http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfB6motlhQY

Kind Regards

Col

Wow ... dig that soprano at the end!
She's wailin!!!

The Bossa Nova at 2:33 sounds sooooo good!!

that new concert DNC Guitar is superb!!

great demo - and finally in good audio quality.
nice find Col

Nick

YES! This is more like it. The true colours are showing now. Ditto to the above comments, and how about that touch on the pitch ribbon on the clarinet at 3:30. I'd almost forgotten how good a pitch ribbon could be. Last time I had one of those at hand was on my old 1975 Micromoog.

Hey UD, how 'bout that EP on Sunny?

Well, that is certainly a better quality demo than what we've seen before, but it also reveals what several SZ'ers (some of them dedicated Korgians) were saying all along...the instrument has changed very little from the PA2XPro, at least in the sound and style departments...feature-wise, there appears to be some great upgrades, but otherwise, it sounds very much like the older model.

The limp sounding trumpet is well below par for a top of the line instrument...the acoustic guitar (DNC?) sound wasn't too bad, but nowhere near what it should be on an instrument at this level. Styles were very nice...the Santana type style (similar to Yamaha's Rock Cha Cha) was nicely done, but the letdown was the "Stereo Dist Guitar" which really doesn't have much guts. The Bossa Nova was also pretty good, but, it doesn't sound much different than what I heard on the other, older PA instruments, and the guitar sound used for the melody, is rather bland and not very expressive...I noticed some notes bleeding unnaturally into the others, but it just might have been a technique issue with the player.

Maybe the demonstrator wasn't familiar enough with the new instrument to showcase the new styles and sounds?

Let's hope further posted demos more clearly illustrate the "differences" and/or "improvements" from the earlier models.

Ian

Well Ian. Those that thought a whole new instrument was going to be demoed different to what we heard at namm were just cloud gazing. You know ....seeing shapes and faces in the clouds that actually were never there.

If these demos impressed in terms of sound then really thats no surprise as its a Korg PA2X oh wait it says PA3X...that cant be right can it ???? ... :-) I know we will probably have to wait another 3 months for the finished product (oops that excuse was already used ) to .....or perhaps we are still seeing and hearing the prototype.(nope that was used too) ..or maybe this was not REAL demo ( that too) , maybe this guy is just a sales rep with the first keyboard which will be updated with the proper OS later.(not this time) ..or.... or...


Amnyone fancy spending money to upgrade on this needs reasons other than the quality of sound.

It seems that there is no need of decent demo's of the PA3x,
They don't want to sell to many units,to stay exclusive.:-)

Impuls

I enjoyed listening to the demo.. drums were a bit thin for my liking but Im sure you could easily beef them up a bit. Little by little the demos get better....nice find.

This is so typical of the average arranger player... swamp the backing with the lead sound. When will they ever learn? By the time you can hear yourself WELL, you are too damn loud!

This has the effect of making what ought to be pretty punchy backing simply sound weak. A better mixed version of this might impress quite a bit more...

Oh, and sorry, but I imagine Korg aficionados might be able to distinguish the new styles and sounds, but few else can. Just as I can't tell what is new and what is old (it all sounds the same to me) in a T4 demo. I expect there is at LEAST as much new in a PA3X compared to a PA2X as there was in a T3>T4 jump. But only the truly knowledgeable are likely to know what is what...

Sounds just like the PA2XPro to me, Spalding. Like you (and you own a Korg arranger) I can't hear any change, however subtle it might be.

And, I also agree that anyone buying this arranger would be doing so for reasons other than an increase in the quality of sounds, although I suspect not many will want to pay that much money for a Chord Sequencer...there weren't too many that missed it when it was dropped from the Roland arrangers, so I have a feeling it won't mean all that much to the Korgians, who never had it in the first place.

I sure hope that there will be better demos of this new instrument, or, I'm afraid there will be a lot of disappointed people that have waited patiently for a replacement for their PA2XPro, or even the PA800.

Any sign of these instruments coming your way, so we can get a review from you?

Ian

There were few that even USED the chord sequencer from Roland while it was out. I can't count the number of people I showed this to on their own arranger, and were amazed at what it did... Mind you, as I've always said, it's one of those things that mostly benefits the better player (not much point freeing up your left hand if all it can do is One Finger Chords, anyway!), which is generally not the meat of the arranger market.

I believe that there are two unsung features that radically change how and what you can play... The CS for arranger mode, and the Mark/Jump capabilities for SMF play. I guarantee that 99% of the people with these features on their arrangers are not using them. That doesn't mean that they are unimportant features.

Just that few ever explore new capabilities once they have a little 'system' down. I mean, possibly half of even this forum don't use Registrations much, but simply call up a 'free panel' setting, and then select styles and sounds on the fly. Does that mean Yamaha should drop having Registrations? Because quite a few don't use them?

I doubt you'd agree with this, Ian.

For the two handed player, for the player of a secondary instrument, the CS opens up possibilities that can be done in NO OTHER WAY. That few can be bothered to learn them isn't the problem of the feature, it's the problem of the PLAYER...

Yep +1 here Ian. Sounded nice, but nothing we couldn't already do on the PA2. Maybe there is more to come??

Dennis

How can the ROM double, and there NOT be more to come?!

Still early days...

Actually, those who do not use registration memory would be a very, very small minority in my own experience, and from what I have gathered from the Yamaha forums and clinics.

It is a very efficient, and remarkably easy to use system...Roland's UPG needed workarounds, so perhaps that's why you feel Yamaha's isn't used as much.

It is.

The way I see it, if it had made that much difference to Roland users, the company's market research would have deemed it necessary to keep it.

I had it on the E-70 I owned for some time...I used it, but not that often...it's only handy in certain tunes, and I suppose, the increase in the use of SMF sort of made it redundant for many players.

I certainly can't see a PA2XPro user spring for a PA3XPro simply because it has a Chord Sequencer; so far it's the only really obvious difference....sonically, at least from the demos we've heard, they are very much alike.

Ian

I am now happy that i ordered a Tyros 4,nothing will beat it the following decade

Impuls

Maybe there is more to come Dennis, but, I can't see the value of Korg holding back on this instrument's presentation...if they are trying to mimic Yamaha's "teaser" method that was used for the Tyros3 and T4, they aren't doing a very good job of it.

Mostly, the comments I hear are ones of disappointment, and some of the sounds I'm hearing on the present demos seem almost like a step back, rather than one ahead.

I hope the company, and the demonstrators, redeem the instrument, because it's success is very important to all of us arranger players...competition always improves the breed, and with a major player like Roland out of the business (except for the BK-7M module), all that's really left is Korg and Yamaha.

Ian

Mmmmmm - NORD-like!
I noticed it too!

Correct me if I am wrong (show me a link if possible) but I have not seen or heard one demo about the new "Ambience" drums yet... or are they just automatically in every style????

Alot of people keep saying how there's such a little difference from the PA2 to the PA3 - may be true but I think this is more of a step up than the T3 to T4...

Technical Feature-wise (leaving sounds out of the equation) if you compare the T4 to the PA2, the PA2 is much ahead in terms of midi control / sound editing / general arrange functions and configurations.

The T4 has fantastic authentic voices but the drums and overall clarity and punch (although a definite improvement over the T3) are STILL not on par to the Korg or Roland drums.

I was an owner of a Tyros 2, and then the PSR S910, and there is common vibe amongst the Yamaha community that these keyboards need better punchier drums, fatter crisp basses, better sound editing capabilities, better midi control functionality, etc etc.

so any update Yamaha gives is like being handed Treasure!

This is not the same with the Korg. People aren't starved of sound quality or functionality. its more just a product refresh and update. not so much "we need this, we need this, we need this etc"

alot of what I have said is opinionated and subjective to taste so there will be people who will not like what I have said or highly disagree with me, but there will be alot of others who I am sure will agree with me and understand exactly what I am talking about... whether you come out and back me up or not...

Nick

That's the thing, Korgies, for the most part, like to delve a bit deeper. That's not to say that SOME Yamaha players don't get into that end of things, but it's not their typical arranger crowd. Their chosen axes fall well short of Korg when it comes to editing, that's no news to anyone. It's well known that most Yamaha arranger folks are just content to sit there and noodle out the old tried and true chestnuts and that's precisely the market that Yamaha goes after - all power to them.

Ever hear the term 'horses for courses'?

Good Grief, Nick! Did you actually objectively listen to the demo posted above?

Sound quality? The instruments heard on the above demo are weak. The only one with any character is the Electric Piano. The trumpet sounds anemic, and the Distortion Guitar sounds dry and thin...the acoustic guitar (supposedly a DNC voice) has no character whatsoever.

This thread is not about comparing the PA3XPro with Yamaha...to each his/her own as far what we like to hear coming from our speakers...what is being said, is the Korg PA3Xpro compared to Korg PA2Xpro is actually showing very little improvement based on what we've heard so far...if you think that any of those voices are markedly improved from the PA2XPro, then that's fine...but not everyone does.

This is not a pissing contest between Yamaha and Korg...unless you want to make it one?

Trying to compare the T3 to T4 improvements against PA2 to PA3 upgrades is only a meagre attempt to get away from what this thread is all about.

I understand you are a Korg fan, but please...don't kid yourself and the rest of us by saying there is marked improvement in what you heard in the above demo...unless you don't care about your credibility.

There have been plenty of discussions on the T3 to T4 improvements...let's try and keep this one to the topic at hand, and stop trying to put up smokescreens just because the demos aren't showing what you wish.

Ian

Hey Ian,
I am not intending to make it a pissing contest, honestly Im not bashing Yamaha at all, cos I too am a Yamaha fan, I always have been (Still got my Motif XF)

Don’t get me wrong I am not saying there is a major difference in sound quality at all from PA2 to PA3. In fact I think there is NO difference bar a few additional voices added (probably about 20-40 if that) and those so called “ambience drums” which I have not seen demonstrated as yet.

What my point is in all this and the reason why I bought Yamaha into my post was a mere comparison in what people are looking for in a replacement arranger model.

My personal experience when I had my Yammys was that I always wanted more punch and ‘oomf’ which was found in Roland , Korg, ketron etc and therefore any incremental step to bring the Yamaha closer for example: Tyros 2/3/4 and so on is like absolute GOLD. It’s like Yamaha keep dangling the carrot over their customers… the new model is better overall sounding… and then better again, and again.

The vibe from the Korg community is somewhat different...

The urge for an overall sound quality improvement is not as demanding in Korg Land as it is in Yamaha Land from what I have seen and gathered over the years…

Im not saying we don’t need a refresh or a new model – there is ALWAYS room for improvement!

Regarding the sounds heard in that video demo: To me, that concert guitar DNC which was played in the bossa nova clip is excellent!. How can anyone disagree with that? I think you were referring to the acoustic guitar played about a minute earlier which was an older sample Guitar…

The electric guitar at the start sounds disgraceful and I think the reason why is because of the way the demonstrator is playing it. And also it probably doesn’t have any good effects applied to it which is an easy fix…

mate - happy to join you for a pissing contest offline via email

Nick

Nice try, Ian, but way off the mark... I use registrations for EVERYTHING, and see no problem with Roland's implementation of it at all. However, I HAVE read of quite a few here that tend to go 'old school' when it comes to sound and style selection. The point I was trying to make (and you were trying to ignore) is that there are ALWAYS features that few use. Should they ALL be dropped?

After hearing the above demo, and the earlier ones posted, I'm very surprised that anyone would be satisfied with the Korg sounds as they stand.

If this is as far as Korg can take the DNC voices, I must say I am very disappointed...I was expecting much more from Korg.

With SA and SA2 voices, Yamaha is steadily improving what is on their arrangers, even if it appears incrementally to some, but, Nick, what I'm hearing from Korg's demos so far, is below an incremental improvement.

That's why I said I hope that this isn't the best we'll hear from them and they somehow redeem themselves and showcase what this instrument is really supposed to do...so far, sonically, it is isn't even incrementally better than the PA2Xpro.

Ian

I wasn't saying you didn't use them Diki...I expected that you did....I was merely pointing out that the UPG were less than satisfactory (requiring workarounds) for some Roland users.

Those that go "old school" here on the forum? I can't recall very many here doing such a thing...most, if not all, Yamaha users on this forum use registration memories.

I certainly hope that Roland's registration memories aren't dropped like the Chord Sequencer...next thing you know, they'll want to get rid of the keyboard...oh, wait, I think they have...now you have to provide your own...Ha Ha! Of course, that might be a good thing.

From what I understand, registration memories are the most used feature on any arranger...I doubt very much if they'll ever be dropped.

I suspect if the chord sequencer was being used by even a moderate amount of players, Roland's marketing research would have caught that and it just might have been kept on...but, again, I also feel that the increased use of SMF (something Roland heartily promoted and encouraged) helped with it's demise.

In any case, it's water under the bridge now...let's just hope Korg's use of it isn't as brief as Roland's.

Ian

What I don't understand is now the Musicmesse has started Korg still didn't release a good video about the PA3x. Their marketing sucks big time. Look at Yamaha they already have great video's about their new moX. That is how you sell.

Also they still haven't update korgpa.com
I really don't understand.

And did you notice how long she could sing without taking a breath!
This demo was the best we've seen, which isn't saying a whole lot. At least it makes me want to play one to see what it really can do.
DonM

I didn't hear much of a ground breaking sound or style change improvement in sound.... BUT I would still say the big difference in this new model is the features.

No, the LONG list of great features that Roland have dropped tends to suggest LESS market research, not more! In all my years of playing Roland arrangers, and all my friends, too, not ONE of us has ever been contacted by Roland for any Q&A...

I am not sure what issues with the registrations you are referring to, Ian. Possibly some issues from pre OS2. AFAIK, currently, the Registration in a G70 stores everything, I think with the possible exception of Intro status. Compared to the Songbook not storing transposition values (something Donny always alludes to), a minor omission IMO. You may be basing your opinions (and many others may be too) on very old impressions of pre-OS3 tryouts. Roland fixed and changed a LOT with updates, rather than force us to buy a new arranger. Something no doubt many arranger players wish could happen for them...

In effect, I play a G90, despite having bought a G70... The additions were at least as important as any new features added to a Yamaha model change. And I got them for free!

That could be it, Diki...I remember you posting something about the UPG's quite some time ago (I believe it was something to do with not storing transposition)...glad to see any issues have been resolved.

I remember having a client with a CVP-109, a top of the range instrument (about $7 grand), which would not store transposition in the registration memories...what a bummer! And, I believe the PSR-740 wouldn't do it either...of course, they were both released at the same time, so no big surprise. Since then all is well and it's been corrected in subsequent instruments.

Registrations...best feature they have ever added to arrangers...certainly a feature copied from the organ divisions.

Ian

Even version 1 G70 stored transpose....I don't recall any Roland user programs that didn't save transpose.

Well, since you are the resident G-70 guru, it wasn't transpose that the UPG's didn't store...I can't be bothered searching the Roland arranger site (or SZ) for any details on what the problem was, so we may as well leave it at that...I do know it was something relatively important regarding UPG's that required a workaround, and it was also posted here by Diki to help a G-70 user.

Maybe I'll have a look when I have a bit more free time.

Ian

Fran beat me too it... I'm just not sure you are remembering what the issue was.

Possibly that OTS's used to be stored with the UPS, and post OS2, they got stored with the style.

You know what's funny, though? Despite the G70 being out of production for quite a while, I now have two friends (full-time gigging pros) who JUST bought one, after seeing me play mine. Yes, they are both live band players, but one has the TOTL MoXS, the other a couple of Triton models, and they BOTH wanted to get the G70 as a live board! Yes, I agree that the G70 STRICTLY as an arranger is a hair long in the tooth, with no SA/DNC capabilities or Mega Voices, multipads, etc., but as a live keyboard for a gigging keyboard player that wants to cover ALL the bases, from full band to solo work, I still think there are few equals at best.

Ease of use, ease of editing, ease of operation, then killer punchy sound that holds its own against the beefiest of live drummers, all the meat and potatoes nailed... That's what I need in a keyboard. Yes, if I were doing ALW orchestral pieces in a concert setting, it might not be my go to tool (I have the K2500 for that!) but for if I get called out on a gig, and have NO IDEA what they want when I get there, could be solo, could be a ten piece, I'll grab the G70 over anything currently made...

Seems like quite a few that hear mine agree..!

Thanks Diki, I believe it might have been what you said about the OTS's used to be stored with the UPS, and post OS2, they got stored with the style.

Good for you that the G-70 does the job...you did well buying two of them (Fran is looking for another one, too), and considering it's age, and the lack of SA/SA2/Mega type voices,no multipads no on board audio recording, it appears to be still able to more than do the job, especially if you're playing in a group or a band situation.

However, I'm not sure if I'd ever want to have to use it on solo "arranger only" gigs, and that's not even considering it's weight issues, but it sure sounds a hell of a lot better than a Prelude, GW-8 and perhaps even the new BK-7M.
My biggest issue with the sounds, was not the quality (well, the piano was very good...and I liked the strings)), even though most of them sound rather dated today, but the crazy way the organ section was routed; a shame really, as back then, the VK organ sound was one of the better sounding clone-wheels to my ears.

Overall, I think it's a shame Roland stopped making TOTL/MOTL arrangers, but without any fresh technology to showcase, I believe they would have a tough time competing at that level...so perhaps it is better that they went out in style.

Ian

There's a new one for sale in the Buy and Sell section.
DonM

just to get back on topic. The thing that baffles me is that Korg have had the last 3 years to develope brand new DNC sounds. What the hell happened ?????

If therr was a feature that all user groups really wanted it was the full evolution of DNC. What did Korg users get as a reward for their patience and loyalty to Korg ??????

And how many OS upgrade did the Korg PA 2X get over its life span ???? One of the main selling features of the Korg OS system was the potential for future OS upgrade that was often dangled as juicy carrot but turned into a limp lettuce.

I dont want to seem overly critical but at least yamaha give you incredible sounds for their exhorbitant prices . korg has not really upgraded its sound set since the PA1X .

The PA3x have plenty of DNC sounds only problem is no video show them. Korg just won't release a professional video and I really don't know why.

No sounds upgrade since PA1x?
What is DNC then? You are contradicting yourself. DNC sounds get released with OS 2.1 for the PA800/PA2x.
On the PA3x, Korg have double the amount of DNC sounds now. Is no the same route that Yamaha have used with their SA voices?, meaning incremental offerings.
Korg have provide FREE upgrades to the OS and additional styles, the last ones being a group of 32 Latin styles.

Yes with Yamaha you must buy a whole new keyboard if you want a upgrade. 4000 Euro for a few new sounds hahaha
Yamaha is master of rip off

Yep... you didn't see Yamaha release SA as a free upgrade to the T1, did you...?

Or SA2 as a free upgrade to the T2...

If you want to stay current as to voice technology, Korg usually means that your existing arranger will keep pace for a lot longer than some other brands, which make you buy another arranger to have access to the latest technology.

I agree that Korg have been dragging their feet providing TOTL samples to USE with DNC, but we have heard very little of the new ones so far. Doesn't mean they don't exist, though. Still early days, my friends!

What surprises me, Spalding, is that if this new PA3Xpro has incredible new DNC sounds, why aren't they being showcased?

I've heard from several people, that the overall improvements (or upgrades) are mainly new features, and not a great deal of new sounds.

Apparently Korg aren't too interested in giving the PA3Xpro proper demos.

There has been talk that most of Korg's research and development money was put on the new Kronos, and the arranger division got very little to work with.

I was talking on the phone to someone today, who is in touch (via Skype) with someone who is reviewing the now available PA3Xpro (not a prototype), and, so far, it isn't very impressive.

Perhaps it is intended for those using the el cheapo models, like the PA-500, who want more than what they have on their present instruments?

I really can't see someone who already has a PA2Xpro wanting to buy a PA3Xpro.

Maybe Korg will break down and hire a demonstrator who can showcase the new DNC sounds and the new features.

So far, it sounds rather meh to me, and offers no competition whatsoever to Yamaha's incredibly expressive SA/SA2 voices (not to mention their Mega Voices).

Ian

Now for all the negative people and ofcourse people who are interested in the best keyboard (my opinion) go listen to this DNC sample of a elec guitar at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ8SqngItWY of the Korg PA2x
Also listen to some of his other demos.

Now think about that the PA3x have twice as must sample rom, more DNC sounds, 8 stereo effects at once plus much more goodies... Definitely a winner.

For all those "positive" people, who believe the PA3Xpro is positively bland (at least so far)...have a listen to the guitar on the mid-range Yamaha PSR-S910.



You can hear Tyros4 guitar demos here:

http://music-tyros.com/tyros4/features/voices/guitar.html

I already hear these demos. Sound plastic to me. As if the sound engine is 20 + years old. Are we looking for a Korg vs Yamaha contest Ian?

Nope, if I was looking for a contest, I would have started a new thread, but upon listening to Korg's dismal demos so far, there could not be a contest.

No, this is just a reminder how factory demos are supposed to be done.

Basic AWM sampling has been around for a long time...over 20 years...when something does the job properly, and allows for substantial upgrades as the newer technology is developed and becomes available, there is no need to change the basics.


Ian

Well the other brands think there is.

Yes, apparently they do...they were forced to change just to keep up...now, if they could only show some actual positive results, then their need to change would be justified.

So far, it ain't happening...however, some good factory demos certainly would go a long way towards proving it.

Ian

Come on Ian to keep up. Yamaha Motif XS is already beaten by the Kronos and also by the Roland Jupiter 80.

Yamaha comes with a cheap looking 64 Polyphone MOX6/8. It's almost embarrassing.

Not correct Fran...

The MOX series is NOT a contender for the Kronos and Jupiter 80.
The MOX is a Yamaha's latest budget mid-range synth below the Motif XF.

The Motif XF is a complete workstation competing with Roland Fantom G / Korg M3...

I would say Jupiter 80 and Kronos are different tools that are more closer in comparison... they are more for pure synthesizer / live performer - which is something the Motif XF is still capable of (sound quality is obviously very subjective).

Nick

Yes, Frans, the Kronos is a fine instrument. If I was looking for a good synthesizer, it would be on the list, but I already have a vintage Roland Jupiter 8 for all the analog stuff, and the Tyros4 has whatever else I need...those SA/SA2/Cool!/Sweet!/Live! voices are wonderfully expressive.

You see Frans, I am only stating the obvious. Korg needs to put up professional demos in order to show if there were actually any improvements in the sounds, especially the DNC voices.

So far, the PA3Xpro sounds hardly any different than the PA2Xpro...if you think that's a step ahead, that's fine by me.

And, so far, the Korg aficionados I have spoken with are not one bit impressed with the PA3XPro....and, neither am I.

It does appear you may be in the minority...

Ian

Yes I know Nick but it is the only thing new from Yamaha and again based on AWM2. Korg and Roland does have much more variation in their assortiment synths.

The Kronos btw is a complete workstation and a direct compatitor of the Motif XS.

Not on the German forum Ian. I hear a lot of positive things there. And yes about the video's you are right.

So, how do you feel about it Frans? Can you hear a big difference in the PA3Xpro and the PA2Xpro from the demos that have been posted?

Ian

So the Kronos and the MOX are in the same price category?

Ian

Actually yes. I have hear some new sounds for example the acoustic and electric piano's, guitars, a great sounding new harmonica, new clarinet and a few others.

If you listen to a Yamaha Tyros 2 and a Tyros 4 I hear a Yamaha. Yes there are a few differences but you can hear it is a Yamaha. Same is with Korg. Same is with roland. Same is with Ketron. So ofcourse the PA3x will sound like a PA2x only better.

lol spot on Ian - they are about 3k apart from each other!

You can buy 3 MOX 6's for 1 Kronos.

I don't even know why we are having this conversation hahaha

You miss the point Nick. I am not comparing the cheap MOX with the Kronos. I say its the only new synth of Yamaha on Musicmesse and again based on the 20+ sound engine AWM2.

I compared the Motif XS (only 1 sound engine) with the Kronos (9 sound engines) And the winner is?

Actually, you are correct...I find the Tyros2 and Tyros4 have the same overall sound. The Tyros3 sounded quite a bit different to me (and many other Yamaha players).

However, the Tyros4 has a lot more features, and many more new sounds (including SA2-which are not on the Tyros2) when compared to the earlier instruments. Plus, it has a faster processor than T2 and T3.

Hopefully the PA2Xpro to PA3Xpro will prove to be as substantial an upgrade as the Tyros3 to Tyros4.

More demos will tell the tale soon enough...let's just hope they are more professionally done, and they feature more new DNC voices.

Ian

Finally we agree I hope also for better video's. Like I said before their marketing sucks. Yamaha does it right and I respect that. That is the way you sell your products.

Ian, I can also keep repeating the same tired cliche that the T4 sounds little different to the T3 (or T2). Doesn't make it so, does it?

You have said you have hardly spent any time with a PA2X, have NEVER played a PA3X, and here you are spouting the same thing that you would criticize me for saying... Why not just wait for the dust to settle, wait for the official demos to come out, and then bless us with your judgment once you have something solid to base it on?

If all you had to judge the T4 on was people mostly playing T3 sounds and styles on poor web demos, how tolerant would you be of people saying that, 'well, if these guys haven't played many new sounds or styles, I guess there aren't many in there'..?

You know perfectly well that Yamaha are not going to release a new arranger without a significant number of new styles and new sounds. And, if you could just FOR ONCE step back a bit from your Yamaha evangelism, you might be honest enough to admit that every OTHER arranger manufacturer is going to do the same. Just because we haven't heard them, doesn't mean they aren't in there...

regarding the PA sound set , so far all we can do is cloud watch because the evidence is severly lacking cuz Korg either are not able or dont want to demo the instrument well.

Why not you stop telling me what to do, especially in such a disrespectful manner?

It's not very nice, and I don't appreciate it one tiny bit.

You are stepping over the line.

If you must be flippant and ignorant, do it elsewhere.

Ian

Yes Frans...we agree...actually we aren't too far apart on this whole deal.

I'm not against Korg at all...matter of fact, if you read some of my posts, you will see that I'm hoping they do well with the PA3Xpro.

I'm of the opinion that as each manufacturer brings out a better product than their earlier ones, especially with really cool features and sounds, it forces their competitors to do the same...and who benefits?

We do, my friend.

Competition always works in our favor.

I wonder if Roland's BK-7m module will make Korg and Yamaha have a look at making one of their own?

Ian

Demos:

http://www.korgpa.com/en/products/arrangers/pa3x/pa3x-demo/P/5-pa3x/13-full-songs.html

manual:

http://www.korgpa.com/images/stories/pdf/pa3x/Pa3X%20User%20Manual%20v100%20(English).pdf

advanced manual:

http://www.korgpa.com/images/stories/pdf/pa3x/Pa3X%20Advanced%20Edit%20Manual%20v100%20(English).pdf


regards,
John Smies

P.S. could we have a friendly discussion on this please....

Sorry I could not edit previous message again, but I thought it wiser to open a new thread on this, see:

http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthread...and_#Post321179

John

Finally Thanks John