The sky is falling!!
Not, arrangers are still extremely popular in many countries--just not the U.S.
Love my Korg PA4X. If they never come out with another arranger, I'm happy with what I have.

that's the way to think and a very true statement...there's definitely a reason it's been so long to see a new model from anyone ....
a big reason..

I do agree... i love my music tools, arrangers, arpeggiators, multipads...and modern day sequencers with clip luanching..

But at the end of the day, nothing beats playing a digital piano on top of a simple drumbeat... (sometimes adding a bassplayer and a guitar... or layering a sound or two and some effects with the piano...)

Where it comes to synth lessons for the youth... there are more lessons available on programming synths then that there are on actually playing them.. (the young learn their stuff on youtube). What they actually need are a real teacher that encourages them, and learns them how to improve their playing... we all know that repetition makes the master... and now thats where the youth in Holland goes wrong..they dont like repeating things unless they are fun and offer immediate rewards...


And while i agree young musicians should go back to the basics.. they also need something that makes, the little progress at the piano they will make at the early stages, fun. An arranger is one of the tools that can be really helpfull to make beginners sound good, and keep them going..



Back to the OP.... i dont see a future for the arrangers we know today... but there is a future for what we know as an arranger... that future is becomming one of the tools a keyboardist can use to make music...

The future of great sounding keyboards is a "dedicated" hardware interface for controlling sounds created in a computer,... to know what i mean, every keyboardist should have a chance to sit down with spectrasonics keyscape... it has the ultimate EP collection... giving you the realisme of playing the real things... and then some tools to create a backing... because most homeplayers dont have the option to play and jam in a band...

Donny is making this forum better by his constant presence. He keeps adding whatever comes to his mind—and that’s what this place is about.

As I read through all the posts on this topic I find my feelings are changing; they’re not the same feelings because I am not the same. In the past getting a new keyboard meant more options. I press this and this happens. This new styles fits this song. I did this for many years and I got better and better. Better at what?

I believe arrangers, are losing popularity. Check the buy and sell listing. Manufactures do their best to give us more options; and we sit and apply the new options – just as I written above. There are times when I feel arranger playing is close to paint-by-numbers. I sold my favorite keyboard with great sounds four times. Why? The styles were getting boring; the same styles I loved year before.

Sad to say that most of the songs which were created on an arranger keyboard all kinda all sound the same minus the tempo and style. One song started with a sax – ended with the same sax, and the middle part was the same sax – A N D the same band that started the song and ended the song.

I don’t mean to sound like sour grapes; I did the same thing – Get my 200 songs ready for the job, check the tempo and the solo instruments and I’m off.

I know what a band sounds like – I hear what is happening in these bands as they go through the song – volume changes, different instruments – they use the band as a toll to create a feeling. I give Dave one big cheer; he told me how he used a bouton on the keyboard the cut everything but the bass and drums. That leaves my left and right hand up front – and now you can sing your first chorus without me getting in the way. And toward the end we’re in there doing all we can to bring excitement.

Sorry, I’ve been in bed with a cold for a week and this is taking my mind to a nicer place.

When I get a new keyboard my joy is to find what I need to express what I am feeling. It is not to follow the feeling of a created style, and do my best to make it fit. If I do that, then an arranger keyboard will become boring; and the people listen will turn away – and yes they will decrees in sales and popularity.

It’s us guys not them. A keyboard is just a tool. What you add makes the difference. I am a Sinatra fan; the other day I had his music on for two hours. I turned it off because I got bored listening to him.

John C.

Thanx Bruno,....I feel your pain,...the creative process can be so many thing,s to so many people,
done in so many ways, but the end result is "always" what it sounds like, musically & vocally....

No different than a live band. When I go to hear my favorite band they play the same songs, in the same style, with the same sax player, drummer etc. every time I go to see them. That's why I go to see them.

PS:.......and our duo gets the same amount of money as the full band.

Regards,

Jerryghr

Yep!

I used to have a full band, but the drummer got the same money as the musicians did, so I went solo!

Over the years I've expressed some of the same opinions as John C. and Donny (above)---except that when I say it, I'm a arranger keyboard HATER. Hmmm, guess it does depend on the messenger. The truth is, those staunch defenders of the arranger keyboard, particularly those who can't play anything else, will continue to live in denial until they draw their last breath. I truly believe that when the current crop of 60-90yr olds dies off, so will the arranger keyboard. Lack of interest, resulting in lack of sales, resulting in lack of any meaningful technological development, resulting in even LESS interest, will sound the death knell. When this happens, a 'cherry' B3 will still sell for 15k and a 50 yr old Steinway grand will still fetch 20k. They will be purchased by those who (in the words of Uncle Dave) HAVE studied 'harmony, theory, phrasing, etc.

The closer you get to creating an instrument that ANYBODY can utilize to produce professional quality music, the more you DILUTE everthing associated with craftsmanship, musicianship, creativity, and the GENUINE quality that comes from 'putting in the work'. Sure, guys like Telmo sound terrific, but one can tell in about 30 seconds that they've 'put in the work', and would probably put out some pretty good stuff with only an old MiniMoog and a beat up Prophet5. Have you noticed lately how many of the old codgers on this board have expressed their joy in re-discovering (gulp) PIANOS, and acoustic guitars. Looks like the chickens of technology are finally coming home to roost.

JMO, of course.

chas

Chas, nice. Jerry I need to put more clarity in what I have said. I went from “Are Arranger Keyboards losing popularity to, How to make our keyboards more exciting; more desirable.

The first thing to keep in mind is if you have only played an arranger keyboards what I am going to explain will be hard to understand. After playing with a live band for 40 years, and then playing with an arranger keyboard, and with an electric drum, the feel was not only different; but also annoying. It has the same effect a compressor does to a voice; it limits.

First thing I did was to check the tempo at the beginning of a recorded song; and then the end. The tempo increased depending on the type of song. Most Latin music does not vary. There are some classical orchestra that raise the pitch and in turn the tempo of the recording. In those days you could not do one without the other. The results brighter and more exciting. Keep in mind that you would not hear the change but you would feel it.

4/4 beat – guitar playing on all 4 beats. There are 3 ways for the guitar player to strum the 4 beats. On the beat – a little before the beat – and a little after. The change is slight, cannot be measured but can be felt. Let's called this feel. When playing an upbeat the guitar player plays just before the beat giving a feeling of anticipation. When he plays after the beat, like in a slow ballad a laid back fell is produced.

I told my drummer to hold us back no matter what – at the same time I played just before each beat. The result was a slight change in tempo – because we were in the last part of the song our volume increased also. Excitement, Excitement.

All that to say this: When the beat is ridged without variation you lose some of your music losing some of the ability to feel. The first time I used an electric drum machine I could not reach the crowd, but I knew I wanted to kill the drummer.

My point – there are things we can do to our arrangers that will help us take back some of what they take away from us. (Starting with the bass line) You can not measure the slight change, but you can feel them.

Again; if you have never been in both places; live band and arranger keyboard, this will not make much sense. AND this is not for everyone.

John C.
PS, I did not read his over when I wrote this, sorry if errors.