HI All

Right com on you guys lets have it for once and for all, what is the difference,in your eyes.

Ian you don't need to answer this one, you know!

Hi Tony

WORKSTATION
Have great sounds, massive editing facilities, but no pre-set content (Songbooks etc.) so you pretty much have to create what you want from scratch, thus an initial heavy workload. (Chord recognition and programming does come as standard in most boards these days though)

ARRANGER
Is full of easy play features (They were after all originally designed the home market) and are great for knocking up something quick, however very limited when you want to customise.

A combination of the 2 boards (T4 and Kronos for instance) gives you the best of both worlds.

ALTERNATIVES
Add a computer and software to an arranger, as this make even hardware workstations look limited; however the downside is that it requires a good midi implementation on the arranger to get the best out of it. (Not forgetting an initial steep learning curve)

Hope this helps

Bill

In regards to drums alone, a workstation does not offer fill in's, intro's or endings etc... everything is based off of arpeggio's. To me this is a huge difference.

Bravo Tone Nice picture...see we're a nice bunch here

Workstations:

Have performances, Combinations or whatever the manufacturer calls them. They are much simpler in instrumentation than Styles. They do not have intros, fills, variations and endings. Motif lets you vary the arps. Korg has Karma which provides variations.

If you want to sit down and quickly start playing with an accompaniment you can do it with both. However you will find that the workstation will be heavily oriented toward modern backing tracks. Plus the number of performances/Combis are limited so you will need to make your own and that's where the workstations require a steep learning curve and a lot of work. The upside is you can create very original tracks.

With Arrangers creating new styles is a lot easier to do than using workstations to create new performances/Combis.

Summary:

Arrangers have many styles that can be changed and with their OS it is easier to create new ones. Styles cover a wide variety of generes.

Workstations have a limited number of performances/Combis. They can be changed fairly easily, however it takes a lot of learning and work to know how to create new ones and even more work to create style-like backing tracks with intros, variations and endings. Plus backing tracks are oriented to more modern accompaniment.

In the end you can accomplish the same objective with both but the workstation requires more work. That's why TOTL arrangers cost less than TOTL workstations.

I still would like to add a Motif or MOX to my Tyros 3 for the different sound world it would bring.

Let's not forget that when you mention an arranger to a working pro musician they cringe! & that's why you don't see them on major acts stages, all you see are Fanthom, Motif, Triton, etc, etc, ....because the workstation lets you create track by track, and with combi, prog, & arpeggiators, smf, mp3,& create songs the way YOU want them to sound ...not the typical REPETIOUN of the style parts on arranger KB...like bass lines, drums, and many style parts...then you can play on top using the best sounds there is. All the complaint you constantly read about on here about what arrangers DON'T have can be done with a good workstation if you know how or have the will to learn..is it fun? YES,.....is it intimidating at first? YES....but like anything else once you get into it it will get easier and easier and more gratifying each time you play it...I also think you will be proud of yourself also once you start to be a music "CREATOR" vs a "style operator"......these new workstations, Mo xf, Kronos, Jupiter, etc,.. are becoming more & more exciting with so many great features as arrangers dwindle down year after year...the mighty workstation will rise to the occasion every time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD8cdxxEJkI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0kpiMUOQqw&feature=related


This will give you and idea what you can do..

I'm still glad I traded in my MO8 for the Tyros 2. For a working stiff like me, I just want to sit down and play some music not read through manuals that make no sense. It would have been cool to keep both but I'm too poor...

Another point of confussion, my Tyros 2 is billed as a digital workstation. Not true? Did they just paint that on the keyboard so the pros wouldn't cringe as much? Well it didn't work. My pro friends still kind of cringe when I tell I have a T2:)

Exactly,... just a marketing strategy they came up with...like I said if you not willing to put in the time to learn the WS features and are satisfied with the repetitiveness sound of arranger styles no problem,...that's why we have choices...

here's a sample Orchestration WS Demo on Kronos...if you want to play in the style of Thelmo using a WS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GHHrp51zx4&feature=related

Ian,

Are these guys right with all this.

Tony

Hi Tony,

I suppose they are all right, depending on your perspective.

For me the arranger is a much handier tool to use than a workstation, so that's why I use a Yamaha Tyros4. I have the features of a workstation that I need, like a 16 track midi recorder (plus Audio recording), and I also have the spontaneity of having incredible editable (try saying that after half a dozen Scotch) styles.

In all my work, from recording to playing "live", the arranger allows me to work faster because I find it much easier to use.

As far as arrangers not being on TV or pro stages, I've used mine in several pro situations, and never got so much as one wayward comment that it wasn't a "pro" instrument, and quite frankly, I could care less, as I'm far busier than most pro keyboardists in my area (when I'm working-I'm off on self imposed sabbatical right now) because I can cover so many genres, and fit into so many kinds of situation, from pure solo work, to duo, trio, or whatever.

We see workstations, instead of arrangers, on stage or in bands, because usually they aren't used as workstations in that situation, but rather just a instrument that makes many types of usable sounds and that has key split ability and layering (and maybe arpeggios).

However, arrangers are used by film composers, professionals like Melissa Manchester and Sting, and are also used on Nashville Row as songwriting tools....at present the latter are using Yamaha PSR-S910

Ever since they stopped sounding too repetitive and featured great high quality usable voices, my first choice for an all-in-one keyboard has always been an arranger.

The way I see it, workstations still do not have enough arranger features, whereas , the arranger has all the workstation features I need to make a living at playing music, whether it be "live" or strictly for recording.

Right now, I'm quite content with the one instrument that does it all for me....an arranger keyboard...the awesome Yamaha Tyros4.

Great topic, Tony.

Ian

i dont know if you have tried to create a track from scracth DNJ on your arranger . The clip you posted of the Kronos can be reproduced on just about any arranger if you know how to programme and edit sounds and use your sequencer. The sounds used in the clip was a combination of strings , horns and a synth sweep pad, and a bog standard rock drum kit and a pizzacato sound. All of these are on any MOTL arranger including your psr910 (if you still have it. All you would need to know is how to edit the attack on the strings and the velocity on the horns to create that 'swell' effect and asign the resonance or brightness of the synthpad to your pitch bend wheel or joystick (on the Korg). There was absolutely nothing in that particular clip that even ythe lowliest arranger couldnt do ...if you know how to use the instrument beyond pressing the start and stop button.

As for original content. thats simply down to the skill of the musician and if you cant produce original tracjks and accompaniment on your arranger then you definately wont be able to do it on any workstation. Dont be fooled by the demo.

Most pros dont know half of what an arranger is capable of or they would most likely own one.

[quote=spalding1968]i dont know if you have tried to create a track from scracth DNJ on your arranger . The clip you posted of the Kronos can be reproduced on just about any arranger if you know how to programme and edit sounds and use your sequencer. The sounds used in the clip was a combination of strings , horns and a synth sweep pad, and a bog standard rock drum kit and a pizzacato sound. All of these are on any MOTL arranger including your psr910 (if you still have it. All you would need to know is how to edit the attack on the strings and the velocity on the horns to create that 'swell' effect and asign the resonance or brightness of the synthpad to your pitch bend wheel or joystick (on the Korg). There was absolutely nothing in that particular clip that even ythe lowliest arranger couldnt do ...if you know how to use the instrument beyond pressing the start and stop button.

As for original content. thats simply down to the skill of the musician and if you cant produce original tracjks and accompaniment on your arranger then you definately wont be able to do it on any workstation. Dont be fooled by the demo.

Most pros dont know half of what an arranger is capable of or they would most likely own one. [/quot




You are right on the money...the sequencer on good arrangers is more than capable to finish the task...There is no better all around instrument than a top model arranger keyboard...Features and sound wise, they take no backseat to any workstation only keyboard...

And I agree it takes a skill level to make useable sequences on a workstation...and if you have that skill...you can do it on an arranger with better results...and less time spent on repetive sequencing (drums etc)...The variety and ease of insert effects on the arranger is another advantage....Pros that put their noses in the air when they see an arranger...are the "biggest losers"...

Another point arppegiators do not compare to multiple tracks within an arranger style..they are completely different...

Most MOTL and TOTL arrangers, including PSR-S910 and Tyros4, have good basic sound editing, which is perfectly usuable for those times when you want to lower/raise the attack/decay/sustain/release rate, change the brightness and harmonics etc.

This is totally fine enough for 99% of editing the average user will need.

Korg arrangers offer even more editing depth, although, I must add, I'm very content with what Yamaha gives me.

Why would someone care what someone else thought about the instrument they used on a gig?

If it does an excellent job, what difference does it make?

I know it certainly doesn't bother me.

As the late Liberace used to say, "Thank you for your very amusing review. After reading it, in fact, I laughed all the way to the bank."

Ian

just to make the point. Here is a talented gentleman using his lowly yamaha psr 900 producing an orchestral piece similar to the Kronos but with much more real orchestral strings and great expression . I have yet to hear a workstation sound as real as this . I know that they must be capable . I am just making the point that the arranger can already do it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/AndrecJC#p/u/24/wBpNVtNYKcY

and here is another http://www.youtube.com/user/AndrecJC#p/u/26/i6VvV4LhIjU

and then an arranger can do this whilst a workstation simply cannot. switching from style to style seemlessley having all the setups you need instantly to hand. Goodness me i ought to be a salesman for arrangres or something !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkEQfEzNw9E

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm?...PC vs Mac comes to mind here, what was I thinking? This is the general arranger forum correct?

http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/keyboards/professional-keyboards/buying-guide.php

Donny,

Your right but sometimes we do drift off radar a little and talk about other things thats OK. Not certain I still know the real answer to my question, the man at my KB store says there is no differnce, and what the hell does he know he's only been in business for 35 years. And Donny have you explained what the difference is, well in your eyes.

Regards

Tony I guess your dealer is right.......they both have black & white keys.. but what do I know I'm only playing 52 years.

you saw for youtrself Tony in the Demos i posted just how a lowly arranger can be used as a workstation despite what other opinions have been expressed. You saw original tracks being created on an arranger. The same muscian in the clips has other recordings whgere he shows how to edit sounds and create original styles or modify existing ones. Remember this is on a lowly psr900 . If he had a Korg PA product there would be virtually limitless creative possibilities and all the tools to do it onboard the instrument.

You dont need ny further evidence. The distinction that was set up by Donny actually is not as black and white as he suggests and i say that without being disrespectful to Donny's views. I just know what i know .

Sound for sound you can't compare any of today's arrangers vs let's say a Kronos or Motif XF can you? And how do you explain the repetitivness of an arrangers styles vs programming a WS arpeggios......? Think of it as driving an automatic transmission vehicle or an expensive sports car with a stick shift.

http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/synthesizers/motif_xf/

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-i...os4/?mode=model

http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=598

you have made that sattement blindly. As far as real world sounds go any TOTL arranger can compete hread to head with any wprkstation period and in a lot of cases because of super articlulation , they will sound better even compared to the same makers workstation. The Motif Xf does not have SA and cannot compare in terms of real world sounds to the tyros.

Listen to the korg Kronos nylon string guitar i heard one played in Jamal Hartwells demo of the Kronos. It was quite poor and i was quite taken a back. I would love to own a kronos for all kinds of reasons but if you listen to http://www.youtube.com/user/GospelMusicians#p/u/1/ZPVVu0rgRKY at 4.12 you will hear an example of the guitar and hear immediately how poor it compares to say your psr 910, I know Jamal is a keyboard player and he is playing this nylon string guitar like a piano but it sounds poor compared to even the lowest PSR yamaha.

now i dont want to get away from the points you made.we can debate sound palletts all day long but with the sampling capabilities on both workstations and arrangers it just a moot point as you can put whatever sounds you like to a degree on both.

All that you said about a workstaion in terms of creating original tracks from scratch and getting away from repetitive baselines and using the best sounds is true of pretty much all the TOTL arrangers . All you have to do is use the tools on the arranger.

I dont think you have ever programmed an Arpegiator or you would know the same skill is required to program a style track. The workstation does not crreate the content all by itself !!

you said of workstations

All the complaint you constantly read about on here about what arrangers DON'T have can be done with a good workstation if you know how or have the will to learn..is it fun? YES,.....is it intimidating at first? YES....but like anything else once you get into it it will get easier and easier and more gratifying each time you play it...I also think you will be proud of yourself also once you start to be a music "CREATOR" vs a "style operator"......'

You are exactly right but i would aply those words t learning to use your arranger fully a opposed to just playing the stock sounds and styles.

And the example you posted of the Kronos is easily replicated by any arranger wiythout any difficulty at all. the same skills are applied and the same knowledge of editing sounds and laying down sequenced tracks apply.

is that fair comment Donny ?

Hi Spalding

I am not sure what sound system you are using to hear the demos, but there must be something seriously wrong with it if you cannot hear how more real the Kronos sounds are compared to an arranger. (In fact if you said this to any Korg arranger guy who knew the insides of Korgs Arrangers, he would look at you in absolute total disbelief)

The orchestral pieces you posted links to are nice, but they are not close sounding to a real orchestra, (If you don’t believe me, pop over to the Symphony Hall not far from you and have a listen to a real orchestra and you will find there is no comparison) whereas the sounds you can get from a Workstation are much closer, and if you use VSTi (Which all studios and film makers use) the sounds are as close as you can get using a keyboard.

Articulation of instruments has been around in VST for over 10 years and probably 5 years or more in workstations; however the articulations have always been triggered manually as when using a sequence your left hand is free to activate them. What Yamaha did to get round this problem was to automate it so that a lot of the work was done for you, (And you can’t argue that they have not done a cracking job) but it’s pre-programmed whereas on Workstations and VSTi allow you to set it up as you want, which makes a big difference. (Not forgetting they have way more articulations available to use)

Kronos is a brilliant concept as effectively if gives you the equivalent of a number of VSTi in a box with all the advantages this brings, the only downside being that you can only use what Korg give you.

Orchestral sounds well; if you can’t hear the difference between the ones below and an arranger, you really do have serious sound problems.

The Audition

Main Demo

Symphonic-Orchestra

VSL

Regarding the diffrences between Arrangers and Workstaions, my origional post still stands.

Enjoy whatever you play

Bill

Well said, Spalding, and I agree with your points of view entirely.

Ian

Exactly Bill there is a major difference thank you for the demos.. Action Adventure & The Summoning blew me away WOW!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8pUiq1Twkg&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EGQ6puV_YA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZMYTci5Ogw&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GA9G41azCI&feature=related

and I've also heard that one of the tools Yamaha uses is the MOTIF XF to make the styles for the Tyros 4 ?

if any arranger kb can sound like this I would love to hear it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-Xfm_5Wuqc&feature=related

Taiki Imaizumi, chief design engineer of the Kronos project.

There are differences, Tony, but the bottom line is that we use whatever instrument works best for our needs.

For solo (or duo) "live" play, the arranger wins out by a long way, in my opinion, unless you're one of those Karaoke type entertainers who only really need a good SMF player, and something that they can fake playing on now and again.

An arranger or a workstation will work in that situation.

For those of us who play live as a solo act, I still feel the arranger is the better deal, although, it is generally more expensive.

As far as using VST's etc., I really can't see the need with the Tyros4, as it has stunning sounds to suit every genre and every occasion, although adding sounds is still possible if one needs something really special, as evidenced by Telmo's incredible pieces.

Ever since arrangers started using sounds that were the equivalent of workstations, plus styles that had character and realism, my choice for solo work has always been the arranger, specifically Yamaha arrangers.

Ian

I forgot to add for pro use the workstations at least give you a choice 61,76,88 keys to create music which is a big deal for many pro Players glad to see KORG & KETRON have a 76 also.

Well said, Fran....we don't always agree, but we do in this regard.

And you are spot on when you say, "Pros that put their noses in the air when they see an arranger...are the "biggest losers".

I can accomplish far more with an arranger than I could with a workstation (which I've used extensively) and in less than half the time.

And in "live " play...there's nothing that will touch a TOTL/MOTL arranger for pure ease of use and great results...and all one has to do is read the posts/threads on this General Arranger Forum (it's not a Workstation forum) to see how many ways it can be used and in so many varied situations.

Long Live The Arranger!

Ian

Abacus i cant tell if you and donny are deliberately missing the point or you are both just bindsided by the words 'arranger'.

You cant post links of orchestral voices using VSTs to make a point about the quality of sounds as most workstations (including the Kronos ) are not able to use VSTs other than those connected to a computer and guess what.....an arranger can do the same !!

Donny posted up a demo of th korg Kronos being used to play a previously sequenced track using rock drums, strings , pads, a brass sound and a pizzicato sound. What element of that cant be done on ANY ,ABSOLUTELY ANY ARRANGER ?

Just before Donny posted the clip of the Kronos ironically he said in relation to the marketing of the tyros as a workstation. I hope you spot the irony :

'Exactly,... just a marketing strategy they came up with...like I said if you not willing to put in the time to learn the WS features and are satisfied with the repetitiveness sound of arranger styles no problem,...that's why we have choices...

here's a sample Orchestration WS Demo on Kronos...if you want to play in the style of Thelmo using a WS'

So here we have donny posting a demo of a workstation to illustrate what has already been done on a tyros arranger 4 by telmo !!! I hope you get the irony..... the workstation cant change key instantly like the tyros , cant change chords like the tyros (well note properly anyway), it cant substitute the style immediately with another at the same tempo pretty much instantly , it cant go back to the chorus or verse again at the whim of the player....infact it cant mimic the arranger at all ( ok it can in a fashion) !! The Tyros has nothing to fear from the Kronos. But in the clip i posted the arranger EXACTLY mimiced the workstation !! The musician built up tracks separately one track at a time , drums, strings etc just like the workstation....

Did you listen to the Kronus clip i posted demonstrating the nylon string guitar ??? What did you think of it ?

Have you undestood the point ???? or does the spirit of
Diki live on ?????

Arrangers and workstations are two different instruments. An workstation can do things an arranger can't for example the Kronos has Karma and arrangers can do things a workstation can't.

Combining the 2 is the best I think but personally I prefer only an arranger and maby on top an module or labtop for extra sounds.

ok so it's final...The Tyros 4 is the best sounding arranger workstation Kb ever made in the world today......I am so glad we got that all straightened out! Thank you

The question is very simple.....

If i added the option to play styles on the Kronos, would that make the Kronos an arranger?

Most would call it an arranger then.....


So the answer is very simple.... an Arranger is nothing else then a workstation with Styles added (including intro/ending/fill)...


The only thing that got me wondering is why they don't add some of the high end Workstation features to Arrangers... (sounddesign /tweakabillity /arpeggios /KARMA /Synthengines/vector stick /ribbon controller /Computer integration)

Why does Yamaha still think that a TOTL arranger doesn't need the stuff they put in their MOTIF line?

I love the way you and Donny just side step the points i raised in my previous post and move on to something else :-)

Was there anything in the example that you saw done in the clip Donny posted of the Kronos workstation that any arranger could not have done ?

Of coures the weight and detail of the features will be different as the arrager market and the workstation market share many aspects of making music but have different customer profiles, price ranges and feature requirements . One is aimed at live performance play and another at live and studio integration. But both are capable to a greater or lessor degree of both live play and studio play .They are two different markets , each with different profit margins and buying characteristics etc . We have danced this dance countless times before .

What is common between them is that if you have musical ability you can create original music content in similar ways on either an arranger or workstation but you are hamstrung if you wish to use styles or create your own styles on a workstation

The point i hope i have clearly made is that all that is required to do most of the stuff Donny talked about in terms of creating original musical content in both arranger and workstation is talent. Period.

As this thread developes please dont miss this point.

- Stellar sound Quallity of Piano/synth/pad and many others..
- Sound dessign.. the synth engines allow you to create your own sounds, rather then to use the same as everyone elese (arranger)
- Flexibillity of KARMA is way beyound arranger stylesas a composing tool
- Vector stick and ribbon controller and the use of the touchscreen as a controller... allow much more controll over your performance
- The Kronos can run as a VST in your computers VST host..
- HD recording is way beyound anything available in arrangers..

How many more points do you need?

Hi Spalding

Finally you get it!

An arranger is great for knocking things up quick (On the fly so to speak) but can be customised to an extent to the player’s requirement.

The Workstation is infinitely flexible (Way beyond any arranger on the market today) and is thus ideal for band and studio work.

Both of the above is what I said in my very first post, when the question was asked what is the difference between an Arranger and a Workstation,

Regarding the questions in your previous post:

Many of the sound engines used in the Kronos are available as VSTi, it plays voices like VSTi, the screen layouts and operation is just like the various VSTi, in fact it is effectively a pre-set VSTi player/Host, so it is perfectly legitimate to compare it with VST instruments.

Regarding the link to the Kronos Nylon Guitar, I couldn’t find it with the link you posted; the only thing I heard was a bit of steel guitar and distortion guitar as he passed through some of the voices.

Bill

Bachus all very valid points...!

Again it's all a marketing strategy..... give people MORE choices they BUY more... ever go in a supermarket and see LITE Salad Dressing AND Salad Dressing? or Regular Cigarettes, Lite Cigarettes, Menthol, etc, ?...same scenario....more sales that way... under heavy scrutiny Yamaha still will not make a 76 key Tyros...they lose a few sales?...so what ...in the oerall keyboard picture they still make a hugh profit worldwide way above all the others.

And I hear many musicians on the Motifator forum squawk about not having features and functions on the Motif the Tyros 4 has. The T4 costs more than the Motif; the acoustic sounds are somewhat better on the T4; the Super Articulation is better on the T4, and of course the styles are much more robust.

Given the choice between a Motif, a Kronos or a Tyros4, I'd take the latter in a heartbeat (hey, I already did!)

The Tyros4 is perfect for my performing needs...the other two would be far too much work...that's why they're called Workstations.

If you want to work, get a Workstation, but, if you want to be able to sit down and just play to your heart's content, with little or no fuss, the arranger is the keyboard for you.

Ian

Is this the twilight zone or something???????

Bacchus . In the clip Donny posted showing what was good about the Kronos Workstation as opposed to an arranger , did you:

. Hear Karma being used ? If so where . I know it was not being used in that track
. did you hear any piano being used ? If so where. I know there was no piano used in that track.
. could you tell if the vector stick or ribbon controler was being used at all?
. Were VST's being used ? which one please tell me.
.Was HD recording a feature of the demo ? Tell me how you know !
. Did the user design all those sounds ? How can you tell. Can those sounds or something similar be produced on a bog standard arranger ? If you had a some sound creation knowledge most definately yes !
. Were 9 synth engines being used to produce that demo ? if so its eems 8 were completely wasted !!!

This is what i mean about folks being blindsided everytime the word ' arranger ' or 'Workstation' is used !!!

Bacchus. None of the differences that you have pointed to make one jot of difference , i repeat not one jot to the fact that an arranger could do what that Kronos was used to do in the clip Donny posted. We can argue about the quality of sounds all day but the functions are identical. you select a sound, you edit the sound to your tastes, you switch on the sequencer , you record the track. Then you start on te next track, and thge next until you have created your song. Do i need 9 synth engines to do that ? Do i need a vector stick,ribbon controller ,breath controller , firewire, VST's , conectivity to ipad and a thousand useless apps to do that ??? NO !!! These are just extra stuff that people may choose to use or dont use. They have nothing , again i repeat nothing to do with the functioning and use of a workstation and nothing to do with the creation of the Kronos track you heard (thats if you actually listened to it ) and the similar track i posted up produced on a lowly psr900.

You see when folks start talking about irrelevant features that have nothing to do with making original music whcich is what Donny was imply cannot be done on an arranger but could be done on a workstation ,it simply tells me they either dont know how to use what they already have , Or they dont have the talent to make music.

there it is, i said it !! Sue me !

Thats the elephant in the room that folks are tripping over and politely calling lumpy carpet :-)

Thanks for the talk. My comments are not meant to offend but i know some will take offense so i will let the thread run on . I cant make myself any clearer.





Did you read the text you qouted ????

Sorry Bill i missed your post.

can i use the Kronos to play the VST's you posted above without the use of a computer ?????? I dont think so....

Can i use the same VSts with an arranger without a computer ????? i dont think so . What is the enabler ????

The computer !!!!

also

'Regarding the link to the Kronos Nylon Guitar, I couldn’t find it with the link you posted; the only thing I heard was a bit of steel guitar and distortion guitar as he passed through some of the voices.'

did you liten at 4.12 in the clip. If you did and you thought what you heard a steel guitar....either your sound system neds updating or it proves the point of how bad the NYLON string sounded. I used that example because that is what is being discussed on the Korg forum in the Kronos section.

Hi Spalding

It’s easy to miss a post when the thread drifts off the main topic, however hopefully it will now come back to the original question.

You are correct it cannot use external VSTi, but like the previous OASYS it’s only because Korg do not enable it. Both appear to be based on the Linux OS, (From what I can gather) and disk streaming requires high speed data transfer which is easily achieved with computer hardware, not the typical workstation data bus, effectively the Kronos is a closed Lionstracs Mediastion where all the software has been designed by Korg, rather than a mixture of 3rd party software as used on the Mediastion.

I use my arranger/organ with VSTi without any external equipment, so yes, there is.

The display does show a Nylon Guitar, however there is something on the screen after it which I can’t make out, however if you watch this video here from about 10.03, you should see what is going on, also have a listen to this video here which shows a real guitar for a comparison, and you will note that neither the T4 or Kronos giving an accurate portrayal of this guitar. (Remember there are many different sounding guitars out there, so just because the one shown in the demo doesn’t suit you, it’s probably an accurate rendition of the guitar it was modelled on)

Bill

Pro musicians in BAND....do not want or need an arranger...but that same musician if he/she were working by themselves and if they gave it a chance would love an arranger. I've had both...a Kurzweil K2600X and arrangers...for me I can do my 'thing' with an arranger and not a workstation.
Actaually...go listen to a few bands...do you even hear the keyboard player? NO, unless they are doing a solo (rare) or playing piano real loud. You sure do hear the drums, and distortion guitare, that is to drown out the singers in those bands so we don't hear that they can not sing! But they jump around a lot! If you want to hear some great keybords go listen to Bee Gees. They really value the Kurzweils they play.
As we know..the arrangers can also be used fine as a WS...just turn off the arranger and play full keyboard mode. But, why would a band guy pay more $$ for an arranger...not.
Remember the home Organ was the predesessor to the arranger, we left hand had accomanyment in the 1960's including drums. And it was good for that time. Or we used a sideman (drum machine).
It was Piano or Organ...now it's WS (or Piano) or arranger. Seems you are either a Apple or an Orange guy? (some are both)