps started popping up in the late 1960's. Fender and Gibson dealers all said they were trash. And from my experience, any brand of electronic equipment can have unexpected problems. That's why it's good to purchase new with a warranty.

I also prefer my old sound system...I use my 25 plus year old Roland Cube 100's ..3 way with 15"..I would not swap them for anything else on the market...I have 4 units currently, including a pair of mint condition amps...on standby..if my other well maintained ..well used 100's ever go down...still work as they did when I bought them new in 1985..

I use the Edirol digital mixer with room control with the Cubes and get unsurpassed results..Big sound from my underated BIG guns..

Roland Cubes, amongst the best ever small amps made..

Dennis

Primarily, the main problem with Behringer's also affects much Mackie and similar budget gear... They use a LOT of surface mounted components, especially knobs, switches and sliders, so when something goes bad, it's often the entire board that needs replacing rather than the ONE thing that went wrong. The other problem with surface mounted componentry is that impacts to knobs and sliders get transmitted DIRECTLY to often the main board... Not good!

But it's a LOT cheaper to make, so swings and roundabouts, I suppose...

Thanks for the first hand info Dave. Coming from you I would certainly consider Behringer amps now.

LMFAO

Quick story-
One night after a gig, while rolling my Leslie back into my house with my Behringer K1800FX sitting on top, one of the wheels on the Leslie caught a throw rug and started to tip. I grabbed the handle of the Leslie and pulled it back up but the keyboard amp fell off and landed on the floor. On its way down, it flipped over and two of the knobs got sheered off from hitting a keyboard case. Turns out the potentiometers are mounted to the faceplate with washers and nuts. So they work just as good as they did before the drop except that I have to use the tip of my finger to turn them instead of grabbing a knob. And one of the pots that got damaged is a combination rotary and momentary switch type. I was throughly impressed with the K1800FX's rugged design.

Good story, Dave. Mind you, there's as much Behringer gear with controls and the like directly soldered to the motherboard as isn't.

This particular amp (and many others) yes, physically, the knobs HAVE to be away from the mainboard. But a lot of B's effects units, rack processors and small gear of all kinds uses surface mounted controls.

Box of chocolates indeed...!

I see what you're saying. I'm sure the same can be said about most other brands as well though, don't you think?

Actually, look above (OK, previous page!), and you'll see I DID say it...

Why yes you did, sorry.

A JazzKat Fat Cat. 200 watts. A little pricey, ($1000.00 plus) and only a 12. I use it on keyboard/vocal, guitar/vocal and arranger/vocal jobs.

It's currently my "go to" amp for almost everything.


Check them out.


R.
It's also great for bass for small jobs.

That looks very nice Russ. It reminds me a bit of the Traynor K4 I use for keyboards that can double as a guitar amp because it has an AX7 tube on one of the channels that can be turned on/off and even has an overdrive control to get some grit if needed. Actually I always run my Motif 6 through the tube channel as it just seems to give it more bite ... I always love those darned tubes.

Me, too, Nigel! Tubes RULE! Just rebuilt a little 30's no name amplifier that used to be sold via magazines and radio with a lap steel, books, etc. for $29.95.

I bought the combination for my work at the University. It is an early example of infomercials. A marketing company would provide the content to stations (radio, obviously-then TV in the 50's) no charge, which was a 1/2 hour of Hawaiian music, dancers, etc. All the commercials were in place for the steel combo, with space for two sold by the station. The marketing company simply contracted for the manufacturing of, say 100,000 units and used a name they came up with.

From a media standpoint, the two of these sets I have are valuable.

For an old "picker and grinner", they're priceless!


Ever play lap steel?

Russ

Nigel and others: I met the JazzKat guys at Summer NAMM 2009, where they gave me a pro deal on the original JazzKat-90 watts, cool as hell for puree jazz guitar. Later, they cut me another unbelievalbe deal on the FatKat.


At that time, I met a little "guitar powerhouse" guy named Frankie Cicala. There is a very rough YouTube piece from Winter NAMM 2009 of Frankie, Bernard Purdie, Stevie Wonder's piano player and others doing a version of Europa.

It was posted on the JazzKat site, but I think that Frankie worked the Jazzkat booth that year but never signed an endorsement deal. It is bittersweet to me, because a possible relationship with the company disappeared shortly thereafter when I got hurt.

Tony M and I discussed this piece several years ago. It's rough as hell (bad footage AND SOUND) but What PLAYERS!

It was a loosely organized JazzKat sponsored booth...spontaneous and GREAT!

The tune was good anyway, but these guys put their own stamp on it which is, for me, a highlight of the music I've found in recent times, and a perfect example of the "off the cuff", unspoken interaction between players I find so satisfying.

Last time I found it, I searched YouTube-Jazzkat, Frankie Cicala Europa. I'll look for it later (on a film deadline ),
but man, is it a little gem!

Watch for Frankie, folks...he's a GEM of a player!

Russ

Those are the little basic 90 watters-no tube pre-amp-8" speaker. I use mine all the time for guitar singles-all instrumental. The FatKat is 200 Watts, two channel, on-board effects, 12' speaker, tube pre-amp-voiced for bass and keys, with XLR connection and extension speaker jack.


This is a good find, Donny, but I really want to locate the Europa cut from 2009 summer NAMM.

It's truely a musical find, bad quality recording and all.

Look at Jazz Kat folks. Great stuff! Mine is used 5 jobs a week on bass, arranger and guitar-not a hitch for over 2 years.


Plus, they're US made by a company owned by musicians. Some of the people came from Polytone, I believe-another favorite of "Jazzers".


R.

THANKS SO MUCH, Donny! This is why I play! I would have given ANYTHING to be on that bandstand with those guys.

It's the essence of taking an OK tune and making it a great one...a collaborative effort, without a word being spoken. Notice the exchanged looks...the playing "off of" each other?

It's this kind of fresh, spontaneous and "off the cuff" interaction between players of equal abilities that defines what music is all about for me.

I started doing Europa in an extended version (about 5 minutes) with my "family" trio, with me playing piano, XB-2 and guitar. Of course, it's only appropriate for outdoor festivals and hard-line jazz events.

I listened to this 3 times just now.

I'm a happy camper!

Russ

Russ ....it was jmy pleasure to make your day ....
glad you enjoyed it!!

I love the Barbetta Sona 41 series. I have the 41C with 2- 10" speakers and the bass is huge. And at under 40 lbs it is a better deal than the heavy Rolands. I use it for restaurants and smaller single gigs. When I do larger rooms or play with the band , I use EV sb122 passive subs and ZX1 satellites. Power amp in my rack. Or you can get sb2a powered subs from EV and eliminate the power amps. Thunderous bass and lightweight. My subs are only 36 lbs and the powered ones are only 3 or 4 more. The satellites are 16 lbs ea.

Hi Folks

An update on my quest for a good keyboard amp for my G70.

Since I last talked on the forum on this subject I invested

in a bass amp for my split bass set up. I bought a Laney

Richter 4, bass amp (British assembled I believe). I have to say

this is great amp, 160 watts, 15 inch speaker, equaliser, very

compact not too heavy and a lovely solid bass sound. So good I

am using it with my G70 arranger and it sounds great on it's

own.

What am I doing here again you might ask?

Well I'm thinking of buying a Laney keyboard amp AH200 as

well and use my Richter for bass on big gigs It's much the

same 160W, 15' speaker but lots of other features.

My question: is anyone on this forum using this amp, AH200.

Would like to get you opinion on it.


http://www.laney.co.uk/products.php