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#326428 - 06/13/11 01:23 PM Transposing sequencer songs
Bert Aarts Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 158
Loc: Breda, The Netherlands
In the past I have downloaded a lot of sequencer songs from various talented KN owners, like Bill, Larry, Bebop, Bud and many others. Thanks to all for letting us enjoy their music.
I like to play along using these sequences (gives me the feeling that I am a pretty good player, which I am not!) but unfortunate many of them are not in the same key as my sheet music. Is there a procedure to transpose a sequencer song to the key that I need to play along?
Bert

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#326431 - 06/13/11 02:01 PM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: Bert Aarts]
HarryG Offline
Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 211
Loc: Germany
Hi Bert,

Check your mail

Greetings
Harry

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#326491 - 06/14/11 08:21 AM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: Bert Aarts]
etwo4788 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 518
Loc: S.E. New Mexico USA
HARRY..... If you have an answerto BERT's question....how about posting it here for all to read?????

Elizabeth

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#326500 - 06/14/11 12:02 PM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: Bert Aarts]
Bert Aarts Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 158
Loc: Breda, The Netherlands
Harry sent me a word file by email. I tried to add this file to this post but it looks like a word file cannot be added? I got the message that only certain extensions can be added, .doc is not one of them. Am I doing something wrong?
Bert


Edited by Bert Aarts (06/14/11 12:07 PM)

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#326510 - 06/14/11 02:07 PM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: Bert Aarts]
HarryG Offline
Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 211
Loc: Germany
Hi Elizabeth,

Transose is a feature that should really be known. Bert's why I responded by email.

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#326519 - 06/14/11 04:05 PM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: Bert Aarts]
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1098
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
Hello Bert,

I don't do use 'play along songs' but if I had your problem, I think I would try the following:-

1) Save your song/track to one of the Panel Memories.

2) Press and hold down the blue (SET) button in the centre of the PM wheel. This will take you
to Page 1 of the PANEL MEMORY MODE. At this stage press the 'Display Hold' (obviously,to
make sure the display screen doesn't change whilst you're working in that area).

3) Make sure the EXPAND is selected (showing a red box all round it). If it isn't, just press
the button to the left of the screen next to the word EXPAND.

4) Press PAGE button (bottom right of the screen next to the 'Display Hold' button. This will
take you to the EXPAND MODE FILTER on Page 2. Among other options, you will see TRANSPOSE
which should be 'ON'.

6) Press the Transpose button + or - to make your choice, then re-save the panel memory.

7) If you are going to use the same transposition for all 8 panel memories, then the easiest
way to make sure they all stay the same, is to switch the Transpose button to 'OFF' in the
Expand Mode Filter section.

Hope this helps!

Audrey

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#326541 - 06/14/11 11:20 PM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: Bert Aarts]
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6483
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Originally Posted By: Bert Aarts
Harry sent me a word file by email. I tried to add this file to this post but it looks like a word file cannot be added? I got the message that only certain extensions can be added, .doc is not one of them. Am I doing something wrong?
Bert


No it's not you Bert, .doc isn't supported. But you could add it to a zip file and upload that. Or simply highlight the text, copy it ( CTRL-C ) and paste it ( CTRL-V ) into a forum post. That would be even better than attaching a file.

Though I am guessing it probably says what Audrey posted.

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#326544 - 06/15/11 12:14 AM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: Bert Aarts]
Bert Aarts Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 158
Loc: Breda, The Netherlands
Thanks Nigel.
This is what Harry sent me:

Hello,

It is difficult for me in a foreign language to explain but I try it once.
I hope that Rog can specify individual activities.

1. Press the PROGRAM MENUS button to select the display SEQUENCER.
2. Then select the display RANGE EDIT and then TRANSPOSE.
3. Now imagine you TRACK the desired track of the sequencer Midifiles given to you in the
Pitch change. You can also choose ALL to view all tracks in the pitch
alike to change.
4. For FIRST MEASURE set the first bar to the transposition from the start
be. If it affects the whole song, it is here the 1
5. LAST MEASURE When you make the last bar, which should be transposed. When
Transpose the entire song must therefore be the last time it is. The white
But usually not accurate, so here is make sure you stop half a relatively high number an example 200.
6. TRANSPOSE When you need to adjust now, but should be transposed. A
Octave up is +12 (12 semitones = one octave). An octave lower
accordingly -12. If you are C of E to transpose down, then you must
-4 choose here.
7. Now perform this function by clicking OK and confirm again with YES.

(Remark Bert: There was a picture of the display which could not be copied)


WARNING! If you are as described above when the option ALL TRACK (all tracks) elected
, then of course, now the drum track (drum track) has been transposed, and
then agrees with the instrument layout of the individual percussion instruments, no more. This
So you need to track back transpose.

1. In Midifiles is the drum track, usually the 10th track
2. Run the TRANSPOSE function in the Sequencer RANGE EDIT menu again
through, but now only the 10th track Imagine therefore the TRACK 10.
3. For FIRST and LAST MEASURE MEASURE leave the already existing entries
Just stand.
4. TRANSPOSE For now, however, set the opposite value. Ie, if you previously
-4 Had entered there, then you must now enter +4, so that the drum track 10


Edited by Bert Aarts (06/15/11 12:18 AM)

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#326545 - 06/15/11 12:19 AM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: Bert Aarts]
Bert Aarts Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 158
Loc: Breda, The Netherlands
Thanks Audrey, I will give it a try.
Bert

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#326582 - 06/15/11 02:50 PM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: Bert Aarts]
Bert Aarts Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 158
Loc: Breda, The Netherlands
Sorry,last part of Harries email was missing in my post. This is the complete word file:

Hello,

It is difficult for me in a foreign language to explain but I try it once.
I hope that Rog can specify individual activities.

1. Press the PROGRAM MENUS button to select the display SEQUENCER.
2. Then select the display RANGE EDIT and then TRANSPOSE.
3. Now imagine you TRACK the desired track of the sequencer Midifiles given to you in the
Pitch change. You can also choose ALL to view all tracks in the pitch
alike to change.
4. For FIRST MEASURE set the first bar to the transposition from the start
be. If it affects the whole song, it is here the 1
5. LAST MEASURE When you make the last bar, which should be transposed. When
Transpose the entire song must therefore be the last time it is. The white
But usually not accurate, so here is make sure you stop half a relatively high number an example 200.
6. TRANSPOSE When you need to adjust now, but should be transposed. A
Octave up is +12 (12 semitones = one octave). An octave lower
accordingly -12. If you are C of E to transpose down, then you must
-4 choose here.
7. Now perform this function by clicking OK and confirm again with YES.

(Remark Bert: There was a picture of the display which could not be copied)



WARNING! If you are as described above when the option ALL TRACK (all tracks) elected
, then of course, now the drum track (drum track) has been transposed, and
then agrees with the instrument layout of the individual percussion instruments, no more. This
So you need to track back transpose.

1. In Midifiles is the drum track, usually the 10th track
2. Run the TRANSPOSE function in the Sequencer RANGE EDIT menu again
through, but now only the 10th track Imagine therefore the TRACK 10.
3. For FIRST and LAST MEASURE MEASURE leave the already existing entries
Just stand.
4. TRANSPOSE For now, however, set the opposite value. Ie, if you previously
-4 Had entered there, then you must now enter +4, so that the drum track 10 back into the original state will be moved back.
5. Press OK to execute and confirm once again Yes.
Now you can Midifile back to the SD card or save to a floppy disk.


Edited by Bert Aarts (06/15/11 02:52 PM)

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#326603 - 06/16/11 04:26 AM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: Bert Aarts]
Bert Aarts Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 158
Loc: Breda, The Netherlands
I checked both procedures of Harry and Audrey.
The one of Harry seems to be the correct way.
With Audrey procedure not only the sequencer song transposes but also the current panel, so also the play along and sequencer song still does not match the key of my sheet music.
Thanks Harry for solvng this problem for me.
Thanks Audrey for paying attention to my question.
Bert

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#326628 - 06/16/11 04:49 PM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: Bert Aarts]
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1098
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
Hi Bert,

Maybe you didn't need to be in the Expand Mode, just the Panel Memory - I don't know, but I have to say Harry's version sounds more feasible to me.

This is interesting though - you learn something everyday don't you.

Happy playing!

Audrey

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#326643 - 06/17/11 01:36 AM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: Bert Aarts]
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1664
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
Another final thought Bert might be to delete the other player's sequence and re-record it yourself using his/her settings in the key that suits you. Other than that Harry's description is correct but a real pain in the proverbial to complete.
_________________________
Roger M

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#326645 - 06/17/11 02:31 AM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: RMepstead]
Bert Aarts Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 158
Loc: Breda, The Netherlands
Thanks Roger for your suggestion. Normally I play along with R1, R2, L1 and ACP. In that case I am missing the extra parts that are included in most sequencer songs.
Bert

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#326646 - 06/17/11 03:11 AM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: Bert Aarts]
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1664
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
Ah...right hand only I guess...?
_________________________
Roger M

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#326653 - 06/17/11 05:21 AM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: RMepstead]
Bert Aarts Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 158
Loc: Breda, The Netherlands
No, not right hand only. I play melody and chords by switching off RT1, RT2, LFT and APC tracks.
You will probably know the Jaybirds who published sequencer songs and corresponding sheet music on www.keso.nl in the past? They offered this possibility. Also Phill Newell offers sequencer songs with corresponding sheet music on Bill's website (beautiful songs!). However a lot of sequencer songs are available on the web without the corresponding sheet music, so I was looking for a way to match with the sheet music I have. Harries solution makes this possible.
Bert

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#326659 - 06/17/11 06:29 AM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: RMepstead]
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2330
Loc: North Yorkshire UK
I fully appreciate that English is not Harry's native language and although the procedure described by him is correct, it may help to describe it again.....
There are several possibilities as far as a recorded sequence is concerned :

a. It was originally recorded as an 'Easy Record' sequence.... probably the most common form.
OR
b. It was recorded as a full Multi Track sequence - Like our friend Larry Gosmeyer's recordings - or it is a MIDI file.

a. An 'Easy Record' sequence will normally only utilise the first Six tracks ie. RT1, RT2, Left, P4, APC and CTL. Some of these tracks may or may not actually be used during the original recording...... P4 is often used as the Technichord Track to allow individual Volume and/or sound setting.

b. A Multi-Track sequence, or MIDI sequence can use any of the tracks, up to the available 16 parts and does not normally use the APC track, so the Built-In or Composer Styles are not used.

c. There is also a kind of 'Hybrid' sequence, which was originally recorded using the 'Easy Record' method, to produce the basic arrangement, but had additional tracks, such as Brass 'Figures' or accents in a Big Band sequence, added after the 'Easy Record' operation.

The method of recording can easily be determined by looking at the used tracks in the Sequencer Play screen, after the sequence has been loaded. All used tracks will have a Green 'PLAY' Icon above them.

To Transpose :
1. Load the Sequence as normal.
2. Press Program Menus > Sequencer > Range Edit > Transpose - the Transpose screen will be displayed.
3. Set the Track number to ALL
4. Set The First Measure to 1 and the Last measure to a high value such as 250, to ensure the entire sequence is covered.
5. Set the Transpose value to the number of Semitones (up or down) you wish to transpose the sequence. For example, if you wish to transpose from E down to C, you would set the Transpose value to -4.
6. Press OK followed by YES and all tracks will be transposed to the selected key.
7. Depending on how the sequence was recorded, you may not require any further steps. If the sequence was recorded using the 'Easy Record' method, as described in a. above, then the transposition operation is complete and no further action is required. This also applies to the 'Hybrid' type of sequence described in c. above, unless it can be seen that Track 10 (the normal Drum Track) has also been used - perhaps for additional accents - fills etc.

8. If it can be seen that the usual Drum Track (Track 10) was used (there will be a Green 'PLAY' icon above the track) then a further operation is required. When the Transpose operation in step 6 was carried out, the events in the Drum track will also have been transposed and this will result in incorrect drum 'instruments' being triggered during playback and result in some very strange sounds !! To correct this, carry out the following 3 steps.
9. While still viewing the 'Transpose' screen, reset the 'Transpose' option to the opposite value, to that which is currently shown - in this case it was set to -4, so change the value to +4.
10. In the 'Track' column, change the current setting of ALL, to 10.
11. Press OK followed by YES. This will restore the Drum track to its original condition.
12. Press the 'Sequencer Play' button (Top Left of Panel), turn off the parts you wish to play in real time eg. RT1, RT2, Left and start the sequence playing.


If you wish to keep the transposed version, save to Disk or SD Card as normal.

A word of caution regarding some of my Sequences....
In many of my later sequences, where I tried to achieve 'realistic' accompaniments within the Composer Style, I used some unorthodox methods to ensure that some parts of the Composer accompaniments, were not affected by changing chords in the Left Hand, as they would normally be. Because of this, any attempt to transpose these sequences, will result in these particular parts of the Composer still playing in the originally recorded key, whilst other tracks in the sequence will play in the transposed key...... Not recommended ! smile

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#326663 - 06/17/11 06:43 AM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: Bert Aarts]
Bob Hendershot Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/99
Posts: 924
Loc: Johnson City, TN USA
Bill, your explanation is both accurate and brilliantly described. We need more teachers like you! As you know I have run into the problem you describe in the last paragraph. When you run into a sequence like that described in the last paragraph, the best solution is to transpose the sheet music and leave the sequence alone.

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#326688 - 06/17/11 12:20 PM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: Bob Hendershot]
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2330
Loc: North Yorkshire UK
Thanks Bob smile
I've been asked several times via private emails, how to transpose sequences, so I thought it worthwhile to make it 'Public'........
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley
( especially when the music is played on a KN7000....)

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#326689 - 06/17/11 12:21 PM Re: Transposing sequencer songs [Re: Bert Aarts]
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1664
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
Ok Bert - I vaguely understand what you are doing...Rog
_________________________
Roger M

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