Tek,

Looks like you enjoy a good verbal match, me too, but no hard feelings.

The original poster asked the difference between a workstation and a synth.

<< I thought it was clear that all workstations include a proper synthesizer. Unless you're talking about those awful home keyboards and the groovebox crap (not just Roland's). >>

Using your above comment then it would appear to me that the answer to the original question would be: "a workstation is a synth with added features", since all workstations are synths.

<< A synth doesn't nessessarily have anything extra, which can be a very good thing, depending on the studio you already have.<<

Sooo, if you have a studio that already has the extras, a synth would reasonably make a better "workstation" than a workstation would, for if you have a workstation you would have redundant equipment that was not desirable. <> (as in your comment)

< Unless you're talking about those awful home keyboards and the groovebox crap (not just Roland's).>

My synth is a Kurzweil, the other two keyboards are Yamaha, one being a piano. None of these are "crap" but I know what you mean. It is a standing joke between my husband and I that we have had people with $100 Casios say, "I have a keyboard just like yours". That's always a laugh, my Kurzweil as it is cost over $5,000, but when we see one of those little "craps" one of us will invariably say, "look there's a keyboard just like yours\mine".

Nevie, hope you are seeing all this.

Tek, I hope you see this as a friendly verbal battle.

"..for if you have a workstation you would have redundant equipment that was not desirable."

It's the other way around, your workstation's sequencer would not get as much use, if you're already using Cubase. Same with fx, dedicated fx usually put a workstation's fx to shame.

With a Kurzweil, you buy it because of VAST, not the sequencer or fx. Atleast I did. Pong too, I suppose.

As for the original question. I already answered it in my first post. Equalizer was just rambling nonsense (as usual)

-tek

Tek,

Glad to see you leave the political hot seat for a minute and ......but....
Sounds like you are arguing both sides of the synth/workstation thread.

And my first reply was the best description of all....a synthesizer has to be able to synthesize. That's about the bottom line. My Kurzweil, I have never even thought about categorizing it. It's a good keyboard, I use lots of samples, and can do what I want it to do. If I want to make music I can, if I want to make noise I can. But it is just a part of my equipment. When I buy equipment the only name that matters to me is the manufacture (example: Kurzweil vs Casio). I want to know its capabilities and what can I do with it.

Btw....On this thread I disagree more with Equalizer than I do with you. How about that?
(Are we having fun yet???)

Hang on a second! I was giving the guy a run down of some of the differences between a workstation and a synthesizer to help him make his desicion. I never realised I'd have a group of locusts coming out and saying crap like;

"I disagree more with Equalizer than I do with you"

Is this the new fashion - to start disagreeing with everything I say, just because of my political comment post???

The bottom line is, if you really want to get into a word game then there are certain people on this thread who have made several statements which are utterly WRONG. For example...
-----------------------------------------
"all workstations include a proper synthesizer" - by Tek

I say- WRONG! I own a Roland G600 workstation and it absolutely does NOT have a synthesizer on board.
------------------------------------------
Here's another...

"The term workstation doesn't have anything to do with realistic instruments or the fact that samples are being used." again by Tek

I say- Ok, smart ass, if that's the case, name me one single workstation that you can buy in the shops which does not utilise the triggering of onboard samples.
--------------------------------------------

And then, later on in the thread, we have people talking about "verbal battles" and "argueing both sides of the thread".

Listen guys, I didn't reply to the original post with the intention of going into some kind of childish word game. I replied to the original post with the intention of helping a fellow musician who needed a little friendly advice.

If you want to turn this into some kind of personal war, then please count me out. I've got better things to do.

-Equalizer

Some of those "awful home keyboards" have pretty powerful synths inside them. My PSR740 has essentially an MU100 locked inside - same (or similar) chips etc. (16 parts ony though and some of the non-XG instruments are different). It just doesn't have all the knobs and sliders. But with the right program on the PC via sysex you have access to 4 DSPs, each with up to 102 effects and 16 parameters per effect, plus all the drum kits and other stuff.

Eq, I've seen the G600 and it definitely falls under the crappy home keyboard category, no matter how much it costs.

About the samples. You said:
"a workstation contains lots of onboard sounds which attempt to replicate the sounds from *real* musical instruments."

True, but so does a whole bunch of synthesizers too. It's called sample playback. This isn't exclusive to workstations. The guy might not need the onboard sequencer or fx. Right?

Just look at my first post, newvie (heh a typo in your name?). Synthesizers come with all kinds of synthesis. Including realistic samples of acoustic instruments. You just need to decide on the extras.

-tek

Nowadays the term "Workstation" is different than it was back in 1992. I consider a workstation to include a synth or & sample playback engine, MIDI and audio sequencer plus a CD-R so an entire MIDI and audio project can be finalized on the one machine. I'm not saying this is better or worse than a computer based system, but for many musicians, not having to depend on a computer to produce a CD can be a huge plus.

And I have changed my mind about so called "home keyboards" after hearing the ketron SD-1 and Yamaha 9000 Pro. The new Yamaha Tyros also sounds very realistic from demos I've heard. As Pilot says, PSR keyboards are usually just based on current chipsets that are used in other products. I like the auto accompaniment feature in home keyboards which is really just a useful enhancement of a usually static MIDI sequencer. You can create your own styles which can make auto accompaniment a useful song writing tool. Unfortunately I haven't yet used a Yamaha MIDI sequencer that is conducive to creativity.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 11-26-2002).]

Tek- I am beginning to have second thoughts about you. Till recently I've held you in high esteem, but now I'm not sure.

I find it utterly childish how you have chosen to go down the route of slagging the gear I have like some kind of frustrated, failed bedroom musician.

The point about my "crappy" Roland G600 is not that it is good, bad or "crappy". The point is, that there's a big word written on the box it came in, and the word is "WORKSTATION".

If we look back in the thread however, we can clearly see that on at least one occasion you have declared (and I quote!) "all workstations include a proper synthesizer". The G600 (and indeed the Roland G800's and even G1000's) do NOT have onboard synthesizers of any description. I therefore conclude Tek, that you are in fact wrong. (now spell it!) F.A.C.T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Tek, if you had read my original post from start to finish without suddenly jumping on and typing out some jibberish in an attempt to prove to the world how much of an infinite source of wisdom you are, then you would have noticed that I had said (and I quote!)...

"both synths and workstations have presets which attempt to replicate the sounds of real instruments" -equalizer.

Still not happy?

Well, here's another quote from my original post...

"...the difference between synths and workstations seems to be becoming more blurred every year. Powerful instruments like the Korg Triton for example are often described as "workstation synthesizers" because they can pretty much do all the things a workstation can do, as well as doing all the things a synthesizer can do" -Equalizer."

Tek, I have proven to all onlookers that despite the smug facade and the CONSTANT attempts to dazzle us all with your knowledge of synths... when it comes right down to it, you really don't know that much at all, do you?


Tek, I don't have any interst in slagging your equipment, or anyone elses. Millions of dollars have been spent to ensure that there will always be a good supply of small minded consumers who, like you, who will always be on hand to do that at the first opportunity.

Nor do I have any interest participating in some kind of childish "I know more than you do" contest.

All I say is, let's simply wait and see who among us achieves the most success in the field of music... for the stage is where the real truth comes out.

-Equalizer



[This message has been edited by Equalizer (edited 11-26-2002).]

I didn't quote your first post in its entirety, but I DID read it. You said this too:

"it's generally agreed that workstations sound more realistic because of their totally different method of sound production."

Again, you assumed the term workstation has to do with the type of synthesis involved, which is why I had to clear that up.

Do you really think I'm bashing the G600, because you have one? Please. The G600 is a one man band, designed for the gigging musician. You could have done way better than that, if you're only producing music at home. Now, if you are a gigging musician, good for you, but don't try to tell me it's a workstation.

-tek

Tek,

In my opinion, the most important feature for any instrument is sound.

I challenge you to find any non-Roland board, sound module, or software package which has a better sounding grand piano preset than my *crappy* G600. If you do, then I'll give it to my nephew as an early Christmas present.

-Equalizer


[This message has been edited by Equalizer (edited 11-26-2002).]