I thought using an s-910 would hold me over till I see and play the Pa3x, but the main feature I require in a portable keyboard (loud, clean speakers)is MISSING. The speakers in this unit are so much softer and weaker than the PA800, I really can't hear squat in a club setting.

My objective has always been to hear the entire mix in my face and then, send an appropriate level to the house system, whatever that may be. (Usually my Bose) Right now, the sound is good, but I may as well have a silent slab and cart a monitor around. This is a drag - I've had that powerful monitor in my face for 20+ years now, and this keyboard's sound system just doesn't cut it. I'm forced to go to a separate monitor for my vocals, and I didn't want to have to do that.

As a singer, we need to hear very well on stage so we can adjust pitch, blend, harmony and a host of other parameters. Most of my work is in smaller venues, and the overall level is not that loud, but the vocals still need to be in my face for my highest comfort level. Monitoring through the house is fine in some places, but when the house has to come down lower than a certain number ... then my vocals get lost in the din of the room. I can't have that.

I'm not ripping the Yamaha - the sounds and patterns are good, and I knew the mic input was substandard when I bought it. I just thought that with a high quality outboard unit (TC voice live touch), I could pump it into the on board speakers and go right to work. No can do. In fact - the line inputs are not strong enough to handle the output of the TC unit, so I have to go into the mic preamp....and that's not the best case scenario.

I'm venting here ... not looking for answers, cause there are none.I just wanted to share a bit of my summer with the singers here.

On the bright side of summer - we had a professional photo shoot for my Mom's 80th birthday and here are my 4 beautiful adults! (not kids anymore!) I can't wait to see the real shot where they are looking at the camera - I took this with my phone.

Great pic!

Awesome looking family Dave. My mom will be 83 in November !

Btw.. I agree with your speaker review. The PA80 speakers are awesome. Reminds me of the Solton MS60 but a little better.

Mmmmm...well David, here are the specs of S910 you should have looked at really hard before purchasing...


Amplifiers: 12W x 2

Speakers:(12 cm +4 cm(dome)) x2

Expecting these "home" environment speakers to be heard in a gig setting is probably asking too much.

Your old PA-800 (the one with the broken buttons ;)) had nearly twice the power, and according to you, it just made the grade ("adequate" was the term)..

Korg specs...

Amplification: 2 x 22 W
Speakers: 4 Speakers (10 cm Woofers + Tweeters)
2 way in Bass Reflex Box

Looks like you'll be needing another go at the Korg stuff...perhaps another PA-800?

Ian

BTW...very nice picture.

Speakers on the MS-60...that' why I still use them (have two-continuous use since 1994), plus an SD-5 (same speakers/amplifiers).

Great family, "poppa" Dave.


R.

I knew you'd be sorry to dump the 800! The speakers are great. I wonder how much more powerful the 3x speakers are. Can anyone let me know your thoughts about that? I may just unload my 800 boards for a 3X. If they're 2x more powerful, it'd handle most of my jobs. I still love my K8's in stereo. Best purchase ever.

Thanx for all the comments on my kiddies - they are the reason I have to work so much!

Ian, In order to get double the volume from an amp, you need to increase the power by 10 times, so twice the power equals just 10% increase in volume. This scenario is no where near that, and the real problem is how the aux and mic inputs handle (or DON'T) the signals pumped into them. No question that the Korg is aimed at a pro player, and I will most likely find my way back there again, but so far - I have not seen or heard the 3x.
Funny, even my antique Korg i5s used to handle my harmonizer and the keys at a respectable volume for a monitor.

I will try a few of the little stand mounts to see if I can reach a happy medium till ... whenever, but I really am disappointed. Yamaha really took a step backwards with the speakers. Too bad ... they used to sound better.

That is very true. The volume level difference between 14 and 22 watts is quite small. Gotta assume the significant difference is more due to the speaker system itself.

I thought your buddy Don was happy with the S910. Didn't he warn you of the soft weak speakers? I would have thought a serious flaw such as this would have been mentioned at some point during breakfast. Anyway I can understand your frustration, but at about 1/2 the price of a Pro pa800, the MOTL S910 is a great deal, but can't be expected to provide as much on-board punch.

So what's your next move Dave? Do you still have the pa800?

BTW...nice photo, the kids look great, and look nothing like you. Happy Birthday to your Mom!

Yes, the speaker system also makes a big difference, and reading the specs should give the prospective buyer a good indication just what to expect.

I found it hard to hear the PSR speakers in a restaurant with low noise level, so even a medium loud bar would be way too much to expect the "home " system to compete with.

PSR on board speakers are for home use only.

Ian

Actually, the speakers work perfectly for the intended use, which is a "home environment".

To expect such small speakers, and relatively low power (easily read in the specs) to work on stage is going way beyond the keyboard's intended usage. I'm sure the person who sold it to you, if they were using it on stage, would have (or should have) mentioned it.

I've had zero complaints of PSR-S910 speaker quality and performance from home users.

You'd have been better off keeping the PA-800 and getting it refurbished.

Ian

Dave ... I have been here for ten years! I think I know what you are after. You like Korg ... yes?? Well the Pa3x with the PaAs is what you need. I would "EAT MY Pa3x" if you were not satisfied!!! The sound is "THAT' good!!!

Dave, your family looks awesome, and that's what it's all about.

Joe

Dave, I knew all along a Yamaha arranger wasn't going to satisfy you long, and that its the Korg arrangers that have those features so critically important to you :
TC Helicon VH, larger size keys, optional LH/RH chord recognition, and a cool chord sequencer to boot.
The optional must have $499 PaAS add-on speaker should deliver just what you need as an onstage monitor too.
I know there's a PA3X with your name on it waiting for you somewhere out there, so do yourself a favor and go buy it.
Please post a review for us as well.

Dave, nice group shot of your kids.
Who's 'who' in the pict? I can definitely see the family resemblance.
and have an idea now what you might have looked like with hair.

funnily enough the pa3x speaker system is a step backwards from the Korg PA1x speaker system so its not just yamaha that seems to downgrade useful features in their upgraded instruments

Very few manufactures actually make their own speakers for arranger keyboards; they just stick their badge on speakers of the manufacture that gives them the best deal. (Pretty much the same applies to stands and seats etc.)

Do a search on the web and you can usually find who makes them, and thus buy them (Minus the keyboard manufactures badge of course) a lot cheaper.

Bill

Ah, my kids ... my lifeline...my rocks to reality. Scott, all three girls are from Donna, my wife of almost 20 years, and a really wonderful woman, that I sadly, did not deserve. I was lucky to have had her for the time I did. Top left-right is Kelly(25)& Ally(18)Bottom row, Chris (34) and Kate(22). Chris is from my "student wedding". We were young, and in love and had no idea how the whole "life" thing worked, but we had Christopher and everything seems to fall into place. I have no regrets about my past relationships - they all played a part in bringing me to the place I am at now, and that is as close to the secret of life as I can surmise. Even my fiasco of a midlife crisis (now known as "the Miami hurricane") had a positive result - it led to a reunion with my Ex (Donna) that put all our loose ends to rest and allowed us both to move on with less baggage. She's happier now, and that makes me happy.

As for keyboards ... well, you're all right in your own way.
Yes, I knew the speakers were weak. (weaker than they should be even for home use, if you sing)
No, I didn't expect to love it or want to keep it forever, but it is a means to an end.
No, I don't have my 800 anymore - traded it to GC during their crazy trade weekend this month and it sold to someone in Mexico right away. I had the button fixed, and it was in nice condition for it's age.
Yes, I'll most likely want a PA3x when I see one, but I am in no rush. I'll just carry a monitor for a while. Summer is almost over, and things calm down for me after that as I get into "school mode". The kids are my priority now, and the kb will enjoy a rest until my Fall Saturday schedule starts in again.

I want to say one last thing, and I hope it comes out right:
I want to extend an olive branch to my neighbor from the north, Ian. We hardly ever agree, but that's common in an environment like this where emotion is shadowed by emoticons and type fonts. He's a passionate dude, and probably alot like me in many ways - maybe that's why we clash so much. I'm going to stop avoiding your posts, and try to be nicer. Hatchet is buried on the Canada/US border.


Many of us have had our scrapes over the years, but the thing that usually smooths things over is a quick phone call or a meeting. When you meet in person - it's often very different. We all sound more vain in type than we really are ... it's the nature of writing. We're in control ... in command ... no one to answer to. Well, I personally am exhausted from wasting energy on negative thoughts, so Ian ... if you're reading - Give me a call someday. 215-284-1328.
Better still - take a trip down south and check out my Phillies ... we'll be world champs again very soon! (It's ll be so sweet if it's Boston that we play too.)

OK .... off to a wedding. 100% DJ or trax today ... 25 year old brides ... sheesh.

Thanks for the kind words Dave, but I really never felt we "clashed"...I feel it is more like normal differences of opinion that is quite likely to happen on a forum such as this, where everyone uses different brands and different approaches to playing.

I don't consider myself a good enough player to be vain, and I'm just grateful I have a gift of some sort to be able to play music to the level I do, and to enjoy the benefits of an arranger keyboard, but I am passionate about the company I am fortunate enough to work for (that's just part of working for a great company), so I will always defend an injustice or a undeserved slight against them.

I certainly do not bear any grudges or ill feeling (towards anyone), as I consider that a complete waste of my precious time and energy, so I hope you see there was no "hatchet" needed to be buried in the first place, at least from my side of things.

There is not one person on this forum, or a former member of this forum, that I have any ill feelings toward, whatsoever.

I always speak my mind, and I try to do it as diplomatic as possible, and within the rules of the forum, and if this place ever became a site where we all agreed and were never "at odds" once in a while, it would be a very boring place to be, and it would not enjoy the popularity that it has developed over the years.

Keep playing and keep posting, and good luck with whatever instrument you decide on using.

Ian

Dave,
Gorgeous family ... If you would ever need to borrow a PA800 let me know. I have been using it only about a dozen times a year, that is of course, if you saved all your info to a thumb drive.
Ciao,
Jerry

At least the specs on the PAAS system for the 3X are not bad, and should give you the monitoring levels you need/want.

•Dedicated Amplification System for 76 and 61 key models.
•3 Channel Amplifier: 2x20 Watt (Mid/Hi) + 1x40 Watt (Subwoofer).
•5 Speakers: 2 Midrange (80mm), 2 Tweeters, Dual Coil Woofer (130mm).
•Cabinet: Aluminium case with Bass Reflex System
•Connectivity: through custom connector. No audio cables and no power supply needed.
•Dimensions: 992 x 173 x 137 mm / 39.06 x 6.81x 5.39 inch
•Weight: 5.7 kg / 12.57 lbs


Allan

Dave,

Just got back from four days of sailing, the weather sucked, and still does. Sailing home in torrential rain and thunder-showers is a bit intimidating.

The kids/adult-children are beautiful, and I know you are a proud papa.

The bad news is that you got old, and like most of us that have been in this business for more than a couple weeks, your hearing is probably shot to hell. It comes from all those "In your face" sounds at ear-bleed levels. Consequently, we, the males of the species tend to loose our high frequency sounds, while in contrast the females loose their low frequency hearing abilities. It would be a good idea to have it checked out by a reputable audiologist.

In reality, even if you doubled, or even tripled the internal speaker's amp power it probably would not make a discernible difference it what you hear at the player level. I do, however, know individuals that have changed out the speakers on the PSR-S900 and achieved incredible results. This, of course, is quite expensive if you cannot do the job without the aid of an electronics repair shop.

As you know, I rely heavily upon my singing--it's essentially my right hand voice during most of my performances. I stopped using the keyboard's internal speakers when I first purchased the Bose L1. I did this for two reasons. First, and foremost, that was back when I was still using a hand-held mic, and there was a problem with feedback from the keyboard's speakers that affected the entire sound system. When I dead-plugged the keyboard speakers the feedback problem vanished, my vocals sounded much better, both to me and my audiences, and for the first time I was hearing exactly what my audiences heard.

Finally, the keyboard's line-in, at least on the PSR-3000 and Tyros-2 is more than adequate for the output of the TC Helicon Harmony-M, which I assume is similar to your system. The only complaints I've heard along this line was from folks that have failed to set the tiny switch on the back of the keyboard to Line-In. That said, the Auxiliary Input, which is a separate function, at least on the PSR-3000, is just plain awful and requires levels much higher than Line in order to function. Some players have actually placed a small pre-amp in-line with the output of devices that would be fired into the auxiliary input just to achieve the needed operating levels.

One day in the not too distant future, I'm hoping we can get together again, drink a few beers, and maybe compare systems and setups. You have always helped me in the past, so maybe I can return the favor this time around.

Good luck old friend,

Gary

Thanx Jerry! I'll keep that in mind!
d

Gary,
Nope - my hearing is great. I was never that guy who sat in front of loud speakers - in fact the portable kb systems have been my monitor for most of my career, and they fire straight up and not "really" in my face ... just close by. I hear all those little annoying high freq ringtones that my students try to fool us "old guys" with. My trouble in monitoring is not with a loss of hearing ... it's the loud room noise that makes me have to turn down my main system to a level that is adequate for the house and acceptable for me. Sometimes, these are 2 different things! LOL
I require a certain comfort level and it doesn't matter what the main is doing, as long as I am in that "Zone". My summer job at the shore is such a hoppin' place, and it's so loud with chatter .... all I do is add to the din. I bought a small hot-spot type monitor to try tomorrow ... should be ok for the rest of the month, and then, it's a non issue.

I agree about the line in, but that still only gives you mono vocals, and forces you to go through the Yamaha preamp which falls short of my desires. It's an OK piece for a while, but I'm really getting itchy for something heavier duty .....
I wish the 3x had built in speakers. Sigh ....

Dave ... your children are beautiful ... I know you are - and SHOULD BE - very proud ...

PS ... hope your mom had a great birthday ...

Mom's day was great - we had a terrific day for pictures, and at 80 and 81, Mom and Dad are both hard to keep up with!

My 3k speakers aren't up to the job, I'm a fan of in-ear headphones.

I worked in a show band that used in-ear monitors, but in a smaller, more intimate setting, I feel disconnected with the crowd when I have plugs in. I'm still trying new things each night to make my comfort level increase.