I have been asked by our band director to fill in for her next week. In the summer, we are down to 6-8 members including a drummer that used to play in big bands and no bass player.

Naturally, I leave the arranger rhythm off and play whatever instruments needed. However, she suggested that I play like I would in soloing, and let the band follow me.

The drummer is delighted with the idea but am leery of the rest of the band keeping in time. If I keep it in var A, maybe.

Have any of you tried this ?

I do it all the time. The drummer needs a good monitor and has to tread lightly on his bass drum. The machine is boss - no exceptions in this case, so if they can't follow - they should lay out or play very quietly. Some people can't play in strict time, and they get huffy when they have to try .... Just tell all your band mates that they need to take new roles as supportive players, and solo where they can, but blend with the ryhthms. If they all listen to the machine, it will sound great. We do it with a 10 piece band sometimes.
It's all about listening and following.

Uncle Dave,

Easy peezy lemon squeezy:

You make it sound so easy I wish you were my uncle, I would look up to you, since I am only 5ft4".

How did your 4th July bash go, you didn't respond to my blessing to you all did you.

Too busy getting busy and drunk, hey?

Cheers Dave

Thanks UD
Very good advice.

Bernie

Then they better quit making music with other people....

Another suggestion that works great for me: ask the drummer if he or she wouldn't mind playing percussion intruments (congas,bongos, shakers....) or drum set with brushes/muti rod sticks. This will add nice color and the timing challenges will not be such a huge issue.

Have the drummer use one ear bud-to listen to the arranger-if he has the correct volume in his 'one ear monitor' he should be able to play along in time with the arranger & the other members should be able to follow the arranger if they have a good monitor-its something you have to experiment with.

Gord

In my set up I am using my Bose as the only amplifier, which I will place close to the drummer. The others are just the other side of him. I suppose I could get out in front if visual queues became necessary. Both horn players are in their eighties with hearing aids.

I like the idea of the drummer using alternate percussive instruments where my style drums are better. I have turned off the drums and left on the bass, but can vary it.

I will try it out on them Monday, the week before, to make sure the old farts can hear me.

Bernie

If the drummer is worth his salt, he'll recognize that percussion playing is no less of an art form than drum set playing. There is a reason why cats like Luis Conte are played thousands of dollars an hour to lay down shaker, maracas, tamborine, cowbell, and other "small/minor" percussion parts.

He is a great guy and a team player. No problem with him

You should be fine if the drummer is a good listener, and it will add a lot to the mix.
Tony - I had 4 dates at the New Jersey Shore over the 4th holiday, and not a drop of hooch while I'm workin!
Thanx for the well wishes - I'd love to visit your place sometime .. I'm dying to travel somewhere where I can still communicate without an interpreter.
(Like Kentucky USA - good thing I have my good pal Russ when I'm out there!)

Or, at least only play with others who don't keep strict time either!
I have always said that EVERY drummer should own, and practice with a drum machine or click track. Why should everyone have to follow the drummer anyway? It's no more or less important than any other instrument in the band, right? Everone needs to be proficient on their instrument, and that includes KEEPING TIME. I've been spoiled all these years with machines - I can count off BPMs pretty close.

Dave is right. Drummers...ALL drummers need to be able to play with a click track...even when an arranger isn't used.

Having a drummer switch to all percussion instruments when an arranger is used, and change his attitude to one who SWEETENS usually results in more fun, variety and an all-round better product.

Takes some getting used to (for the drummer), but most I've used really learn to like it!


Russ

(PS-Dave, I'd really enjoy another visit...anytime!

Played a 'tribute' to a departed former band member last year ... his 15 year old grandson played drums, our sax player, and I used my technics arranger - sometimes with little accomp, sometimes with more, depending on the song ... had a good monitor for the drummer, with the kb bass volume up ... this kid NEVER missed a beat ...

Russ - I need another vacation ... just can't get the time off! Come up here sometime! At least we'll have good coffee and jam sessions!

There you go again, knocking the "horse piss" coffee!' You can only get it in Kentucky, you know. And I had is brewed especially for you!

R.

Horse piss???? Where was THAT? I would have probably enjoyed THAT brew! (compared to the river sludge that you call coffee out there!)
I love ya, man!

DITTO!


R.

Bernie9,

Here is my take on this (as this is how we play most of the time).

1. Do not mike the KICK/BASS Drum of the Drummer. As great as a drummer may be, it is very VERY hard to accurately match both the kick from the Arranger and that from the drummer. He can play it to help him keep 'time', but your audience should hear just the Arranger kick. This way, any dubble 'Thumps' are eliminated from the PA.

2. Avoid using the FILL-INS from the ARRANGER. Have the DRUMMER do these 'LIVE'. They add a lot more to your performance and also reduce the 'redundancy' a regular ARRANGER might create after a while.

3. Having a good monitor with just the ARRANGER DRUMS and a little of the DRUMMER's Drums right next to the Drummer is a good idea - gives him/her a better feel for where they are in the mix - especially with timing.

4. If using the KETRON AUDYA, use MIDI DRUMS, rather than LIVE DRUMS (where and when applicable). This gives the DRUMER more 'space' to play rather than him fighting with ... yes, another DRUMMER! Also, when using MIDI DRUMS, you can instanly mute other 'redundant' parts!

Just my suggestions on how to handle this.

Thanks,

AJ

AJ
Thank you for responding.

In my case, nothing is mic'd to a PA send, but I overlooked the kick duplication. I will set up next to the drummer so he will hear me loud and clear.

As far as fill ins are concerned, I am doing my own manual lead in's and have reduced the styles to drums, bass, and rhythm guitar except for Latin. KISS.

Thanks

I thought I would report back on my use of arranger styles with my band.

The first and second time I used my G-70 and they were getting on to it pretty well. The third time I brought my Audya and it made all the difference in the world. The styles with life drums, bass, and guitars really cut through without being in any way obtrusive.

I had many favorable comments.

Bernie

Hi Bernie, great to read that.
What instruments (in addition to the Audya played by you) were played by the other band members?
Did you record any of your Audya and/or G70 sessions performed with your live band?
It would be nice to be able to see and/or hear that.

Scott

I suspect your band-mates are pretty good players, Bernie, as not everyone can play along with the strict time of an arranger.

Glad to hear it worked out for you, especially with the Audya.

I sometimes play with another person; he plays guitar and is hip to the arranger strictness.

Actually, when the extra players get used to it, they start playing "off the beat" a little, because they always know when the next one is coming.

That really gives it a nice loose and "live" feel.

Ian

Scott

In the summer, we are down to:
2 sax
1 clar
2 trump
1 drummer
1 guitar
1 trom (occasionally)

I am afraid no recording

Ian

I know what you mean. At first, they were just getting used to it. At the last session, they started to take some liberties with the time and a couple of times they went off. I had to come in louder and staighten them out. Towards the end they played a couple of riffs and came right back.

The first thing I had to do is make sure I gave a solid intro they could hear and keep the groove loud enough, but not overpowering.

It is tricky, but a lot of fun.

Bernie

Bernie, I played with a drummer, a sax man and a trombone player, it was a disaster. The suggestion of the drummer playing percussion instruments adding to your drums is best. Who needs two drummers?

I found playing with a bass player comfortable. A percussionist is fine, a solo instrument works well and so does a bass if that’s a must.

People/musicians do not listen to a keyboard as they would listen to a band – and try to fit in. In Dave’s case, he must have a good sensitive drummer. Amen!

John C.

Hi John

In response, I have heard a few double kicks and cautioned the drummer to lay off the kick. My role as leader is only temorary while the director is out, so I can't fire the drummer. You are right, but I can't very well hand him a Kazoo.

As far as keyboard not being listened to, I play the dominant role with different instruments. I am holding the whole thing together.

If I was doing this on a regular basis ony a few would be with me, and would handle it differently.