Interesting discussion...


2) I've got the cleanest, most powerful sound of anyone who comes around...

I know for a fact there are other acts in my area who use stereo systems, so I'm curious why that doesn't elevate them above my basic sound quality?

I miss the gorgeous stereo panning when I use the L1, but to me, its a different kind of good. I'm with everyone who feels stereo is the way to go, but I maintain a mono system properly set up, with instruments properly set up, can sound very, very good. I know there's a big difference to my ears, but for the most part, the difference may stop there.

I think the majority have come to the final conclusion, if it looks like a stereo KB, if it’s got Left & Right speaker sockets like a stereo KB, then it must be stereo KB and it was meant to be played in stereo like a stereo KB, if you want to drive only one side of your KB that’s OK.

Bose make some hellish good gear and no doubt the L1 Compact is good, it certainly cost enough, top dollar, its less for you to lug around , your audiences are not discerning enough to ever know the difference between mono and stereo, so you carry on , in the UK we have a saying “whatever floats your boat”.

Bill could you tell us what cleanest is in sound terms, I am so stupid and deaf I wouldn’t have a clue.

I think it is all subjective and the others who come around, bet they just can't sing good.


Regards

Tony

It can happen, Bill...using a stereo system (two Bose L1's) elevated my sound above the others who used mono systems. When I did my summer long theater stint using a lowly S910 and a pair of Bose L1's, I was consistently told how much better the sound was compared to the other two keyboardists who used one of the house systems, which was in mono.

I suspect it also helped that I was using Bose L1's, as the stereo sweet spot was huge...I checked it out myself using a recording I had done, and it didn't seem to matter where I stood, I could distinguish stereo separation, although, admittedly, much stronger from middle aisle to the front row.

I missed the gorgeous stereo sound so much when I tried using one Bose L1, I wouldn't even think of not using two. My sound is the most important aspect of my performance, along with good material and an equally well prepared (and well rehearsed) set...I don't skimp on anything any more as I've learned over my many years of playing, that "the devil is in the details".

As has been said earlier, it depends on if you can live with the mono sound and still feel content with what you produce.

Several here seem quite happy to use mono Bose, several others wouldn't dream of it, and this topic always ends this way...it's been discussed many times here on SZ and other forums as well.

I will say, that on the Yamaha forums, the vast majority use stereo systems, including the professional entertainers, so the Yamaha-esque phase cancellation in mono is well known and in most cases, avoided at all costs, so it seems it is obviously something important to consider if one wants optimum sound from one's stereo arranger keyboard.



I agree Tony...arrangers (especially Yamaha)they are meant to be played in stereo, but, in some cases, the audiences "are not discerning enough to ever know the difference between mono and stereo".

In my case, in a relatively more formal theatre setting, the audience did know the difference, and so did I.

But as you say in the UK...“whatever floats your boat”.

If it works for his/her needs, and the mono sound isn't much of an issue, a player using one Bose will save a considerable amount of money (great for the more frugal amongst us) and also nearly halve the set up time, usually important when doing several gigs a day.

In my case, I had lots of time to set up, I couldn't live with the mono sound, so it was with two L1's I went a-playing...and, I am very glad I did....it made the whole experience so much better for all concerned.


Ian

Yes Ian, I should add that to my knowledge no other single act in this area uses a double L1 system. There's a popular duo that does, I'm told.

Same is true here, and in most locations I've visited over the past five years, Bill. I probably have heard two dozen or more OMB entertainers using a single L1, or a single L1 Compact, and NONE would consider going back to a conventional sound system--STEREO OR NOT! There's just no comparison.


I'm not surprised, Bill, as many of the acts in my area don't even use one Bose L1 because two are way too expensive, and one is very unflattering (in my opinion, and in the opinion of quite a few more I might add).


Unflattering is not a word that anyone I know in this business that would be used to describe a single L1 or L1 Compact when used in conjunction with ANY keyboard, Ian. Sorry, that just don't cut it with any of the performers I come in contact with on a regular basis. Sure, home players and those that may do an occasional music job may believe they MUST HAVE stereo in order to sound good to their audiences, but this has never been the case--even with Yamaha. Keep in mind that I'm a major Yamaha fan, but their Grand Piano has never been the top of the heap, and never provided that full, robust sound that you would hear from a grand piano--stereo or mono. On the other hand, both you and Scott Yee primarily use the grand piano voice, and without stereo, Yamaha's grand piano falls flat on it's a$$. At most, on this forum, there may be a half-dozen, full-time performers that MUST HAVE stereo. The rest of us seem to do extremely well with mono.

Bill, it's fine by me that you find the single Bose L1 is suitable for your needs...unfortunately, many of us Yamaha players who like to hear, and have the audience hear, the arranger it as it should sound, in, as you say, "glorious stereo" don't agree.

WHAT STEREO? Just how much separation do you think that audience hears--if any. Sure, the stereo piano sounds a bit fuller, but that's pretty much the extent of it. Take the time to carefully analyze those onboard and third-party styles and you'll find that most of the voices used in the style's makeup are equally balanced, thus they are mono--NOT STEREO! Therefore, if the styles are basically mono, then the only thing that can really be stereo is your right hand voices. How many right-hand voices other than the grand piano are truly stereo sampled?


I don't know about you Bill, but I'll take "glorious stereo" anytime over one-dimensional mono, and if I can't manage two Bose L1's to rent/buy for the season, I'll happily work with the next best thing, which is a Yamaha Stagepass 500 stereo PA system (or it's equivalent in another brand).

Having used the Stagepass 500 for two days, I can honestly say it should not be mentioned in the same sentence with the Bose systems--there's no comparison at all. TO ME, it sounded distorted throughout the entire range of frequencies, the falloff was horrendous, and the bottom end was lousy.

I know you are fussy on your sound and your presentation, and you probably put on a very good performance, but, I honestly can't imagine working that hard to perfect a show, and then sending it out in un-glorious mono to the listening audience.


Ian, this isn't our first rodeo. The vast majority of Bose system users have been there and done that more times than we care to talk about. We've spent thousands upon thousands of dollars trying to find the perfect sound systems, systems that provide us with the most accurate reproduction of not only our instruments, but our vocals as well. The cost is almost inconsequential--it's the final product that counts most. We query our audiences and employers on a regular basis to determine if there is something we, as OMB entertainers and musicians, can do better. I can honestly say without a doubt that 99.9 percent of our respondents say "Don't change a thing!" We spend, and do, what it takes to provide the best of the best for our audiences, including those in Nursing Homes and assisted living centers. It's not "Glorious Stereo"--it's a lot better than that.

If you were using another brand of arranger, which does not have phase cancellation problems (like a Korg PA or Roland G-70) I would say using an L1 would probably do the job admirably (although still a little weak in mids) but I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree about using a single L1 with a Yamaha arranger.

As I said earlier, I'm not about to try and get someone to switch or change what they are happy with using, but since I am connected with Yamaha (in a very small way) I feel it's important to make those considering a purchase of a single Bose L1 to use with their Yamaha arranger, aware of any potential problems or unsatisfactory performance.


If you're not trying to get someone to switch to another system, then why did you bother to mention that Stagepass 500? Whoops! Wouldn't it be better to tell those to whom you are demonstrating Yamaha keyboards that the only limitations of playing a Yamaha arranger keyboard are with Yamaha's stereo sampled grand piano, which even in stereo sounds a bit thin and lack mid range quality?



I'm sure if you were in my position, you would do the same.

Ian

No, I wouldn't!

Gary