Hi Tony,

I suppose they are all right, depending on your perspective.

For me the arranger is a much handier tool to use than a workstation, so that's why I use a Yamaha Tyros4. I have the features of a workstation that I need, like a 16 track midi recorder (plus Audio recording), and I also have the spontaneity of having incredible editable (try saying that after half a dozen Scotch) styles.

In all my work, from recording to playing "live", the arranger allows me to work faster because I find it much easier to use.

As far as arrangers not being on TV or pro stages, I've used mine in several pro situations, and never got so much as one wayward comment that it wasn't a "pro" instrument, and quite frankly, I could care less, as I'm far busier than most pro keyboardists in my area (when I'm working-I'm off on self imposed sabbatical right now) because I can cover so many genres, and fit into so many kinds of situation, from pure solo work, to duo, trio, or whatever.

We see workstations, instead of arrangers, on stage or in bands, because usually they aren't used as workstations in that situation, but rather just a instrument that makes many types of usable sounds and that has key split ability and layering (and maybe arpeggios).

However, arrangers are used by film composers, professionals like Melissa Manchester and Sting, and are also used on Nashville Row as songwriting tools....at present the latter are using Yamaha PSR-S910

Ever since they stopped sounding too repetitive and featured great high quality usable voices, my first choice for an all-in-one keyboard has always been an arranger.

The way I see it, workstations still do not have enough arranger features, whereas , the arranger has all the workstation features I need to make a living at playing music, whether it be "live" or strictly for recording.

Right now, I'm quite content with the one instrument that does it all for me....an arranger keyboard...the awesome Yamaha Tyros4.

Great topic, Tony.

Ian

i dont know if you have tried to create a track from scracth DNJ on your arranger . The clip you posted of the Kronos can be reproduced on just about any arranger if you know how to programme and edit sounds and use your sequencer. The sounds used in the clip was a combination of strings , horns and a synth sweep pad, and a bog standard rock drum kit and a pizzacato sound. All of these are on any MOTL arranger including your psr910 (if you still have it. All you would need to know is how to edit the attack on the strings and the velocity on the horns to create that 'swell' effect and asign the resonance or brightness of the synthpad to your pitch bend wheel or joystick (on the Korg). There was absolutely nothing in that particular clip that even ythe lowliest arranger couldnt do ...if you know how to use the instrument beyond pressing the start and stop button.

As for original content. thats simply down to the skill of the musician and if you cant produce original tracjks and accompaniment on your arranger then you definately wont be able to do it on any workstation. Dont be fooled by the demo.

Most pros dont know half of what an arranger is capable of or they would most likely own one.

[quote=spalding1968]i dont know if you have tried to create a track from scracth DNJ on your arranger . The clip you posted of the Kronos can be reproduced on just about any arranger if you know how to programme and edit sounds and use your sequencer. The sounds used in the clip was a combination of strings , horns and a synth sweep pad, and a bog standard rock drum kit and a pizzacato sound. All of these are on any MOTL arranger including your psr910 (if you still have it. All you would need to know is how to edit the attack on the strings and the velocity on the horns to create that 'swell' effect and asign the resonance or brightness of the synthpad to your pitch bend wheel or joystick (on the Korg). There was absolutely nothing in that particular clip that even ythe lowliest arranger couldnt do ...if you know how to use the instrument beyond pressing the start and stop button.

As for original content. thats simply down to the skill of the musician and if you cant produce original tracjks and accompaniment on your arranger then you definately wont be able to do it on any workstation. Dont be fooled by the demo.

Most pros dont know half of what an arranger is capable of or they would most likely own one. [/quot




You are right on the money...the sequencer on good arrangers is more than capable to finish the task...There is no better all around instrument than a top model arranger keyboard...Features and sound wise, they take no backseat to any workstation only keyboard...

And I agree it takes a skill level to make useable sequences on a workstation...and if you have that skill...you can do it on an arranger with better results...and less time spent on repetive sequencing (drums etc)...The variety and ease of insert effects on the arranger is another advantage....Pros that put their noses in the air when they see an arranger...are the "biggest losers"...

Another point arppegiators do not compare to multiple tracks within an arranger style..they are completely different...

Most MOTL and TOTL arrangers, including PSR-S910 and Tyros4, have good basic sound editing, which is perfectly usuable for those times when you want to lower/raise the attack/decay/sustain/release rate, change the brightness and harmonics etc.

This is totally fine enough for 99% of editing the average user will need.

Korg arrangers offer even more editing depth, although, I must add, I'm very content with what Yamaha gives me.

Why would someone care what someone else thought about the instrument they used on a gig?

If it does an excellent job, what difference does it make?

I know it certainly doesn't bother me.

As the late Liberace used to say, "Thank you for your very amusing review. After reading it, in fact, I laughed all the way to the bank."

Ian

just to make the point. Here is a talented gentleman using his lowly yamaha psr 900 producing an orchestral piece similar to the Kronos but with much more real orchestral strings and great expression . I have yet to hear a workstation sound as real as this . I know that they must be capable . I am just making the point that the arranger can already do it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/AndrecJC#p/u/24/wBpNVtNYKcY

and here is another http://www.youtube.com/user/AndrecJC#p/u/26/i6VvV4LhIjU

and then an arranger can do this whilst a workstation simply cannot. switching from style to style seemlessley having all the setups you need instantly to hand. Goodness me i ought to be a salesman for arrangres or something !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkEQfEzNw9E

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm?...PC vs Mac comes to mind here, what was I thinking? This is the general arranger forum correct?

http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/keyboards/professional-keyboards/buying-guide.php

Donny,

Your right but sometimes we do drift off radar a little and talk about other things thats OK. Not certain I still know the real answer to my question, the man at my KB store says there is no differnce, and what the hell does he know he's only been in business for 35 years. And Donny have you explained what the difference is, well in your eyes.

Regards

Tony I guess your dealer is right.......they both have black & white keys.. but what do I know I'm only playing 52 years.

you saw for youtrself Tony in the Demos i posted just how a lowly arranger can be used as a workstation despite what other opinions have been expressed. You saw original tracks being created on an arranger. The same muscian in the clips has other recordings whgere he shows how to edit sounds and create original styles or modify existing ones. Remember this is on a lowly psr900 . If he had a Korg PA product there would be virtually limitless creative possibilities and all the tools to do it onboard the instrument.

You dont need ny further evidence. The distinction that was set up by Donny actually is not as black and white as he suggests and i say that without being disrespectful to Donny's views. I just know what i know .

Sound for sound you can't compare any of today's arrangers vs let's say a Kronos or Motif XF can you? And how do you explain the repetitivness of an arrangers styles vs programming a WS arpeggios......? Think of it as driving an automatic transmission vehicle or an expensive sports car with a stick shift.

http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/synthesizers/motif_xf/

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-i...os4/?mode=model

http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=598